JF-17T - PAK-TURK Block 4

[Manidabest]

So to fill the gap, if in most likely scenario of euro fighter being blocked by one country or other, the best and sanction free option they have is JF17 B3

not necessarily they do have cash constraint but still they have enough to buy better quality product from various other sources

 

[Mrc]

not necessarily they do have cash constraint but still they have enough to buy better quality product from various other sources

Namely???

Since you seems to have full grasp of matter you probably know the better alternatives available to them... So kindly list them

BTW Turkey does operate a large fleet of super mashak for your knowledge if you did not know it

 

[TheSolution]

Than why buying euro fighter? Build an own one

Stop man, they are literally building a 5th generation fighter...

 

[Mrc]

Stop man, they are literally building a 5th generation fighter...

Than build one why buying euro fighter?

No body is saying they are not building 5th gen but they seems to have requirement for 4th gen

Euro fighter is an early 4th gen if it comes with aesa will be still inferior to j10 CE, so why not JF17??
U can argue Russian vs European engine size class difference but what argument you are putting is beyond me

 

[SBD-3]

Man these posts from Pakistanis make me laugh, so devoid of reality. Most living in an illusion. Like whats in JF17 that Turkey cannot build itself? Why would they even need Pakistani help? They r building a 5th gen fighter so whats a 4th gen fighter to them.
Also if they required anything from jf17 or anything else, they ll go to china and not beggaristan, even in JF17 there is nothing Pakistani, not an iota of Pakistani indigenous system lolz, so why the hell would they even think of cooperation? All Pakistan does is assemble the plane and that too provided by china and trained by china.
Looking at how Pakistanis work, how Pakistani bureaucracy works and how corrupt everything is, would any of u as a country ever consider working with Pakistan? Lolz i doubt anyone would.

Turkey is benefitting from the technical telant coming back and delivering but given the current economic situation in Turkey, I don't know how long they'll be able to keep up. Pakistanis never really thought of developing the necessary technical talent pool by enhancing mutual cooperation with the friendly countries. The constant economic decline has led to the errosion of such talent pool as people look outward rather than to stay in Pakistan. No investments were made in developing strong involvement of universities to constantly deliver the human resource for innovation. Business enviornament and the opaque and broadly non-competitive nature of military acquisitions have kept private sector solution from development. Military has promoted investments in non-productive business sectors like Real Estate has also kept the industrial base from florishing. Japan, China and Korea serve as good examples where stronger industrial base led to the development of top quality military technology.
In my personal view, a better investment for PAF would have been KAI's KF-21 Boramae after the Indonesians were looking to exit the program. Koreans have built a remarkable reputation in delivering high quality stuff.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Than build one why buying euro fighter?

No body is saying they are not building 5th gen but they seems to have requirement for 4th gen

Euro fighter is an early 4th gen if it comes with aesa will be still inferior to j10 CE, so why not JF17??
U can argue Russian vs European engine size class difference but what argument you are putting is beyond me

Wait what? Eurofighter is inferior to J-10C? What makes you say that lol

 

[Mrc]

Wait what? Eurofighter is inferior to J-10C? What makes you say that lol

Most don't have an aesa, only recently they qualified an aesa radar

AESA Radars Set To Bolster Eurofighter Capability | Aviation Week Network

The integration of new radars into the Eurofighter Typhoon looks set to bring a step change in the platform’s capability.

aviationweek.com

Date of publication

 

[GriffinsRule]

Most don't have an aesa, only recently they qualified an aesa radar

AESA Radars Set To Bolster Eurofighter Capability | Aviation Week Network

The integration of new radars into the Eurofighter Typhoon looks set to bring a step change in the platform’s capability.

aviationweek.com

Date of publication

So you think Turkey would buy first gen Typhoons instead of the latest ones if they had to?

 

[Mrc]

So you think Turkey would buy first gen Typhoons instead of the latest ones if they had to?

Yes they will buy latest ones
Given that UK typhoons are all set to get aesa by 2030, I m just concerned about duration of the deal

 

[SBD-3]

Than build one why buying euro fighter?

