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London attack: 130 imams condemn attackers and refuse to perform funeral prayer for them

I was and am being perfectly civil, don't abuse your mod powers.

Funny you mention me being from another country, I was born and raised in the UK and have a British passport. So I am perfectly knowledgable about the place mind you.

Yes, those allegations were stupid. You can call them evil, but just because someone is evil and Muslim doesn't mean they are the khawarij. In order to be considered part of the Khawarij, these attackers would have had to do a lot more than just shoot people. They would have to consider people kafir purely for sinning too much (or committing any sin at all), they would have to be soft with the kuffar and hard on the disbelievers, they would have to have great Islamic knowledge and recitation capability, they would have to consider all other interpretations as of Islam as the equivalence of kufr, etc. There are a bunch of characteristics that need to be fulfilled. These men don't fit the label you give them because they don't have all the characteristics.

No you were not being civil and you are still being rude, and I explained to you why I gave him the kwarij tag.
I'm surprised that being born and raised in the UK you know very little of the aqeedah they follow. Right, firstly one of his family members gave an interview today saying how he was called a kaffir by him for not having beard. In actual fact the group believe that issues that are quite trivial take you out of the fold of islam e.g. Voting. As for sins it's much worse. The group also clearly states that Sufi, Brelvis, Shia and other groups are infidels. They have also made takfir on Ikwan and other politically minded groups. Butt is actually on record for calling Muslims who condemned Lee Rigby's murder infidels. As for being knowledgable not all of the Kwarij were, so that is not a key trait. They've always been hard on fellow believers, and as for being soft on disbelievers the Kwarij also fought in jihad.
Like I said before I've met these men and don't just put baseless accusations on people. If you choose to call that stupid then that's your unwise choice.
 
No you were not being civil and you are still being rude, and I explained to you why I gave him the kwarij tag.
I'm surprised that being born and raised in the UK you know very little of the aqeedah they follow. Right, firstly one of his family members gave an interview today saying how he was called a kaffir by him for not having beard. In actual fact the group believe that issues that are quite trivial take you out of the fold of islam e.g. Voting. As for sins it's much worse. The group also clearly states that Sufi, Brelvis, Shia and other groups are infidels. They have also made takfir on Ikwan and other politically minded groups. Butt is actually on record for calling Muslims who condemned Lee Rigby's murder infidels. As for being knowledgable not all of the Kwarij were, so that is not a key trait. They've always been hard on fellow believers, and as for being soft on disbelievers the Kwarij also fought in jihad.
Like I said before I've met these men and don't just put baseless accusations on people. If you choose to call that stupid then that's your unwise choice.

I apologise for calling your claims stupid, you have given clear cut evidence for your stance now and I take that back. However, I still disagree.

A beard is mandatory for a Muslim to have (provided he can grow one). Not having a beard is clearly someone's efforts to blend in with the kaffir, and multiple Sahih Hadiths state that whoever dresses and acts like the kuffar or attempts to emulate them (paraphrasing of course) is viewed as one of them. Yes, perhaps saying that not having a beard makes someone a kafir is a little extreme, but it's not completely without basis, where as calling someone a kaffir for having sex out of wedlock is.

Voting isn't trivial. Many, MANY Muslim scholars view democracy and voting as haram as these countries are secular institutions who don't rule by sharia. So, yes, according to many scholars voting is forbidden and can make you a kafir in practice (some do say otherwise though or give more lenient rulings towards voters).

All those sects that you listed have very haram elements as part of their ideology, again, calling them kafir isn't without basis, it's not even that extreme when you inspect what each ideology contains.

Calling the Muslim brotherhood disbelievers is rather.... extreme. Yeah that's pretty dumb. So I'll give you that point. Still not enough to call them Khawarij though.

As for the Lee Rigby attacks, again, not completely without basis because Muslims were siding with the non Muslims, despite the fact that Lee Rigby was a soldier and not a civilian. The term munafiq would be better, but kaffir is still appropriate (not saying these are my views, I'm just saying their viewpoint on this issue isn't illegitimate).

These guys aren't Khawarij. They are just very militant minded.
 
We need to expel these rats out of our ranks.

All these extremists need to be isolated, reported to the authorities, condemned widely, shunned from muslim social circles. Refusing funeral services and Janaza for these guys is a bold gesture.

