Lets keep in check our expectations with the U.S.

[Winchester]

Afer the hugely successful visit of Imran Khan to the U.S. and the cordial reception he got at the White House and even surprisingly on the Capitol Hill, there seems to be a narrative which is being built about somehow Pakistan and the U.S. being strategic partners again.

As I said earlier, the visit was hugely successful because it put into grave the Indian ambition of isolating Pakistan. Over the last 12 months, the Indian strategy has been absolutely smashed by Pakistan.

But lets keep things in perspective. Pakistan is crucial in the Afghan withdrawal and hence important to the Americans in the short-term but the long term American goals in the region still remain the same. India remains the chief ally(henchman) for America in the region because

a) China factor.
b) India's size.
c) Size and strength of Indian diaspora.

Even if Pakistan helps out in Afghanistan, Americans would then move on to pushing Pakistan to be like what Egypt is to Israel. Hence, just like Egypt is Israel's bitch, Pakistan would be expected to not resist Indian hegemony in the South Asian theatre. This would free up India to just focus on China.

Accepting Indian dominance would go against the very idea of Pakistan. So lets get as much out of the Americans as possible over the next coming years because this roller coaster ride as far as US-Pak relations are concerned will continue and please make sure the economy is put on to solid footing and not be in need of IMF bailouts every 5 years.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

We should expect nothing more then regaining our lost influence in Kabul and while the going is good gran as much cheap loans/trade/grants we can get. But the eye should be on China as that is where the future is.

 

[Trango Towers]

Expectation. Zero. America is the enemy

 

[Kabira]

India doesnt want to take on China. They are buying S-400 from Russia and showing middle finger to Trump.

I have a feeling Trump asked Modi to help them out in Afghanistan and he backed out. US betting on India to contain China is stupidity. India isnt sell out like us.

Apparantly as per Shah Mehmood even if Afghan deal isnt reached, Americans will not blame us like before. I mean they cant blame us if Afghanis dont want to reach a deal. Pakistan should look for normal relations with US irrespective of Afghanistan.

Soon Americans of Pak origin will cross million population. This diaspora can play role in normal relations and getting rid of Pak-Afghan tag.

 

[Rank]

Afer the hugely successful visit of Imran Khan to the U.S. and the cordial reception he got at the White House and even surprisingly on the Capitol Hill, there seems to be a narrative which is being built about somehow Pakistan and the U.S. being strategic partners again.

As I said earlier, the visit was hugely successful because it put into grave the Indian ambition of isolating Pakistan. Over the last 12 months, the Indian strategy has been absolutely smashed by Pakistan.

But lets keep things in perspective. Pakistan is crucial in the Afghan withdrawal and hence important to the Americans in the short-term but the long term American goals in the region still remain the same. India remains the chief ally(henchman) for America in the region because

a) China factor.
b) India's size.
c) Size and strength of Indian diaspora.

Even if Pakistan helps out in Afghanistan, Americans would then move on to pushing Pakistan to be like what Egypt is to Israel. Hence, just like Egypt is Israel's bitch, Pakistan would be expected to not resist Indian hegemony in the South Asian theatre. This would free up India to just focus on China.

Accepting Indian dominance would go against the very idea of Pakistan. So lets get as much out of the Americans as possible over the next coming years because this roller coaster ride as far as US-Pak relations are concerned will continue and please make sure the economy is put on to solid footing and not be in need of IMF bailouts every 5 years.

Oo bhai sahab after 20 years of pressurizing tactics to convince Pakistan to accept India hegemony was a big failure of US policy ... Americans clearly realized that you can do anything against Pakistan or push them to do but u cant do anything with respect to India.. Pakistan has one policy for India and that is “don't give a **** about what India and its shitty force is” that realization in the western establishment is clearly visible so accepting the India hegemony esp a third class force who was not even capable to maintain deterrence on 21 century (27 feb was the best evidence) do u think Pakistan accept Indian hegemony??

 

[Winchester]

Soon Americans of Pak origin will cross million population. This diaspora can play role in normal relations and getting rid of Pak-Afghan tag.

The Persian diaspora, I think is bigger than Pakistan and hasn't had any effect on U.S-Iran relationship.

A million will not make a difference in a country of 300 million. The Indian diaspora is bigger and more financially upward.

India has already taken on that role. The Indo-Pacific term in the Pentagon strategy for the region gives us an idea about U.S. military plans in the region and Indian willingness to act as a poodle.

Oo bhai sahab after 20 years of pressurizing tactics to convince Pakistan to accept India hegemony was a big failed ... Americans clearly realized that you can do anything against Pakistan or push then to do but u cant so anything with respect to India.. Pakistan has one policy for India and that is “don't give a **** about what India and its shitty force is” thats realization in the western establishment is clearly visible so accepting the India hegemony esp a third class force who is not even capable to maintain deterrence in 21 century (27 feb is the best evidence) do u think Pakistan accept Indian hegemony??

