Muslims in South Asia that claim Punjabi/Sindhi ancestry

[-blitzkrieg-]

And Indo-Aryans are not Iranic but yeah close relatives.

nobody called them pure aryans.. i dont know such pure aryan do they even exist today?
but Indo aryans are at the end of the day a type of aryan..

 

[Malik Alpha]

Brother, your cited "historians" are no historian at all. Both of them are Islamic preacher of some kind, I can't take their claims at face value.

.

I understand but here is an assessment from a British historian
Christophe Jaffrelot says:

The Awan deserve close attention, because of their historical importance and, above all, because they settled in the west, right up to the edge of Baluchi and Pashtun territory. [Tribal] Awan trace their origins back to Imam Ali through his son Al-Abbas ibn Ali. Historians describe them as valiant warriors and farmers who imposed their supremacy on their rivals the Janjuas and other Rajput and Jatts in part of the Salt Range and established large colonies all along the Indus to Sind, and a densely populated center not far from Lahore.

and Bro not even one person in my family or my forefathers looked anything like Indian. That is not only about facial features but also physically we are stronger. Ive seen many Indians in Gulf countries and dont mind even Arabs can easily distinguish between an Indian and a Pakistani.

 

[Naofumi]

Ive seen many Indians in Gulf countries and dont mind even Arabs can easily distinguish between an Indian and a Pakistani.

between a Jat and an Awan? Do Arabs recognise Awans as Arabs?

 

[Cliftonite]

between a Jat and an Awan? Do Arabs recognise Awans as Arabs?

Coping mechanism as usual. Mental slavery.

"M3h dA arAbz cAn eaSilY di$tIngUish b3tw3en EnDiaNz aNd usS ArYAn PakIsTaniS"


The Arabs are the most racist people I have met. To them, we desis are all the same. Who even needs validation from those camel herders? This is Pakistani inferiority complex on display right here; depending on Arabs to give you an indentity, a badge of distinction from gangu desis, because you yourself are too self loathing to accept who you are.

 

[Azadkashmir]

Shows your typical classist racist mentality. I have no shame even if I were to live in a Kemari jhuggi. I don't take pride in living in Clifton.

This self loathing and racism is the basis of your identity crisis. Deep down you know you are a brown curry smelling desi too. We all are. Except for Pathans. You want to be Aryan and Irani and Arab sooooo bad because that is your coping mechanism.

haha curry smelling desi

 

[Cliftonite]

@Shantanu_Left in case you wonder why many Pakistanis like to bend over backwards for Afghanistan, this thread may give you some idea.

Why a 220 million nation, with functioning cities and provinces, bends over to the whims of 50 million banana republic with no writ of law? Because many here are still under some kind of an identity crisis; where the Afghans are seen as a more pure Aryan, a more Islamic race that liberated us from the ills of paganism. The mard e momins if you will.

Itni fikar inko Bangladesh tootni ki nahi hui hogi jitni inhe unn backstabbing Afghanis ki hoti hai. And until my peeps correct this, we will forever be stuck in this cycle of "I am more Iranic/Central Asian/Arab than you" dilemna

 

[Shantanu_Left]

@Shantanu_Left in case you wonder why many Pakistanis like to bend over backwards for Afghanistan, this thread may give you some idea.

Why a 220 million nation, with functioning cities and provinces, bends over to the whims of 50 million banana republic with no writ of law? Because many here are still under some kind of an identity crisis; where the Afghans are seen as a more pure Aryan, a more Islamic race that liberated us from the ills of paganism. The mard e momins if you will.

Itni fikar inko Bangladesh tootni ki nahi hui hogi jitni inhe unn backstabbing Afghanis ki hoti hai. And until my peeps correct this, we will forever be stuck in this cycle of "I am more Iranic/Central Asian/Arab than you" dilemna

This is a peculiarly Pakistan problem. A lot of Punjabis/Northern Indians also have Central Asian/Iran/Afghan ancestry if you include the Scythian Jatts, Kushanites, and other groups which settled in modern day India around 1st-5th centuries. Even in Southern, Western and Eastern India, you'll find a lot of these "Aryan" types. Who knows I might have originated in Afghanistan/Central Asia, whatever.

The thing is to most Indians, it doesn't matter one bit. No matter how Aryan we look. We have absolutely nothing in common with the cultures of Afghanistan, Iran, Central Asia (I have been to Uzbekistan, BTW. Beautiful amazing place, particularly Samarkand. But their culture is so Russianized. I don't find anything in common).

Here's an interesting fact. A lot of Hyderabad based Deccan Muslims in India have originated in Iran or possibly Anatolia in last 200-300 years, thanks to Nizam rule. Also a lot of Iranian/Turkic influence in food habits, culture. But almost none of them are dying to migrate to Iran. Despite the current persecution in "maqbooza Hindostan", they consider themselves 100% Indian. You just need to talk to the people from that region.

We do find a lot in common with the Pakistanis but it seems many of you guys want to move towards that region, away from us. Good luck, but that is definitely not our journey.

 

[El Sidd]

Permission to laugh out loud

 

[Cliftonite]

This is a peculiarly Pakistan problem. A lot of Punjabis/Northern Indians also have Central Asian/Iran/Afghan ancestry if you include the Scythian Jatts, Kushanites, and other groups which settled in modern day India around 1st-5th centuries. Even in Southern, Western and Eastern India, you'll find a lot of these "Aryan" types. Who knows I might have originated in Afghanistan/Central Asia, whatever.

