JF-17T - PAK-TURK Block 4

[Kejo]

Hi,

Christian europe---muslim Turkiye---christian greece.

Nato utility is pretty much gone---non existence---.

Greece has already been armed way beyond its defense equipment purchase capability---.

Germany, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, Spain, Italy and others would be very reluctant to openly support our neighbours while France will definitely side with the Greeks.

I'm not talking about diplomatic statements but rather about actual weaponry, ammunition and economic support for any side.

However, even the relationship between Athens and Paris should not be taken as granted although both governments claim otherwise, at least publicly.

Their alliance is based on a mutual defence agreement which expires regularly because it has a built-in time limitation. The French are not idiots, either. No one in Europe is going to fight Türkiye for the benefit of Greece. I believe that even our neighbours know this.

The truth is that the Europeans would ask the Americans to intervene on their behalf which happened in the past already.

 

[MastanKhan]

Germany, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, Spain, Italy and others would be very reluctant to openly support our neighbours while France will definitely side with the Greeks.

I'm not talking about diplomatic statements but rather about actual weaponry, ammunition and economic support for any side.

However, even the relationship between Athens and Paris should not be taken as granted although both governments claim otherwise, at least publicly.

Their alliance is based on a mutual defence agreement which expires regularly because it has a built-in time limitation. The French are not idiots, either. No one in Europe is going to fight Türkiye for the benefit of Greece. I believe that even our neighbours know this.

The truth is that the Europeans would ask the Americans to intervene on their behalf which happened in the past already.

Hi,

I am just an observer---. I see Greece's financial predicament---and then I see the high end weapons that they have---.

At the end of the day---Turkiye is an Islamic state---and europe being christian---would stay with a christian nation.

Just remember what I am saying today---. I am old---I may not see it---but you will---.

Since russia has been pummelled thru Ukraine---Turkiye's utility is gone forever---.

The US will trust its weapons rather than Turkiye---.

 

[SBD-3]

Hi,

Europe will arm Greece right to the hilt against Turkiye.

It all depends on how Turks behave with US. Greek Oligarchs have been the ones backstabbing Europe's cause on Russia by first allowing their ships to transport Russian crude and then selling them outright to boost Russia's ability to export its crude and earn $s.
Despite considerable potential for being a major defense supplier, Europe has always lacked the political will to take tough decision and, thus, has gradually become a priphary of US.
So if Turkey pushes the peddle on Israel (Eventhough this is a political stunt by Edrogan to keep his islamist vote in tact and Both Israelis and US would know it well), US might pinch Europe to distance itself from Turkey further. But given that Greeks are the opportunists member of European Union, I'm not sure that it'll be enough for Europe and US to generously share the best of their arsnel with the Greeks.

 

[Zarvan]

Hi,

The J-31 will be a 5th gen aircraft. This a must aircraft---.

J-31 is in its final stages of induction---.

For the Kaan aircraft---that would be a welcome addition as well. Kaan is about 10---15 years away.

The urgency that the Turks have---to have a capable aircraft---they would be working day / night to induct this aircraft sooner than later---.

It is not going to be one aircraft---but most likely both the aircraft---.

KAAN I won't say ten years but yes 6 years away. As for J-31 we need to get it with upcoming WS19 engine. I really hope that engine gets ready and is one of the best in the world.

 

[GriffinsRule]

KAAN I won't say ten years but yes 6 years away. As for J-31 we need to get it with upcoming WS19 engine. I really hope that engine gets ready and is one of the best in the world.

Kaan is easily a decade away. Sure you can find the timeline presented by the Turks on this forum. They need multiple flying prototypes and go through a very time consuming and rigorous process of testing and ironing out kinks, weapon integration, adjusting flight controls and all that jazz.

 

[Bilal9]

5th Gen is not 4.5 Gen with stealth shaping. There is lot more than this to be a true 5th Gen Qualifier and Above All the engine factor is also a big question here.

When you talk about "stealth shaping" that reminded me of the "Boramae" fighter (Joint Indonesia and S.Korea project) which had a first flight of this month.

I am sure the next version of JF-17 can be modified with stealth low signature "facets" like this. That would be a game changer even for a low cost fighter like JF-17.

Show me whats Pakistani in JF17? Any software or hardware? I never heard of any single indigenous system or thing in JF17, all chinese stuff. Even the material for wings n fuselage are imported.

If you had access to PAC Kamra processes - you'd be an instant convert. They are not simply screwing things together in Kamra.

But Pakistani AF (unlike chest beaters from a certain country) do not need to prove a point to anyone without context.

You will see proof during actual hostilities and battles.

 

[_killuminati_]

At the end of the day---Turkiye is an Islamic state---and europe being christian---would stay with a christian nation.

Catholics and Protestants aren't very fond of Orthodox christianity. In fact, some declare the Orthodox as eternal enemies. This schism has been a major factor preventing conciliation since antiquity, and a driving factor in antagonizing the Russians.

There were even multiple Crusades in the middle ages, led by Catholics. One that invaded and captured Orthodox Constantinople; second, led by the Catholic Teutonic Order against Orthordox Slavs in the Novgorod Republic.

Europeans may side with Greeks for beneficial interests but there is no mutual relationship between them based on religion.