Pakistan will not accept Indian hegemony.

I made the point that the Americans will push Pakistan to accept that hegemony hence there will be friction ultimately.

Remember the American encouragement for India to take the action on the 26th.

Americans wanted Indians to punish Pakistan ( failed badly) and then swoop in to act as a saviour. Same like the Americans did with Egypt in its engagement with Israel.

 

[Kabira]

The Persian diaspora, I think is bigger than Pakistan and hasn't had any effect on U.S-Iran relationship.

A million will not make a difference in a country of 300 million. The Indian diaspora is bigger and more financially upward.

India has already taken on that role. The Indo-Pacific term in the Pentagon strategy for the region gives us an idea about U.S. military plans in the region and Indian willingness to act as a poodle.

Because Irani mullahs are not interested in normal relations. Now can you say the same about Pakistani state?

India will have to show their willingness then because so far they have done jack shit for US.

 

[Winchester]

Because Irani mullahs are not interested in normal relations. Now can you say the same about Pakistani state?

India will have to show their willingness then because so far they have done jack shit for US.

Pakistani state is willing to help the Americans in Afghanistan.

Pakistani state will not accept India's dominance in the region which will cause friction eventually.

 

[Kabira]

In case Afghan deal is reached then Pakistan importance will increase in Washington. But if it doesnt then Pakistan should aim for normal relations. Without aid and military gadgets.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Afer the hugely successful visit of Imran Khan to the U.S. and the cordial reception he got at the White House and even surprisingly on the Capitol Hill, there seems to be a narrative which is being built about somehow Pakistan and the U.S. being strategic partners again.

As I said earlier, the visit was hugely successful because it put into grave the Indian ambition of isolating Pakistan. Over the last 12 months, the Indian strategy has been absolutely smashed by Pakistan.

But lets keep things in perspective. Pakistan is crucial in the Afghan withdrawal and hence important to the Americans in the short-term but the long term American goals in the region still remain the same. India remains the chief ally(henchman) for America in the region because

a) China factor.
b) India's size.
c) Size and strength of Indian diaspora.

Even if Pakistan helps out in Afghanistan, Americans would then move on to pushing Pakistan to be like what Egypt is to Israel. Hence, just like Egypt is Israel's bitch, Pakistan would be expected to not resist Indian hegemony in the South Asian theatre. This would free up India to just focus on China.

Accepting Indian dominance would go against the very idea of Pakistan. So lets get as much out of the Americans as possible over the next coming years because this roller coaster ride as far as US-Pak relations are concerned will continue and please make sure the economy is put on to solid footing and not be in need of IMF bailouts every 5 years.

Some words of wisdom however ask for more trade opportunities.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Excellent analyses by @Winchester,Yes this week was a whirlwind in DC,not just US-Pak related but all types of geo political moves and shifts regarding The Mid East and China,the main reason why the Americans are cozying up to us the Pakistani side has to be reminded that we seen this cozying up phase in the 60s it was with Gen Ayub over countering the Soviet Alliance with India,then the 70s came and ZAB tho having excellent rapport with Nixon but more flexible foreign policy relations sorta falter then 79 invasion of Afghanistan and Zia in office again cozying up by Washington ,new aid,new gadgets and again part of the US block and "ally" same post 9/11 all these times these were transactional relationships nothing wrong with that but Islamabad really needs to take levrage not lazily give Americans everything otherwise the same cycle of IMF loans,aid,and new gadgets for the military we dont need that,2nd we gotta look to aligning with the PRC as their right up our nose and have been much better ally for us than Washington but expand with middle power states like Turkey,Iran,Saudi,Qatar,Malaysia,Indonesia, etc but not get involved in their petty disputes as for Russia the statement I said about American policy makers perception of Pakistan earlier on should be done the same regarding Moscow

The Persian diaspora, I think is bigger than Pakistan and hasn't had any effect on U.S-Iran relationship.

A million will not make a difference in a country of 300 million. The Indian diaspora is bigger and more financially upward.

India has already taken on that role. The Indo-Pacific term in the Pentagon strategy for the region gives us an idea about U.S. military plans in the region and Indian willingness to act as a poodle.



Pakistan will not accept Indian hegemony.

I made the point that the Americans will push Pakistan to accept that hegemony hence there will be friction ultimately.

Remember the American encouragement for India to take the action on the 26th.

Americans wanted Indians to punish Pakistan ( failed badly) and then swoop in to act as a saviour. Same like the Americans did with Egypt in its engagement with Israel.

Iranians are lot less in number besides their diaspora unlike us is more divided into different opposition camps all of them hate the current Islamic Republic,example the MEK run by the Rajavi family does not like the Royalist factions of pro Shah emigres in recent times the US government has started to give tacit support to the MEK in fact de listing it as a terrorist group plus here in the States most Iranians are in the west coast or spread out Pakistanis tho smaller than the larger Indian diaspora you can find them In most of the 50 states in some capacity or sorts tho mostly centered in the Northeast,Midwest and more urban parts of the South however I think it's a change the Indians were more united and organized and were more bi partisan in nature whereas Pakistanis were more like Trying to try themselves to other Muslims here but I think with the hugggeeee rally IK had it energized the diaspora to do something of representing Pakistan however I hope it's not short lived

A million will not make a difference in a country of 300 million. The Indian diaspora is bigger and more financially upward.

