JF-17 vs Tejas at Dubai Airshow

[ozranger]

Tejas

JF-17

What are the aerodynamical differences you can notice between their demo flights?

 

[MastanKhan]

No one is calling it world renowned. It would do the job for us and that is more than what we need or want. Being renowned was not our aim either.


May not be a rude, but it would be a shock though. Paksiatn must have learned few things while working on JF. But, converting that into complete capability without major help from agency like CATIC or likewise isn’t expected.

Good luck.

Hi,

You are in for a surprise---when you find out what we taught the chinese---.

 

[VkdIndian]

What would be shocking would be what we taught the chinese---

Highly possible to possess a good insight into few areas concerning aircraft development. Having operated many western aircraft, PAF was bound to develop good insight on many areas not known to the Chinese.

The issue still remains to be able to have in-house capability or capability to undertake an independent development of aircraft. It would need 360 deg capability to be able to achieve that. External assistance can be obtained but no one would give the complete know how. Not even the Chinese.

It would take a good decade, if Paksiatn starts today. Good luck.

 

[khansaheeb]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1725174041370140822

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1725521737335324683

 

[White and Green with M/S]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1725521737335324683

There are always trade off between designs of both jets delta wings is built for high altitudes speed like Mirages/ f106 from 50s and 60 but weak in agility/maneuverability at some respect

And as for cropped tail delta wings like jf17 is built for agility/maneuverability at low altitudes

Jf17 is good in sustain turn ratio whereas Tejas is good in intentenous turn ratio

More or less both jets are quite comparable to each other

 

[MirageBlue]

There are always trade off between designs of both jets delta wings is built for high altitudes speed like Mirages/ f106 from 50s and 60 but weak in agility/maneuverability at some respect

And as for cropped tail delta wings like jf17 is built for agility/maneuverability at low altitudes

Jf17 is good in sustain turn ratio whereas Tejas is good in intentenous turn ratio

More or less both jets are quite comparable to each other

Weak in agility? The Tejas has better instantaneous turn rates than the JF-17 and that is borne out by the videos where they flew in Dubai. Sustained turn rates will be where the JF-17 may have an edge.

But the Tejas clearly excels over the JF-17 in climb rates and has MUCH MUCH lower wing loading than the JF-17, which means LOTS of lift is generated and in general it'll continue to be more agile throughout the envelope versus the much higher wing loading of the JF-17.

A pilot in a Mirage-2000 or Tejas will look to employ that high ITR and climb rate to have one quick turn into the target, acquire the target and fire the HOBS missile with the HMDS and then climb away to avoid becoming a target. Python V or R-73E or ASRAAM will be then on their way to the target. The tactic is called a slash and run attack.

In fact, the Tejas has the lowest wing loading of any fighter flown clean. It also has one of the highest degree of static instability rate amongst all fighters (including Typhoon) which means it is inherently extremely agile.

Delta wing fighters without FBW and without leading edge slats were not agile, but the Mirage-2000 changed all that. the Tejas is inspired from it.

 

[messiach]

Hi,

You are in for a surprise---when you find out what we taught the chinese---.

what did we taught them ? all machine tool machines we brought from china first for the F7p to pg upgrade project and later FC! project and another one.

 

[MastanKhan]

what did we taught them ? all machine tool machines we brought from china first for the F7p to pg upgrade project and later FC! project and another one.

Nothing.

 

[Nomad40]

Weak in agility? The Tejas has better instantaneous turn rates than the JF-17 and that is borne out by the videos where they flew in Dubai. Sustained turn rates will be where the JF-17 may have an edge.

But the Tejas clearly excels over the JF-17 in climb rates and has MUCH MUCH lower wing loading than the JF-17, which means LOTS of lift is generated and in general it'll continue to be more agile throughout the envelope versus the much higher wing loading of the JF-17.

A pilot in a Mirage-2000 or Tejas will look to employ that high ITR and climb rate to have one quick turn into the target, acquire the target and fire the HOBS missile with the HMDS and then climb away to avoid becoming a target. Python V or R-73E or ASRAAM will be then on their way to the target. The tactic is called a slash and run attack.

In fact, the Tejas has the lowest wing loading of any fighter flown clean. It also has one of the highest degree of static instability rate amongst all fighters (including Typhoon) which means it is inherently extremely agile.

