JF-17's various initial design phases & design resemblances

[gambit]

hey
No, they did not copy JF-17 because F/A-18 is an older A/C than JF-17
However F-15 has a lot of copied features and technologies from Mig-25

Not true. The father of the MIG-25 and F-15 is the North American A-5 Vigilante.

 

[Manticore]

There is an article I saw recently but I think from 2010. The FC-1 project came/evolved from the Super-7 project but the FC-1 fighter did not come/evolve from the Super-7.

I hope that is clear enough

That was due to the change in basic requirements of the PAF from a mere 3rd gen fighter to a 4rth gen fighter. It further evolved during protype stages.

Guys please check out the first page of this thread

 

[ebrahym]

I don't why you starting comparing a Twin engine fighter jet with a single engine jet

no one is comparing its just their resembelance

Just like you or all of you dont get a joke

Sarcasm is a two way sword

Then compare IAR-95 Sprey airframe, you would find the striking resemblance with the JF-17

as a matter of face JFT resembles many aircrafts
hope it outmatches them in performance

Not true. The father of the MIG-25 and F-15 is the North American A-5 Vigilante.

but i m pretty sure mig-25 came early than f-15

 

[gambit]

but i m pretty sure mig-25 came early than f-15

That is true, but that is not proof that the F-15 came from the MIG-25 in any way. You have to have some knowledge of how aircrafts are designed and how long it takes to field an aircraft, from conception to mass production.

The average time span from conception to mass production is about 10 yrs. But instead of mass production, let us use first flight as the first flight is usually the final proof of concept and to convince the government that the aircraft is beyond airworthy.

The MIG-25's first fight was in Mar 1964. The F-15's first flight was in Jul 1972. Essentially, both aircrafts were under parallel development. Just because the MIG-25's first flight was earlier than the F-15's, that does not mean we knew about it EXACTLY on March 1964.

First flights usually do not have 'Top Gun' style maneuvers. First flights are always to prove the airframe's airworthiness and that it can perform basic maneuvers such as aileron rolls, touch and go, and so on. No one chases the aircraft to simulate combat. After the official first flight, the aircraft would be take apart, not completely, and examined for any distress. Any panels that are not in place, any airframe cracks, etc. From first flight, it can take several yrs towards mass production.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/mig-25.htm

Development of the MiG-25, took several more years to complete.The new aircraft was first shown to the public at Domodedovo air show on 09 July 1967.

The MIG-25 was finally 'introduced', meaning make available for the military, in 1970. We knew about the MIG-25 before 1970, but not in 1964. As much as I believe in US technological prowess, there is no way the US could have developed the F-15 from the MIG-25 in a couple of yrs -- just from a 2D satellite photo.

 

[ebrahym]

That is true, but that is not proof that the F-15 came from the MIG-25 in any way. You have to have some knowledge of how aircrafts are designed and how long it takes to field an aircraft, from conception to mass production.

The average time span from conception to mass production is about 10 yrs. But instead of mass production, let us use first flight as the first flight is usually the final proof of concept and to convince the government that the aircraft is beyond airworthy.

The MIG-25's first fight was in Mar 1964. The F-15's first flight was in Jul 1972. Essentially, both aircrafts were under parallel development. Just because the MIG-25's first flight was earlier than the F-15's, that does not mean we knew about it EXACTLY on March 1964.

First flights usually do not have 'Top Gun' style maneuvers. First flights are always to prove the airframe's airworthiness and that it can perform basic maneuvers such as aileron rolls, touch and go, and so on. No one chases the aircraft to simulate combat. After the official first flight, the aircraft would be take apart, not completely, and examined for any distress. Any panels that are not in place, any airframe cracks, etc. From first flight, it can take several yrs towards mass production.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/mig-25.htm
The MIG-25 was finally 'introduced', meaning make available for the military, in 1970. We knew about the MIG-25 before 1970, but not in 1964. As much as I believe in US technological prowess, there is no way the US could have developed the F-15 from the MIG-25 in a couple of yrs -- just from a 2D satellite photo

it was just a minute observation
why do people become so dramatic and start playing expert expert
this article is about concept evolution sir
and FYI i dont thing mig-25 was a evolution from A-5 but F-15 certainly was
nevertheless this is what they call concept evolution and that is what is under disscusion sir

 

[gambit]

it was just a minute observation
why do people become so dramatic and start playing expert expert
this article is about concept evolution sir
and FYI i dont thing mig-25 was a evolution from A-5 but F-15 certainly was
nevertheless this is what they call concept evolution and that is what is under disscusion sir

If you call what I posted as 'dramatic' then the problem is with you, friend.

What I posted, most people would call it useful and enlightening information. I gave insights from personal experience in aviation, in and out of the military, for nearly 19 yrs worth. I was not insulting or condescending to you. I also have instructor experience so I explained what I know and understand in a neutral manner to you. Relax and enjoy the show.

 

[ebrahym]

If you call what I posted as 'dramatic' then the problem is with you, friend.

What I posted, most people would call it useful and enlightening information. I gave insights from personal experience in aviation, in and out of the military, for nearly 19 yrs worth. I was not insulting or condescending to you. I also have instructor experience so I explained what I know and understand in a neutral manner to you. Relax and enjoy the show.

lets not goand ruin the thread
you can visit my profile page and hit ignore

 

[Djinn]

They have legal restrictions to share any technology with China and company

A convenient excuse to not share with Pakistan either, whereas Israel gives China whatever it wants.

 

[Royal Blue007]

A convenient excuse to not share with Pakistan either, whereas Israel gives China whatever it wants.

I'm talking about USA specifically

 

[Djinn]

I'm talking about USA specifically

Yes i am also talking about USA as it knows well that its tech winds up in China via Israel. Now in case of Pakistan the China card is just an excuse.

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

Found my new wallpaper

 

[war&peace]

Not true. The father of the MIG-25 and F-15 is the North American A-5 Vigilante.

And what makes you reach the conclusion mate...would you like to enlighten us mortals.

 

[redgriffin]

And what makes you reach the conclusion mate...would you like to enlighten us mortals.

Gambit is correct. The Vigilante pioneered a lot of the aerodynamic layout & concepts which influenced the later Mig-25 & F-15.
These aren't cases of one design fathering another but rather of "form following function".
Aircraft designers in about the same timeframe, sitting in different countries, faced with similar aerodynamic problems came up with similar solutions. A good example would be of intermediate & advanced trained from the 70s & 80s. So take a look at the K-8 & the Bae Hawk t.mk1. The Hawk came out before the K-8. Both have an extremely similar fuselage, one has a moderately swept wing, one has a straight wing but you wouldn't call the K-8 a child of the Hawk. Similarly look up the Alpha Jet, CASA C.121 (iirc) Mirlo, FMA Pampa, PZL Irydia, Soko Super Galeb etc.
They all look similar because they tackle the same problem & were designed in the same time frame as each other give or take a few years.
You cannot simplify aircraft design similarities by calling one a father of another.

 

[MastanKhan]

JF-17's initial design images and various contemporary designs

When you look from the top---it looks as if it has been designed keeping in view the YF17 and F/A-18A---.

 

[Signalian]

When you look from the top---it looks as if it has been designed keeping in view the YF17 and F/A-18A---.

bit of F-5 and F-20.