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London attack: 130 imams condemn attackers and refuse to perform funeral prayer for them

I apologise for calling your claims stupid, you have given clear cut evidence for your stance now and I take that back. However, I still disagree.

A beard is mandatory for a Muslim to have (provided he can grow one). Not having a beard is clearly someone's efforts to blend in with the kaffir, and multiple Sahih Hadiths state that whoever dresses and acts like the kuffar or attempts to emulate them (paraphrasing of course) is viewed as one of them. Yes, perhaps saying that not having a beard makes someone a kafir is a little extreme, but it's not completely without basis, where as calling someone a kaffir for having sex out of wedlock is.

Voting isn't trivial. Many, MANY Muslim scholars view democracy and voting as haram as these countries are secular institutions who don't rule by sharia. So, yes, according to many scholars voting is forbidden and can make you a kafir in practice (some do say otherwise though or give more lenient rulings towards voters).

All those sects that you listed have very haram elements as part of their ideology, again, calling them kafir isn't without basis, it's not even that extreme when you inspect what each ideology contains.

Calling the Muslim brotherhood disbelievers is rather.... extreme. Yeah that's pretty dumb. So I'll give you that point. Still not enough to call them Khawarij though.

As for the Lee Rigby attacks, again, not completely without basis because Muslims were siding with the non Muslims, despite the fact that Lee Rigby was a soldier and not a civilian. The term munafiq would be better, but kaffir is still appropriate (not saying these are my views, I'm just saying their viewpoint on this issue isn't illegitimate).

These guys aren't Khawarij. They are just very militant minded.
I don't want to sound controversial, but funny enough, from what I have heard from one muslim friend of mine some of the things you said here was exactly what he told me. So it seems some of these guys who commit these crimes do have a point on SOME of their beliefs. At first I didn't really believe this was true, but hearing it from you got me thinking.

Iran is not an Islamic country
There is no real islamic country in the world.

And those who let it happen need to be confronted as well. It ain't the Police.

Does the fact that I say that 9/11 was a false flag mean I condone those attacks? No. So in the same vein suggesting that there are traitors in the British state who willfully let these crazies roam around does not mean I condone these attacks.

It is fact that the these attacks further a dialectical Clash which is not in the interests of any save those who want Imposter Israel to become the next ruling state. There are traitors at the highest level of British State...

The Big Brother state will use these attacks to pass legislation to curb any websites that give alternate views on history, politics, economics etc, not just ISIS type material.

Oh by the way NATO has been supporting these sorts of terrorists in trying to overthrow governments around the world. Who says this? President Putin.
LOL I think we have already understood your point. 9/11 like many terrorist attacks in the West after that were false flag operations by CIA/MOSSAD/MI6 to create a clash of civilisation against Islam/muslims.
Same with the London terror attacks, British security services let these guys off intentionally to further their clash of civilisation. :)

Also there is no such thing as complete freedom of speech in the UK or E.U. Try discussing the discrepancies in the Offical version of WW II and see if you have a job left.
Lol You are funny.:lol:
 
Cos the Elites wish to further the Clash...
Innocents lost there lives and "Some one" got agenda fulfilled . So sad . But There need to be limit to every thing , not only in EU but in Pakistan too.
Few asholes not allowed to destroy image of Islam and future of Muslims in Western countries or any Non-Muslim country at any cost .
 
Someone pass this IP to UK authorities or pass it to me @waz this is how UK authorities keep silent till crime occurs " give free space on the name of free speech " the most hypocritical is that they use FREE speech benefits of a secular democratic society Earn rizq from that land than pledge to kill them as well.

Hahaha nobody is going to give you my IP you moron, and I hardly see how my comments make me viable for charges of terrorism as you stupidly suggest.
 