 

[MastanKhan]

Catholics and Protestants aren't very fond of Orthodox christianity. In fact, some declare the Orthodox as eternal enemies. This schism has been a major factor preventing conciliation since antiquity, and a driving factor in antagonizing the Russians.

There were even multiple Crusades in the middle ages, led by Catholics. One that invaded and captured Orthodox Constantinople; second, led by the Catholic Teutonic Order against Orthordox Slavs in the Novgorod Republic.

Europeans may side with Greeks for beneficial interests but there is no mutual relationship between them based on religion.

Hi,

Sir---the weapons--. More advanced weapons they have, than the Turks---tells me otherwise---.

 

[MastanKhan]

KAAN I won't say ten years but yes 6 years away. As for J-31 we need to get it with upcoming WS19 engine. I really hope that engine gets ready and is one of the best in the world.

Hi,

You know me better----why argue. KAAN is truly 10-15 years away---. It -does not even have a designated engine as of now---.

10-15 years I gave for the JF17's---right on the mark.

15 years---mark my words---I won't be alive by that time---. So---just acknowledge me on that day---.

How about the J-10CP---do you think it is fully integrated in the Paf now---a 110%---? How about if I say not for another 3-5 years---?

Rafalle came as a fully weapons integrated aircraft to the greeks ---the indians---the egyptians etc etc etc---. Their pilots would take another 5 +++ yrs to be fully competent---.

Here the engine has to be manufactured then integrated---and EW package and then all brand new weapons

 

[Reichmarshal]

All above posts in all forum clearly indicate/prove that Pakistani engineers are not making further progress in making 5th Generation jet fighters, missiles and defence machines, etc etc, due to ""NO MONEY from Government of Pakistan"".
All money in 60 years went in to pockets of politicians, army generals and court judges.
When poor, innocent Pakistani nation will get rid of all those corrupt , bastards, money laundering , ghaddaar elements ??

Not just them corruption is wide spread n is now taken the form of a pandemic......from the lowest levels to the highest n not just the highest

 

[Silicon0000]

When you talk about "stealth shaping" that reminded me of the "Boramae" fighter (Joint Indonesia and S.Korea project) had a first flight of this month.

I am sure the next version of JF-17 can be modified with stealth low signature "facets" like this. That would be a game changer even for a low cost fighter like JF-17.

If you had access to PAC Kamra processes - you'd be an instant convert. They are not simply screwing things together in Kamra.

But Pakistani AF (unlike chest beaters from a certain country) do not need to prove a point to anyone without context.

You will see proof during actual hostilities and battles.

May be you are right but I don't see JF17 next batch with stealth shaping, some small tweeks are possible if there is any block-4 but aiming Boramae is like making new jet (atleast in term of efforts, cost and time) which doesn't seems to be a logical thing to go for. Also the role JF17 play is not favor that. I don't see extensive changes in JF17 in term of shaping but again that's just my personal view.

 

[xbat]

for the people who thinks JF17 an option for Turkey,

JF17 uses RD33 russian engine. if turkey choses that aircraft Turkey has to get approve from Russia(?), china(?) and PAK(not problem).

as you know we flew our HURJET which is the same class with JF 17, if we get RD33 we can make our light fighter too (at worst case scenario ). we have an AESA radar at testing stage, air to air missiles at serial production stage and many things.

there is no possibility to get JF17, we have 238 F16 AND 20+ f4 in service, hundred of UAVs etc.

thanks

 

[Goku-kun]

Kaan is easily a decade away. Sure you can find the timeline presented by the Turks on this forum. They need multiple flying prototypes and go through a very time consuming and rigorous process of testing and ironing out kinks, weapon integration, adjusting flight controls and all that jazz.

So what, we procure every weapon system depending on when india uses the same category of weapon so even if KAAN is a decade away than india's AMCA is 10-15 years away so we can relax as india won't be having a 5th Gen. platform too and by than KAAN would be more matured too.
No doubt that Chinese weapons are advanced too but we shouldn't be relying on China everytime.

for the people who thinks JF17 an option for Turkey,

JF17 uses RD33 russian engine. if turkey choses that aircraft Turkey has to get approve from Russia(?), china(?) and PAK(not problem).

as you know we flew our HURJET which is the same class with JF 17, if we get RD33 we can make our light fighter too (at worst case scenario ). we have an AESA radar at testing stage, air to air missiles at serial production stage and many things.

there is no possibility to get JF17, we have 238 F16 AND 20+ f4 in service, hundred of UAVs etc.

thanks

NOT in the same class as Thunder but it would be more appropriate to say that it is a proper LIFT platform and compareable to China's L-15.

 

[SBD-3]

Those F-16s are aging and even the Ozgur update will not extend their life indefinitely. Fifth Gen fighters are not meant to be inducted in great numbers (unless the procurement guys are really dumb), so Turkey will need a 4.5th gen workhorse in good numbers to replace F-4s and then , in time, the F-16s. Greeks have gained a definite edge of TurAF in terms of platforms (F-16Vs and Rafales). Turks can't simply put all their eggs in KAAN's basket due to its cost and specialized role. Even the Unmanned platforms have their limitations against the Frontline fighters. So they need a potent platform to reduce the disparity with the Greeks. Therefore, if the Germans deny their request, they might even bargain with the Swedes as "Grippens for NATO" or even go for J-10s from China, you never know.

Grippens for NATO in works

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1729591171792474139

 

[Mrc]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1733333929049170054