Delta wing fighters without FBW and without leading edge slats were not agile, but the Mirage-2000 changed all that. the Tejas is inspired from it.

That MUCH MUCH lower wing loading and LOTS of lift come at great cost - especially for the role of a light fighter.

"A pilot in a Mirage-2000 or Tejas will look to employ that high ITR and climb rate to have one quick turn into the target, acquire the target and fire the HOBS missile with the HMDS and then climb away to avoid becoming a target. Python V or R-73E or ASRAAM will be then on their way to the target. The tactic is called a slash and run attack." Yups in Bollywood.

"In fact, the Tejas has the lowest wing loading of any fighter flown clean. It also has one of the highest degree of static instability rate amongst all fighters (including Typhoon) which means it is inherently extremely agile" WOW - If looking for affirming evidence was sport.

"Delta wing fighters without FBW and without leading edge slats were not agile, but the Mirage-2000 changed all that. the Tejas is inspired from it." The Deltas were perfectly agile and you are misinterpreting the phenomenon between agility and maneuverability.

 

[Reichmarshal]

That MUCH MUCH lower wing loading and LOTS of lift come at great cost - especially for the role of a light fighter.

"A pilot in a Mirage-2000 or Tejas will look to employ that high ITR and climb rate to have one quick turn into the target, acquire the target and fire the HOBS missile with the HMDS and then climb away to avoid becoming a target. Python V or R-73E or ASRAAM will be then on their way to the target. The tactic is called a slash and run attack." Yups in Bollywood.

"In fact, the Tejas has the lowest wing loading of any fighter flown clean. It also has one of the highest degree of static instability rate amongst all fighters (including Typhoon) which means it is inherently extremely agile" WOW - If looking for affirming evidence was sport.

"Delta wing fighters without FBW and without leading edge slats were not agile, but the Mirage-2000 changed all that. the Tejas is inspired from it." The Deltas were perfectly agile and you are misinterpreting the phenomenon between agility and maneuverability.

First teja needs to be operationalized by iaf in the true sense of the word before we can figure out wt it can n cant do.......the ac that the Indians compare it with have been actively flying minimum 10 years....which in it self is embarking for tajas

 

[VkdIndian]

needs to be operationalized by iaf in the true sense

Two squadrons don’t count?

When induction starts for further squadrons, then do they need to apply to you for a certificate of being operational?

JF is flying for 10 years and that edge in time would always remain. With that logic no new aircraft can ever be called good enough.

If there was a certificate for being idiots, then quite a few highly deserving candidates exist on PDf.

 

[Mrc]

One thing to notice is there are absolutely no weapons qualified on tejas
The Al tariq weapons design displayed probably don't actually exist and even if they do definitely not mated to tejas

It really doesn't even matter if jet is good or bad, what's its going to throw at enemy?? Eggs??

 

[VkdIndian]

One thing to notice is there are absolutely no weapons qualified on tejas

Your message count on PDF is +10K.

How did you reach this count, being so…….

No weapons qualified on Tejas? Ye sapnaa kab dekh bhai? Or did you smoke something very potent?

 

[Mrc]

Your message count on PDF is +10K.

How did you reach this count, being so…….

No weapons qualified on Tejas? Ye sapnaa kab dekh bhai? Or did you smoke something very potent?

Dubai mai
Where only uae weapons seems to be on display with tejas
What package are they offering buyers?

 

[VkdIndian]

What package are they offering buyers?

Prospective buyers don’t depend on an airshow to make the purchase. It is done outside of these air shows and they are shared with the required information.

Tejas has a very comprehensive suit of weapons. Anyone keen, can easily find the details.

In fact Al Tariq being shown as an option, shows the versatility of being able to slap on weapon systems of choice. That’s a big positive and not a negative as is being said by many here.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Prospective buyers don’t depend on an airshow to make the purchase. It is done outside of these air shows and they are shared with the required information.

Tejas has a very comprehensive suit of weapons. Anyone keen, can easily find the details.

In fact Al Tariq being shown as an option, shows the versatility of being able to slap on weapon systems of choice. That’s a big positive and not a negative as is being said by many here.

First you have to induct Tejas in numbers on IAF than think for export with low production rate it takes years for IAF to induct Tejas in numbers