The Muslim community in Britain needs to be vocal, visible and very active in leading the fightback against the extremism and terrorist scum.

I agree. However on this occasion, the Muslim community has done more than enough.

These attackers were:

- Banned from local Masjids
- Reported on several occassions
- Known to MI5 and Authorities
- Anjem Chaudhary was given attention by media, he did not have a huge following however was given that limelight, how? By excessive airtime, his crowd wasn't a lot because he had a lot of followers, he always stood outside a Masjid giving sermon on a FRIDAY, after Jummah when people are exiting. Therefore it hypes it even more.
- The Muslim majority condemned them
- The Muslim majority told them to keep away from their premises.
- Khurum Butt came on television last year via Ch.4 documentary called 'The Jihadis next door'
-Anjem Choudhary was given airtime on CNN referred as 'Islamic Leader'. What Islamic leader? This idiot is banned in Pakistan yet preaches his rubbish openly on the streets of UK.

This isn't a failure of British Muslims. This is a failure of British Authorities.
 
Khurram Butt, who doesn't know him? One of Andy's crowd. The only thing he was good at was declaring someone Kafir. His favourite words were, in order, "Kafir", "Murtad", "Taghut" or "Munafiq".

@waz I see you were also well versed with him, how many times did he use these words in a sentence? 10 times? Didn't he also call his parents Munafiq?

I apologise for calling your claims stupid, you have given clear cut evidence for your stance now and I take that back. However, I still disagree.

A beard is mandatory for a Muslim to have (provided he can grow one). Not having a beard is clearly someone's efforts to blend in with the kaffir, and multiple Sahih Hadiths state that whoever dresses and acts like the kuffar or attempts to emulate them (paraphrasing of course) is viewed as one of them. Yes, perhaps saying that not having a beard makes someone a kafir is a little extreme, but it's not completely without basis, where as calling someone a kaffir for having sex out of wedlock is.

Voting isn't trivial. Many, MANY Muslim scholars view democracy and voting as haram as these countries are secular institutions who don't rule by sharia. So, yes, according to many scholars voting is forbidden and can make you a kafir in practice (some do say otherwise though or give more lenient rulings towards voters).

All those sects that you listed have very haram elements as part of their ideology, again, calling them kafir isn't without basis, it's not even that extreme when you inspect what each ideology contains.

Calling the Muslim brotherhood disbelievers is rather.... extreme. Yeah that's pretty dumb. So I'll give you that point. Still not enough to call them Khawarij though.

As for the Lee Rigby attacks, again, not completely without basis because Muslims were siding with the non Muslims, despite the fact that Lee Rigby was a soldier and not a civilian. The term munafiq would be better, but kaffir is still appropriate (not saying these are my views, I'm just saying their viewpoint on this issue isn't illegitimate).

These guys aren't Khawarij. They are just very militant minded.

@waz And we already have our first defender of the terrorist.

As for the Lee Rigby attacks, again, not completely without basis because Muslims were siding with the non Muslims, despite the fact that Lee Rigby was a soldier and not a civilian.

I hope you don't visit the U.K often.
 
You do realise that I have met these individuals and debated them on their beliefs. They are not "stupid allegations" and I've dealt with them and others of their ilk for years. Quit having a soft spot for him and respect those who know what's going on, as quite clearly you don't. What's even more ironic is that you're sitting in a different country trying to tell me what's going on in mine.
On another note if you speak to me like that one more time i.e. I'm making stupid allegations you will not be posting here. Speak to people in a civil manner.

I don't understand why the authorities who have known about their extreme views and have been reported on several occassions failed to act? What were the discussions that took place, I'd be interested to know
 
I don't understand why the authorities who have known about their extreme views and have been reported on several occassions failed to act? What were the discussions that took place, I'd be interested to know
Cos it furthers the Clash...
 
I don't understand why the authorities who have known about their extreme views and have been reported on several occassions failed to act? What were the discussions that took place, I'd be interested to know
They need to change their laws according with current situation like America. They can't hold in or introgate any one on suspicious activities and keeping eyes on them 24/7 is difficult.
Suggestion! Find someone suspicious Deport him/her along with families asap.
 
now this is a kind of a news that will help those who always demand that why ordinary Muslims/ and or leaders font speak up or act against terrorists
londonattackersnew.jpg


London attack: 130 imams condemn attackers and refuse to perform funeral prayer for them

A group of 130 imams and religious leaders have refused to perform the traditional Islamic funeral prayer for the London Bridge attackers.

