New Delhi Finally Submits To Kayani, Pasha

[angeldemon_007]

I think the whole purpose of India is to "let us stay in Afghanistan after ISAF leaves, and to find out a settlement on Kashmir"

The only thing we want to make sure is Afganistan is not again used as a farmhouse for terrorism again....we already have enough of what you are exporting....As far as Kashmir is concerned i don't think we can settle this issue. I don't think pakistan is willing to give away and neither is India, but we can still ensure peace....

 

[pmukherjee]

I really don't understand this argument - if the civilian leadership is indeed as powerless as claimed, then they will not advance any position during negotiations that is not approved by the Army to begin with, and the Army will certainly have its own experts and advisers assisting the government to ensure that the talks go in the direction the Army wants.

So what sense does 'engaging with the Army and intelligence' make, since they are 'all powerful' to begin with?

IMO this is either speculative journalism or just an attempt to malign Pakistan and the Army by implying that the Army controls everything and therefore also possibly making Indians believe that the negotiations with the civilian government are pointless, and therefore give themselves an excuse to break off negotiations if they feel like it.

You are right, with regard to relations with India, the Pak Army has the final say in policy formulation. All advances or progress made during bilateral talks have to be referred by your government to the Army for approval. That is why the realisation has finally come to our government of the wisdom to interact directly with the Pak Army on bilateral issues instead of just wasting time by talking to the Pak govt which will then get back to the Army to get their stance, then get back to the Indian govt. You will remember how a lot of progress was made during Musharraf's reign because he was a single point decision maker representing both the Army and the govt.

No, the idea is not to malign Pakistan. How many Pak members here on the forum claim to have total faith on their govt? If Pak citizens do not have faith in their govt, how do you think another country will have.

How strong is your ruling party in your Parliament? Do they have the mandate to make important decisions? Will the decisions made by them be upheld by your Parliament?

 

[JayAtl]

why you are Pakistanis looking at this as some insult though? bottom line , who cares what path is taken as long as it spells a solution yeah?

 

[StingRoy]

I think the whole purpose of India is to "let us stay in Afghanistan after ISAF leaves, and to find out a settlement on Kashmir"

Whats wrong in that? If it leads to a resolution on the Kashmir issue?

BTW staying in Afghanistan has other mutual advantages to India and Afghanistan.

 

[Leader]

The only thing we want to make sure is Afganistan is not again used as a farmhouse for terrorism again....we already have enough of what you are exporting....As far as Kashmir is concerned i don't think we can settle this issue. I don't think pakistan is willing to give away and neither is India, but we can still ensure peace....

Afghanistan is not what you define it to be...

anyways Manmohan is a sensible person...maybe he decides to declare a no military zone for Kashmir... or decide to give the right of self determination to Kashmiri people. or maybe we both agree to give freedom to Kashmir as it always used to be !

 

[jeypore]

AgNoStIc MuSliM
therefore give themselves an excuse to break off negotiations if they feel like it.

And why not!!!

Are the Indians wrong in this presumption also, who knows whom is really controlling the great state of Pakistan.. Pakistan is itself has become a mystery, should it be an islamist nation or a shinning light of Islam nation!!! Anyways AGNO, forget Indian, even Americans are confused of how to do any relationship with the great nation of Pakistan, by the way, Confusion does not relate in a positive sense..

 

[Leader]

Whats wrong in that? If it leads to a resolution on the Kashmir issue?

BTW staying in Afghanistan has other mutual advantages to India and Afghanistan.

I did not pass any judgement,

 

[jeypore]

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[jeypore]

AgNoStIc MuSliM

The back channel dialog between India and Pakistan during Musharraf's tenure was in fact broken before the Mumbai attacks by India

That is so wrong, in Musharraf tenure the talks were still on, but the turmoil in Pakistan changed the Pakistan Gov't system of electing a leader, infact Zardari claimed that solution to Kashmir issue to India would be solved within months, after becoming the President of Pakistan, but the Mumbai attack changed the situation or stopped the talks, So back channel did not broke in Musharraf's tenure!!!!!!!

 

[angeldemon_007]

Afghanistan is not what you define it to be...

Well my friend i know it is not but it was and if taliban returns back, it will again become....

anyways Manmohan is a sensible person...maybe he decides to declare a no military zone for Kashmir...

I hope so....but it will not happen until your army agrees with this...which i doubt...and i hope i am wrong

maybe we both agree to give freedom to Kashmir as it always used to be !

Let be realistic, its not happening...its not just India....even Pakistan will not agree...

 

[pmukherjee]

That is so wrong, in Musharraf tenure the talks were still on, but the turmoil in Pakistan changed the Pakistan Gov't system of electing a leader, infact Zardari claimed that solution to Kashmir issue to India would be solved within months, after becoming the President of Pakistan, but the Mumbai attack changed the situation or stopped the talks, So back channel did not broke in Musharraf's tenure!!!!!!!

That is right, Musharraf could not continue with the negotiations because of repeated attacks on him by terrorists and then the lawyers' agitation totally hijacked everything as Pakistani leaders were too busy with internal issues to talk to India. If someone thinks that the talks with Musharraf were broken by India then he does not know what is happening in his own country.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

When the US diplomats visit Pakistan, they make it a point to meet Kayani and Pasha, because they know where the actual power lies. India should follow their lead.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Good move by GOI, but before opening communication channels with the Pakistan military GOI should show genuineness of its intentions by taking some solid confidence building measures, which should atleast include

1. Total withrawl of all Indian millitary from Siachen to pre 1980 positions
2. Immediate and total stopage of all support to terrorists and terrorist activities in Baluchistan.
3. share complete information about the Baluch terrorsits trained and financed by GOI and Raw
4. Immediate closure of all Indian consulates in Afghanistan and Iran encircling Pakistan.
5. Reduction in Paramillitary forces in Kashmir
6. Agree to discuss and resolve Kashmir problem according to half century old UN resolutions.
7. Reduction in massive build up of war machinery / slow down arms race in the region.
8. Stop oppositin of "Favourite Status" by EU to help Pakistan overcome Quake/flood devastation.

Unless these steps are taken the communicatin channel is not going to be more than tea/dinner gatherings.

 

[Leader]

Well my friend i know it is not but it was and if taliban returns back, it will again become....


I hope so....but it will not happen until your army agrees with this...which i doubt...and i hope i am wrong


Let be realistic, its not happening...its not just India....even Pakistan will not agree...

let their be a nationalist government in Afghanistan, and it can only be if external forces withdraw... Pakhtuns cannot be ruled out !! simple !

ofcourse anything would be mutual, and it would not be just an understanding between the governments, but also to fractions that derail the peace process on both sides...

the opinion polls suggest differently...pakistanies public is fair as far as polls shows, that it should be Kashmiries taking decision about their future not some sponsored government or so called seperationists...

 

[Leader]

When the US diplomats visit Pakistan, they make it a point to meet Kayani and Pasha, because they know where the actual power lies. India should follow their lead.

they meet because the two armies have mutual operational collaboration,