Last Air Battle On This Day

[Windjammer]

The last air battle of 1971 war between PAF and IAF took place on 17th December. The encounter involved a humble PAF F-86 Sabre against a Supersonic MIG-21 of the IAF.
Flt Lt. Maqsood Amir emerged the victorious pilot when he shot down the MIG-21, No C 116 through a missile attack.
The Indian pilot was captured after ejecting from his stricken aircraft.

 

[Xestan]

I wonder how they managed to shot down Mig-21s with those Sabres, Mash'ALLAH PAF pilots are indeed gems for Pakistan

 

[Chogy]

Those early jet fighters are not to be under-estimated when equipped with more modern missiles. They are subsonic, and it is true that a supersonic aircraft can accept or decline combat by using speed, but if the MiG-21 can be sucked into the F-86's environment, it will be out-turned. If the MiG-21 ignores acceleration or use of the vertical, it can be destroyed.

In the Vietnam war, the subsonic MiG-17's scored against mach 2 F-4's.

The reason is very simple. The wings and airfoils of those early jets are optimized for turning at slower speeds. They have a lighter wing loading, greater wing area for a given weight.

 

[Windjammer]

^^^^^^
Also, the pilot factor shouldn't be ignored. !
As when the tables turned, and the IAF Hunters engaged the Mirages, Honors always went to the PAF.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I wonder how they managed to shot down Mig-21s with those Sabres, Mash'ALLAH PAF pilots are indeed gems for Pakistan

unguided rockets and guns is all they had in those days!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I wonder how they managed to shot down Mig-21s with those Sabres, Mash'ALLAH PAF pilots are indeed gems for Pakistan

PAF proved that F-6 (Mig 19) could down FAR superior IAF Mig-21s


due credit goes to the pilots, and to the very powerful 30mm cannon

 

[LAKHNAVI]

PAF proved that F-6 (Mig 19) could down FAR superior IAF Mig-21s


due credit goes to the pilots, and to the very powerful 30mm cannon

i still cant understand why with such a '' super airforce''pakistan lost the 1971 war. they could have pounded us Indians the same way the americans did the iraqi's. i can only pressume two ways, either the air superiority theory of the pakistani's is all crap or the pakistan army was courageless ( remember 95000 soldiers surrendering at one single time)

 

[Kompromat]

i still cant understand why with such a '' super airforce''pakistan lost the 1971 war. they could have pounded us Indians the same way the americans did the iraqi's. i can only pressume two ways, either the air superiority theory of the pakistani's is all crap or the pakistan army was courageless ( remember 95000 soldiers surrendering at one single time)

Linking Land forces to air force role really shows your amount of knowledge over the given topic.

There was only one no 14 squadron present in East Pakistan which was destroyed.

In West Pakistan PAF pounded indian airfields and didn't let IAF strike western front , PAF in those days were more advanced as they had Mirage IIIs and F-104s on the western side where Indians didn't dared attacking.

 

[sohailbarki]

i still cant understand why with such a '' super airforce''pakistan lost the 1971 war. they could have pounded us Indians the same way the americans did the iraqi's. i can only pressume two ways, either the air superiority theory of the pakistani's is all crap or the pakistan army was courageless ( remember 95000 soldiers surrendering at one single time)

Dude there was no resupply to troops there in east pakistan and 95000 were against 1.4 (approx) million indian troops with russian and international support.....but the worst was banglis were against the army and you know when armies dont have local support no matter how strong they are they get defeated.....also against all odds pakistan army performed well see history from neutral sources some day

 

[Windjammer]

i still cant understand why with such a '' super airforce''pakistan lost the 1971 war. they could have pounded us Indians the same way the americans did the iraqi's. i can only pressume two ways, either the air superiority theory of the pakistani's is all crap or the pakistan army was courageless ( remember 95000 soldiers surrendering at one single time)

The PAF had only a single squadron of obsolete F-86 Sabers in Eastern Sector facing ten IAF Squadrons of MIG-21s, SU-7s, Gnats and Hunters.
Before being grounded, the PAF shot down 11 IAF aircrafts in dogfights including two MIG-21s, for the loss of five of it's own. However let me beat you with your own stick, the IAF attacked the out of action PAF airfield daily for two weeks including night bombing raids but failed to destroy a single of the grounded PAF Sabres. !!!!
But in process lost a further 17 aircraft to the ground fire.
Remember, there was no air opposition to the IAF in Eastern Sector after the first few days, yet it failed miserably to destroy the PAF.
Alas,the IAF performance can be termed as courageless, gutless and above all, sheer bad marksman ship.

 

[Last Hope]

I know the detail sof this war,
but,
I cannot tell it over here.

The book written by Air Cmdr Kaiser Tufail,

Great Air Battles
of the
Pakistan Air Force​

explains it all.

 

[Impasse]

Yes IAF performed very badly in 1971, all Indians should accept the fact.. I have no clue what it will be like if today we are at war.. Anyway..

Just accept it we didn't give our best or as windjammer said "IAF performance can be termed as courageless, gutless and above all, sheer bad marksman ship"

40 years have passed lot has changed, may be Pakistan has improved more or India has worked on all the odds.. Whatever the case is, after 40 years.. India is India Pakistan is Pakistan..

Thanks..

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

the indians were even using anglo officers in their ranks to fly their planes!! PAF wasn't

the F-6s were inducted in somewhat substantial numbers as the war was already taking place; while we received no spares or support for the western aircrafts

soviets were liberally arming you to the teeth; we received no such support

indians failed to get any form of air supremacy over the western sector skies......E Pak (Bangladesh) had one (1) squadron and those guys put up hell of a resistance to the aggressors even as their colleagues were being slaughtered by hindu mukti bahini terrorists


and again --- even though an important lesson was learned (promote synergy amongst 3 armed services) it is beyond idiotic for some nooB like you who knows ZILCH about military to linking land force to air force role.

30mm cannons on an F-6 wouldnt stop the enemy from funding and sending terrorists and sabateurs to Bangladesh. In retrospect, those 30mm cannons could have torn through flesh instead of your Migs and hunters; but that would constitute a real excess. Our men were ordered to withdraw, and they followed the order --regardless of whether they wanted to die fighting till the last bullet. I actually commend them for their restraint!

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Only 35000 of the 90000 were soldiers.Also funny thing iis tht IN couldnt even come to the shores of east Pakistan due to the mines laid by PAK NAVY.

 

[Impasse]

Every country should have dedicated air support for its army, in India it is not which is a major drawback according to me...