The image of Islam has already been destroyed by these crazies and that is one of the reasons why NATO has supported them along with strategic goals of overthrowing governments.
@CHACHA"G"
 
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While I understand that UK foreign policy often is not fair or balanced. Indeed at times it is grossly driven by self interest but what we must understand is UK policy is not going to change just because some of us might not agree. Majority of British are pro Israel and there is not much anybody can do about that. With any country you have to take the positives and negatives. Ultimately when you live in a country then you to have to choose between the country you live in and external parties. If you really feel so hard about something then you should leave and put your money where your mouth is.

And I can tell everybody here if UK bombed Gaza I would not like it but I would have to balance my loyalty between the two sides.

UK / Gaza - UK wins.
UK / Syria - UK wins.
UK / Iraq - UK wins.
Uk / UAE - UK wins
UK / Saudia - UK wins
UK / Turkey - difficult but UK wins.
UK / Iran - difficult but UK wins.

and

UK / Pakistan - impossible to balance. I would pack bag and be forced to either move to Pakistan or third country.
 
While I understand that UK foreign policy often is not fair or balanced. Indeed at times it is grossly driven by self interest but what we must understand is UK policy is not going to change just because some of us might not agree. Majority of British are pro Israel and there is not much anybody can do about that. With any country you have to take the positives and negatives. Ultimately when you live in a country then you to have to choose between the country you live in and external parties. If you really feel so hard about something then you should leave and put your money where your mouth is.

And I can tell everybody here if UK bombed Gaza I would not like it but I would have to balance my loyalty between the two sides.

UK / Gaza - UK wins.
UK / Syria - UK wins.
UK / Iraq - UK wins.
Uk / UAE - UK wins
UK / Saudia - UK wins
UK / Turkey - difficult but UK wins.
UK / Iran - difficult but UK wins.

and

UK / Pakistan - impossible to balance. I would pack bag and be forced to either move to Pakistan or third country.

Interesting...
 
The London attacker
E9QPuQ6.jpg

@Kaptaan @waz @mike2000 is back @The Sandman @Hell hound

There is no real islamic country in the world.
Yeah thats what the attacker thought too

I agree. However on this occasion, the Muslim community has done more than enough.

These attackers were:

- Banned from local Masjids
- Reported on several occassions
- Known to MI5 and Authorities
- Anjem Chaudhary was given attention by media, he did not have a huge following however was given that limelight, how? By excessive airtime, his crowd wasn't a lot because he had a lot of followers, he always stood outside a Masjid giving sermon on a FRIDAY, after Jummah when people are exiting. Therefore it hypes it even more.
- The Muslim majority condemned them
- The Muslim majority told them to keep away from their premises.
- Khurum Butt came on television last year via Ch.4 documentary called 'The Jihadis next door'
-Anjem Choudhary was given airtime on CNN referred as 'Islamic Leader'. What Islamic leader? This idiot is banned in Pakistan yet preaches his rubbish openly on the streets of UK.

This isn't a failure of British Muslims. This is a failure of British Authorities.
Anjum CHaudries are a British problem blaming their origin countries will not solve the problem they have to take care of the jihadis next door firmly who are their citizens

Khurram Butt, who doesn't know him? One of Andy's crowd. The only thing he was good at was declaring someone Kafir. His favourite words were, in order, "Kafir", "Murtad", "Taghut" or "Munafiq".
E9QPuQ6.jpg

He was a Pakistan hater rot
And go to Pakistan?
No thanks
++++++++++++++++
The mullahsaurases were always anti Pakistan
@Musafir117 @pak-marine @RealNapster
 
@Zibago I hate saying this, mate but I disagree. It is not a problem generic to UK. Irish terrorists, far right groups, drunken footbal hooligans etc are generic to these isles but emphatically not Islamism. This is a disease that has vectored in to UK through the Pakistan origin population. Culture, ethnic and religio co-partialities do not rupture because somebody movesto another country. You take them with you and then those are passed on to the next generation. Yes they do withe away but it takes hundreds of years and multiple generations for the full orgin source influence to be effaced. Just as example exactly how many British nationals land at Islamabad Airport? Exactly how many flights are there from UK cites to Islamabad? 95% of those passengers are first, second or third generation Pakistani. Indeed half of the members at PDF are American=Pakistani, Canadian-Pakistani or British-Pakistan including even the PDF owner. That should tell you the strong connection that exists between diaspora. When I see a British-Pakistani drunk and going around shouting filthy language I know that is British influence. When I see British-Pakistani going around calling for Sharia I know that is his Pakistani roots pulling on him.
 