No body is saying they are not building 5th gen but they seems to have requirement for 4th gen

Euro fighter is an early 4th gen if it comes with aesa will be still inferior to j10 CE, so why not JF17??
U can argue Russian vs European engine size class difference but what argument you are putting is beyond me

That's not how things work. Building a 5th Gen Fighter can take years (on average more than a decade). Look at Chinese who is still tweaking their J-20 even though it has been more than a decade since it made it's first flight. J-31 is another story.
Eurofighter is a potent enough airframe that it is in service with around 9 nations around the world. J-10 is only being operated by Chinese and Pakistanis. So you can't say that J-10 is certainly superior to Typhoon. PAF never evaluated the J-10 in a competitive manner against other platforms like Rafale, F-16 V or Typhoon before the procurement.

All above posts in all forum clearly indicate/prove that Pakistani engineers are not making further progress in making 5th Generation jet fighters, missiles and defence machines, etc etc, due to ""NO MONEY from Government of Pakistan"".
All money in 60 years went in to pockets of politicians, army generals and court judges.
When poor, innocent Pakistani nation will get rid of all those corrupt , bastards, money laundering , ghaddaar elements ??

Politicians, Generals and Judges aren't different from the institutions. Even right now, the culture is pretty much the same and the culture promotes abusing institutional authority for personal gains. Too many Politicos, Generals and judges have abused their power that it has become an acceptable social norm to abuse one's authority. Only 1.36% of the people from total population like to file their taxes and rest thrive on one way or another to extort resources or evade the taxes.

 

[Mrc]

That's not how things work. Building a 5th Gen Fighter can take years (on average more than a decade). Look at Chinese who is still tweaking their J-20 even though it has been more than a decade since it made it's first flight. J-31 is another story.
Eurofighter is a potent enough airframe that it is in service with around 9 nations around the world. J-10 is only being operated by Chinese and Pakistanis. So you can't say that J-10 is certainly superior to Typhoon. PAF never evaluated the J-10 in a competitive manner against other platforms like Rafale, F-16 V or Typhoon before the procurement.


Politicians, Generals and Judges aren't different from the institutions. Even right now, the culture is pretty much the same and the culture promotes abusing institutional authority for personal gains. Too many Politicos, Generals and judges have abused their power that it has become an acceptable social norm to abuse one's authority. Only 1.36% of the people from total population like to file their taxes and rest thrive on one way or another to extort resources or evade the taxes.

They already have 100s of f16s. I m guessing they need a heavy hitter rather than a fighter

J10 is called 4.5 gen for a reason BTW

 

[SBD-3]

They already have 100s of f16s. I m guessing they need a heavy hitter rather than a fighter

J10 is called 4.5 gen for a reason BTW

Those F-16s are aging and even the Ozgur update will not extend their life indefinitely. Fifth Gen fighters are not meant to be inducted in great numbers (unless the procurement guys are really dumb), so Turkey will need a 4.5th gen workhorse in good numbers to replace F-4s and then , in time, the F-16s. Greeks have gained a definite edge of TurAF in terms of platforms (F-16Vs and Rafales). Turks can't simply put all their eggs in KAAN's basket due to its cost and specialized role. Even the Unmanned platforms have their limitations against the Frontline fighters. So they need a potent platform to reduce the disparity with the Greeks. Therefore, if the Germans deny their request, they might even bargain with the Swedes as "Grippens for NATO" or even go for J-10s from China, you never know.

 

[MastanKhan]

Those F-16s are aging and even the Ozgur update will not extend their life indefinitely. Fifth Gen fighters are not meant to be inducted in great numbers (unless the procurement guys are really dumb), so Turkey will need a 4.5th gen workhorse in good numbers to replace F-4s and then , in time, the F-16s. Greeks have gained a definite edge of TurAF in terms of platforms (F-16Vs and Rafales). Turks can't simply put all their eggs in KAAN's basket due to its cost and specialized role. Even the Unmanned platforms have their limitations against the Frontline fighters. So they need a potent platform to reduce the disparity with the Greeks. Therefore, if the Germans deny their request, they might even bargain with the Swedes as "Grippens for NATO" or even go for J-10s from China, you never know.

Hi,

Europe will arm Greece right to the hilt against Turkiye.

 

[Kejo]

Hi,

Europe will arm Greece right to the hilt against Turkiye.

I doubt that.

 

[MastanKhan]

I doubt that.

Hi,

Christian europe---muslim Turkiye---christian greece.

Nato utility is pretty much gone---non existence---.

Greece has already been armed way beyond its defense equipment purchase capability---.