India has already taken on that role. The Indo-Pacific term in the Pentagon strategy for the region gives us an idea about U.S. military plans in the region and Indian willingness to act as a poodle.



Pakistan will not accept Indian hegemony.

I made the point that the Americans will push Pakistan to accept that hegemony hence there will be friction ultimately.

Remember the American encouragement for India to take the action on the 26th.

Americans wanted Indians to punish Pakistan ( failed badly) and then swoop in to act as a saviour. Same like the Americans did with Egypt in its engagement with Israel.[/QUOTE]

Again yes the Indians in the west are larger in number thats their only advantage they have over us as for financially upwards than Pakistanis well it depends really the UK is different as more BritPaks came from the rural peasant classes worked the textile mills in the Midlands yada ,yada @Indus Pakistan prolly could expand on that I am.not sure of the societal aspects of Pakistanis and Indians in Australia but in North America I would say Indians and Pakistanis here are generally lower middle class to upper middle class we make about the same money and work the same kinda jobs the difference is priorities Indians here uses their size and clout politically and the post 9/11 environment to extract maximum benefits for their country Pakistanis on the other hand tend to focus more on other Muslims way too much but hopefully with IK visit it will energize the diaspora to do something I hope it's not shortlived

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2019/07/25/the-rising-clout-of-indian-americans

 

[Winchester]

@OsmanAli98

British-Pakistanis make up about 1.5-2% of the population there hence they will always have some clout even if economically, they are at the bottom of the barrel.

But in the U.S., Indian-Americans are not only numerically larger but also are more assimilated(politically/economically) as compared to Pakistani-Americans.

Indian-Americans are also mostly right wing Hindu nationalists and will increasingly at least try to appeal to Islamophobic elements to try to get at Pakistan.

This is just one of the factors that will drive U.S. policy in South Asia over the coming decades and not the only factor.

 

[Yankee-stani]

@OsmanAli98

British-Pakistanis make up about 1.5-2% of the population there hence they will always have some clout even if economically, they are at the bottom of the barrel.

But in the U.S., Indian-Americans are not only numerically larger but also are more assimilated(politically/economically) as compared to Pakistani-Americans.

Indian-Americans are also mostly right wing Hindu nationalists and will increasingly at least try to appeal to Islamophobic elements to try to get at Pakistan.

This is just one of the factors that will drive U.S. policy in South Asia over the coming decades and not the only factor.

I slightly disagree Pakistani Americans and Indian Americans are about the same in income as for assimilation and integration economic wise it depends where they are in the States or the community they are based out off plus both Pakistan and India are multi ethnic states so the diaspora has wide array of ethnic groups the core of the Indian lobby folks are Gujrati and Hindu I agree those Punjabi Sikhs are cast aside or just used as cannon fodder even with the lobby at the end of day Washington is becoming to understand it cant trust Islamabad or New Delhi as both capitals are playing to take advantage hence I see Washington now playing with both sides have Pakistan get US out of Afghanistan while try to get India to counter China for us Pakistanis instead of military equipment which will always get when they cozy up with us we need to extract economic investments like the Indians do

 

[Winchester]

I slightly disagree Pakistani Americans and Indian Americans are about the same in income as for assimilation and integration economic wise it depends where they are in the States or the community they are based out off plus both Pakistan and India are multi ethnic states so the diaspora has wide array of ethnic groups the core of the Indian lobby folks are Gujrati and Hindu I agree those Punjabi Sikhs are cast aside or just used as cannon fodder even with the lobby at the end of day Washington is becoming to understand it cant trust Islamabad or New Delhi as both capitals are playing to take advantage hence I see Washington now playing with both sides have Pakistan get US out of Afghanistan while try to get India to counter China for us Pakistanis instead of military equipment which will always get when they cozy up with us we need to extract economic investments like the Indians do

Mind you Pakistanis in the U.S. are doing really well but I have gone through a stat where Indo-Americans are the highest earning migrant group in the U.S.

The ultimate U.S. goal is to assign same roles to India and Pakistan in the region as it has given to Israel and Egypt.

I don't see Pakistan playing 2nd fiddle to India as Egypt is doing to Israel.

Of course we should have a stable economic relationship with the U.S. but my thread was aimed at those who see long-term strategic convergence between U.S. and Pakistan.

 

[VCheng]

Of course we should have a stable economic relationship with the U.S. but my thread was aimed at those who see long-term strategic convergence between U.S. and Pakistan.

As long as both countries can find common grounds in a few areas where their national interests coincide, it is a workable solution.