@Zibago I hate saying this, mate but I disagree. It is not a problem generic to UK. Irish terrorists, far right groups, drunken footbal hooligans etc are generic to these isles but emphatically not Islamism. This is a disease that has vectored in to UK through the Pakistan origin population. Culture, ethnic and religio co-partialities do not rupture because somebody movesto another country. You take them with you and then those are passed on to the next generation. Yes they do withe away but it takes hundreds of years and multiple generations for the full orgin source influence to be effaced. Just as example exactly how many British nationals land at Islamabad Airport? Exactly how many flights are there from UK cites to Islamabad? 95% of those passengers are first, second or third generation Pakistani. Indeed half of the members at PDF are American=Pakistani, Canadian-Pakistani or British-Pakistan including even the PDF owner. That should tell you the strong connection that exists between diaspora. When I see a British-Pakistani drunk and going around shouting filthy language I know that is British influence. When I see British-Pakistani going around calling for Sharia I know that is his Pakistani roots pulling on him.
But these crazies are not first generation, and it would be the first generation who would have the most Pakistani influence on them. Many of these people despise Pakistan so then how could it be that their Pakistani roots are pulling them to this? They are the foot soldiers of the Anti-Christ and Pakistani roots (I pray) are not mired in this.
 
But these crazies are not first generation, and it would be the first generation who would have the most Pakistani influence on them. Many of these people despise Pakistan so then how could it be that their Pakistani roots are pulling them to this? They are the foot soldiers of the Anti-Christ and Pakistani roots (I pray) are not mired in this.
They merely reflect what is going on in Pakistan today. their action are congruent with what is happening in Pakistan. Yes, the first generation who mostly came to UK in 1960s are not involved in terrorism but then what was Pakistan like in 1960s? Was there Taliban? Was mosques being bombed? Were Shias being killed daily? I know from my dad that Pakistan in 1960s was on the whole a haven of peace and was far more tolerant then.

Today Pakistan is full of religious zeealots, rabid Mullahs, Taliban, sectarian gangs that kill with impunity. Even Pakistan Army has been involved in full scale war against radicals. Thus the British-Pakistani's are only reflecting what their brothers are doing inside Pakistan.
 
@Zibago I hate saying this, mate but I disagree. It is not a problem generic to UK. Irish terrorists, far right groups, drunken footbal hooligans etc are generic to these isles but emphatically not Islamism. This is a disease that has vectored in to UK through the Pakistan origin population.
You cant really blame Pakistan for failure of Britian in tackling 3rd generation migrant problems in Muslim Ghettos of Britian
You take them with you and then those are passed on to the next generation.
Those who have never been to Pakistan and only have a Pakistani nationality
Its not fault of Pakistan that more jihadi brides went from Britian than from Pakistan
Indeed half of the members at PDF are American=Pakistani, Canadian-Pakistani or British-Pakistan including even the PDF owner.
There is difference between social and economic background of North American Pakistani community and British Pakistani community i dont think you should put them in the same bracket
When I see a British-Pakistani drunk and going around shouting filthy language I know that is British influence
:cheesy:?
When I see British-Pakistani going around calling for Sharia I know that is his Pakistani roots pulling on him.
Or could it be that the toxic sharia culture of Muslim ghettos affect them more than their Pakistani roots?
Many of the British imams who support extremism are anti Pakistan they are more influenced by the new Ummah Chummah movement in western Muslim communities than the movements in their native countries
 

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