The leaders said they would not carry out the ritual that is normally performed for every Muslim, regardless of their actions.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ram-shazad-butt-rachid-redouane-a7774291.html
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there is some silver lining to this sad incident after all. while some Pakistanis mourn the fact that this time one of the attackers DID turn out to be a Pakistani... at least ordinary Pakistanis , leaders and Imams on the other hand have joined hands in commending the attackers.
This is very very very encouraging, nothing can help more than discouraging from the community towards radicalization and terrorism. I also read this guy was shown the door by the masjid and even reported to police.
 
This is very very very encouraging, nothing can help more than discouraging from the community towards radicalization and terrorism. I also read this guy was shown the door by the masjid and even reported to police.

But the damn police never do anything...
 
Stalin is the biggest contributor to modern Sunni Islam society since the demise of prophet Mohammad. There is essentially little or no difference between central Asia or middle east society. With the advent of Stalin, feudal superstition was swept aside.

The central asian Muslims quickly modernized.

Unfortunately with the fall of USSR and when USA came with her "democracy", radical Sunni Islam is creeping back. Democratization is Islamization.

Unfortunately the ghost of Stalin still lingers. And USA + Saudi will take much longer to bring central asian backwards.

Below, prom dance in Kazakhstan.
photo_16947.jpg

Wtf is this indian on about

Shoo nasty individual shoo

UK Pakistanis should next time not report to the authorities as it seems it's not enough
Instead next time should take justice in there own hands and
Murder these khwarij themselves

I read somewhere he wanted to kill his mother for his belief ?
Wow just wow

You have no evidence for him bein khawarij, please don't make such stupid allegations.

Cousin man
He said a Muslim without a beards are kaafir

He said he'd murder his own mother if needed

He killed innocent people

Now tell all what Allah swt says about killing innocents and mothers role in islaam ?
 
Great move by Muslim community . They killed innocent people , they don't deserve it ! Do they?
But deporting there families will not serve any good, especially when every one knows about these Terrorists and there believes . MAIN Question HERE TO ASK IS : Why British authorities did nothing when they know that much about these Aholes............
 
Great move by Muslim community . They killed innocent people , they don't deserve it ! Do they?
But deporting there families will not serve any good, especially when every one knows about these Terrorists and there believes . MAIN Question HERE TO ASK IS : Why British authorities did nothing when they know that much about these Aholes............
Cos the Elites wish to further the Clash...
 
Living in an era where Faith is dragged through dirt curtained behind politics, to fulfil agenda or secure votes is revolting. It really affects when it hits a place dear to you, streets you've walked, roads you've ran on, skipped, drove and played on. To see it in such turmoil is truly disturbing. One cannot imagine the heartsick sadness which overtook, the feeling of anxiousness and wanting all your close ones safe indoors.

Attending organised vigils, speaking to officers patrolling streets, skies, every inch of the city to ensure citizens safety, carrying out talks in Sacred premises - assuring the Muslim community will be guarded so no one is a victim of hate crime and not let current disaster disrupt spirit of the Sacred Holy Month Ramadhan, is immensely comforting.

A clear understanding is that the non-Muslim community as well as the Muslim community are equally afraid, an ambience of fear is spread. All I advise you plant seed of goodness and share a word of positivity - it goes a long way.

It is crucial that all religious scholars step up condemning atrocities committed in the name of Faith and there is a clear dissociation between 'terrorism and Faith' - when you rebrand the image which is wrongly smeared by media and the masses you automatically contribute towards changing this rhetoric.

As humans irrespective of beliefs and race - we are more similar than indifferent.

It is okay to switch off your televisions, lay off the social media to ensure an intact healthy mind.

All I advise is hold on to the rope of humanity with sanity.
 
Great move by Muslim community . They killed innocent people , they don't deserve it ! Do they?
But deporting there families will not serve any good, especially when every one knows about these Terrorists and there believes . MAIN Question HERE TO ASK IS : Why British authorities did nothing when they know that much about these Aholes............
Agreed with you, good move done by our Muslim community not to do the Janaza prayers for those bastaRd murderers.
 

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