The thing is to most Indians, it doesn't matter one bit. No matter how Aryan they look. We have absolutely nothing in common with the cultures of Afghanistan, Iran, Central Asia (I have been to Uzbekistan, BTW. Beautiful amazing place, particularly Samarkand. But their culture is so Russianized. I don't find anything in common).

We do find a lot in common with the Pakistanis but it seems many of you guys want to move towards that region, away from us. Good luck, but that is definitely not our journey.

And you know what's sad? After the subcontinent, our closest fraternal country is Iran. A great ancient culture. We alienated ourselves from them too, as you must have seen some of the hyper religious people here spouting venom against Iran and Shia. I think back and say, for what reason were all these endeavors?

 

[El Sidd]

The Arabs are the most racist people I have met.

Could have been a mirror?

 

[Naofumi]

This is a peculiarly Pakistan problem. A lot of Punjabis/Northern Indians also have Central Asian/Iran/Afghan ancestry if you include the Scythian Jatts, Kushanites, and other groups which settled in modern day India around 1st-5th centuries. Even in Southern, Western and Eastern India, you'll find a lot of these "Aryan" types. Who knows I might have originated in Afghanistan/Central Asia, whatever.

The thing is to most Indians, it doesn't matter one bit. No matter how Aryan we look. We have absolutely nothing in common with the cultures of Afghanistan, Iran, Central Asia (I have been to Uzbekistan, BTW. Beautiful amazing place, particularly Samarkand. But their culture is so Russianized. I don't find anything in common).

Here's an interesting fact. A lot of Hyderabad based Deccan Muslims in India have originated in Iran or possibly Anatolia in last 200-300 years, thanks to Nizam rule. Also a lot of Iranian/Turkic influence in food habits, culture. But almost none of them are dying to migrate to Iran. Despite the current persecution in "maqbooza Hindostan", they consider themselves 100% Indian. You just need to talk to the people from that region.

We do find a lot in common with the Pakistanis but it seems many of you guys want to move towards that region, away from us. Good luck, but that is definitely not our journey.

Subcontinent have only three main migrations, any other migration of Hephthalites, Scythians, Kushans never had any significant effect on the population.

1st wave : From Africa (70000 - 50000 years ago)

2nd wave: From Iran (12000 - 6000 years ago)

3rd wave : From Central Asia (4000 -3500 years ago)

The first two waves made up your pre-Aryan population including Indus valley civilisation, the 1st wave component is estimated to be 5-15% in IVC.

The 3rd wave was made up of Indo-Aryans who have branched out of Iranians some 1000-1500 years ago before migrating into subcontinent. Nearly, 50% of North Indians carry R1a (associated with Aryan) but maternal groups are native Indian for all population going back to 1st and 2nd wave.

what reason were all these endeavors?

La Ilaha Il Allah

 

[Shantanu_Left]

And you know what's sad? After the subcontinent, our closest fraternal country is Iran. A great ancient culture. We alienated ourselves from them too, as you must have seen some of the hyper religious people here spouting venom against Iran and Shia. I think back and say, for what reason were all these endeavors?

Having been to Uzbekistan, I would like good and close relations with Central Asian countries. Iran I am not that particular because of their religious fundamentalism. But a lot of Iranians you meet abroad don't seem one bit religious. I am also somewhat fascinated by Persian language as I speak Urdu fluently.

Yes it's all right to hang out with them, become close friends, trade ties etc. But that's where you draw the line.

But I do believe not all Pakistanis are consumed with that kind of fetish. They don't consider themselves anything else but Pakistanis.

Unless you have very recent ancestry in another country, you can't really claim that you belonged there. For example, you can claim to be Indian Bhayya as your grandparents migrated from Western UP. But your grandchildren won't be able to do that. Anything beyond 3rd or 4th generation, people usually forget where they came from.

 

[Musings]

Coping mechanism as usual. Mental slavery.

"M3h dA arAbz cAn eaSilY di$tIngUish b3tw3en EnDiaNz aNd usS ArYAn PakIsTaniS"


The Arabs are the most racist people I have met. To them, we desis are all the same. Who even needs validation from those camel herders? This is Pakistani inferiority complex on display right here; depending on Arabs to give you an indentity, a badge of distinction from gangu desis, because you yourself are too self loathing to accept who you are.

Nail on the head. Am amazed sometimes at the hero worshiping some do.
My personal experience with them round London and Marble Arch in particular - they are the superior being and the rest of the world is a 2nd class citizen...... unless you are of course white blue eyed female.....

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Subcontinent have only three main migrations, any other migration of Hephthalites, Scythians, Kushans never had any significant effect on the population.

Nyah. I'm definitely more Aryan than you. You are an inferior brown-skinned Desi. As long as your types know your place, we'll be cool

J/K, all Indians are the same to me. My criteria to judge people is not racial but along education, wealth, and other material aspects.

Judge and be judged, that's my motto in life. Wait I think I'll put that thing on my signature below.

 

[Cliftonite]

Nail on the head. Am amazed sometimes at the hero worshiping some do.
My personal experience with them round London and Marble Arch in particular - they are the superior being and the rest of the world is a 2nd class citizen...... unless you are of course white blue eyed female.....

Turkish people were so nice to me, as they are to Pakistanis. Nary did I feel a bit of racism there. Even though I stuck out like a sore thumb amongst the blonds and brunettes in Istanbul. OTOH, Arabiyon ki racial superiority hi khatam nahi hoti even though most are at best a shade lighter than us.

Could have been a mirror?

Nope. Unless that was a two way mirror and it was showing your face, that's highly unlikely. Btw that reminds me, you haven't called me a Delhiite in Karachi in a while and accused me of loyalties to India. Khairiat tou hai mere Sindhi bhai?