JF-17 vs Tejas at Dubai Airshow

[ozranger]

Tejas

JF-17

What are the aerodynamical differences you can notice between their demo flights?

 

[buntalanlucu]

no one in the world want a body kit of jets made up of western parts that can be easily sanctioned..

they want real jets , even old mirage 2000 still better than tejas because it is french made and you can use it anywhere except when you at war with france lol

but with Tejas with so many imported part from different nations , you cant even use tejas to do any CAP due to 'western protest'

that is the real reason TEJAS failed to sell , not because of it's performace (its good because it is not indian jet but western jet with indian body kit)

and delusional indians still believe india can make AMCA ? what a joke

 

[air marshal]

 

[Joe Shearer]

This thread illustrates clearly what is wrong with Pakistan, and what they will always fail to grasp.

There is a difference between building an entire eco-system, with no external assistance except two interventions, first, the collaboration that Lockheed Martin offered, and then withdrew along with the confiscation of all Indian engineers' personal notes, second, the discussions with Dassault about some basic aerodynamic issues that were addressed to the mutual satisfaction of both those consulted and those consulting.

Since then, HAL tried to project the Tejas well beyond its projected positioning as the mass produced replacement for the MiG 21, and even took it to the Navy, in the teeth of the obvious baseline assumption that the Navy (a) doesn't like to take single engine aircraft; (b) doesn't like aircraft designs that do not take into account the tremendous shock of landing on a very constricted deck and then being physically restrained to bring the aircraft to a halt. That was really a waste of time, and a firm hand at the controls would have saved the Navy a lot of time, and saved HAL from a lot of wishful thinking.

Now the basic model is being put into volume production at steadily increasing volumes, and there is enough surplus trained technical capability to look at increments, without big brother breathing heavily down our necks, to look at enhancing the core capabilities planned and the next step up, and to look at involving a wide swathe of Indian industry in thinking and doing things for the defence services.

What I read here was ridiculous. There is not the slightest understanding of the gross differences between good project managers, pushing the right buttons to make a technically superior partner country perform as they should perform to improve the client's position, and between setting up an entire industry, that will clearly progressively take up the slack from HAL. How that will be done remains to be seen; it could be by separating rotary wing manufacture, that was given a massive push forward by that marvellous Chairman Baweja, and fixed wing manufacture, or by separating fixed wing manufacture out into different paths into the future, based on the mother plants of HAL collaborating with closely located private industry, or a vast combination of paths. Those are now available to us. What is also available is an abundance of technical and design talent, not just in aircraft design, but in design of guns, of ships and of armoured vehicles. Whichever the branch of enterprise - disclaimer: I am NOT a Modi fan - India has a firm grip on it, well beyond the sneers and envious quips of some of those who have posted here, well beyond software, at which we have bluntly proved to be more than adequate, into hardware.

Some idiot talked about our having had exposure to blueprints. Only an idiot would make a remark like that. One of the jobs I undertook for the IAF was to translate and convert all their documentation into SGML. There were around fifteen or sixteen basic types flying then. The quality of the documentation was atrocious (two-thirds in Russian, but that was not an issue; we had acquired enough resource to translate those, verify them as accurate and convert them), and there were huge gaps in basics. When we sent people to the mother plants, we found that they were not particularly well off either. The western planes were covered in a hugely different manner, and their performance in active deployment was also streets ahead.

What amazes me is the cocksure way in which people make comments, without the slightest idea of what has been achieved, and what lies ahead as a result. I say this more in wonder than with a sense of annoyance, except vicarious annoyance for the harassment of a lone Indian who has been trying, a mistake, to defend the Tejas performance at an airshow, as a design, as a stepping stone, in short, whatever a rather dim squad sought to attack him about.

Let me predict the future.

It will be death by being ground down into finely ground meal. In spite of my dislike of the present Indian central government's plans and policies and its blindness to social issues and to the rights of minorities, economically, they have had the good sense to leave things to the capitalists - not necessarily a brilliant thing to do, but it is what it is - after an initial couple of bungles, with de-monetisation and with their adoption of GST. As a result, the losses due to COVID, that again we survived IN SPITE of the government, have been made up, and growth is in the region of 7%. With its recent electoral demonstration that it is firmly in control, expect to see more and more being made within the country, and more and more industrial capacity coming into play. We may never come close to matching China, an invasion of Tibet will never be possible, but there is nothing deterring us from overpowering anything else that our politicians set their minds to demolish. Only an open land attack on China will remain out of consideration.

There is always the hope that our general officers will make disastrous mistakes.

It is here that our enemies must put their prayers. If we get another Rawat at the helm of affairs, other nations have a fighting chance. Not in matching India technically, or in production, or in deployment. We make mistakes; as one person posting pointed out with a smug tone, our mistakes are known pretty quickly, because we tell the whole world what we are planning to do, rather than being dazzlingly brilliant and not informing the world how we have sunk one more level in our ability to procure adequate defence equipment. This is not true. We were picking up and executing projects well beyond the capabilities advertised - to name two things long gone by and visible only in the rear view mirror, learning the basics of glass cockpit design and implementation in a close collaboration with a leading French technical world leader, and writing the programme for the flight control of the PSLV; eight microprocessors conversing with each other in Ada, and coming to a decision (the first, and last project ISRO allowed out, even to the joint sector).

We really have nothing to worry about in the real world, and at worst, will have to face, as individuals, the gibes and snide remarks of the underinformed.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

When has china made jet fighter from scratch? Literally everything that chiniesee airforce flies today is bought or stolen tech from other countries. from engines to radars to designs, everything china has is either Soviet, Russian, Ukranian or Israeli in origin.

Does Russia/Ukraine/Israel have a equivalent of j20/J35?

 

[Bossman]

This thread illustrates clearly what is wrong with Pakistan, and what they will always fail to grasp.

There is a difference between building an entire eco-system, with no external assistance except two interventions, first, the collaboration that Lockheed Martin offered, and then withdrew along with the confiscation of all Indian engineers' personal notes, second, the discussions with Dassault about some basic aerodynamic issues that were addressed to the mutual satisfaction of both those consulted and those consulting.

Since then, HAL tried to project the Tejas well beyond its projected positioning as the mass produced replacement for the MiG 21, and even took it to the Navy, in the teeth of the obvious baseline assumption that the Navy (a) doesn't like to take single engine aircraft; (b) doesn't like aircraft designs that do not take into account the tremendous shock of landing on a very constricted deck and then being physically restrained to bring the aircraft to a halt. That was really a waste of time, and a firm hand at the controls would have saved the Navy a lot of time, and saved HAL from a lot of wishful thinking.

Now the basic model is being put into volume production at steadily increasing volumes, and there is enough surplus trained technical capability to look at increments, without big brother breathing heavily down our necks, to look at enhancing the core capabilities planned and the next step up, and to look at involving a wide swathe of Indian industry in thinking and doing things for the defence services.

What I read here was ridiculous. There is not the slightest understanding of the gross differences between good project managers, pushing the right buttons to make a technically superior partner country perform as they should perform to improve the client's position, and between setting up an entire industry, that will clearly progressively take up the slack from HAL. How that will be done remains to be seen; it could be by separating rotary wing manufacture, that was given a massive push forward by that marvellous Chairman Baweja, and fixed wing manufacture, or by separating fixed wing manufacture out into different paths into the future, based on the mother plants of HAL collaborating with closely located private industry, or a vast combination of paths. Those are now available to us. What is also available is an abundance of technical and design talent, not just in aircraft design, but in design of guns, of ships and of armoured vehicles. Whichever the branch of enterprise - disclaimer: I am NOT a Modi fan - India has a firm grip on it, well beyond the sneers and envious quips of some of those who have posted here, well beyond software, at which we have bluntly proved to be more than adequate, into hardware.

Some idiot talked about our having had exposure to blueprints. Only an idiot would make a remark like that. One of the jobs I undertook for the IAF was to translate and convert all their documentation into SGML. There were around fifteen or sixteen basic types flying then. The quality of the documentation was atrocious (two-thirds in Russian, but that was not an issue; we had acquired enough resource to translate those, verify them as accurate and convert them), and there were huge gaps in basics. When we sent people to the mother plants, we found that they were not particularly well off either. The western planes were covered in a hugely different manner, and their performance in active deployment was also streets ahead.

What amazes me is the cocksure way in which people make comments, without the slightest idea of what has been achieved, and what lies ahead as a result. I say this more in wonder than with a sense of annoyance, except vicarious annoyance for the harassment of a lone Indian who has been trying, a mistake, to defend the Tejas performance at an airshow, as a design, as a stepping stone, in short, whatever a rather dim squad sought to attack him about.

Let me predict the future.

It will be death by being ground down into finely ground meal. In spite of my dislike of the present Indian central government's plans and policies and its blindness to social issues and to the rights of minorities, economically, they have had the good sense to leave things to the capitalists - not necessarily a brilliant thing to do, but it is what it is - after an initial couple of bungles, with de-monetisation and with their adoption of GST. As a result, the losses due to COVID, that again we survived IN SPITE of the government, have been made up, and growth is in the region of 7%. With its recent electoral demonstration that it is firmly in control, expect to see more and more being made within the country, and more and more industrial capacity coming into play. We may never come close to matching China, an invasion of Tibet will never be possible, but there is nothing deterring us from overpowering anything else that our politicians set their minds to demolish. Only an open land attack on China will remain out of consideration.

There is always the hope that our general officers will make disastrous mistakes.

It is here that our enemies must put their prayers. If we get another Rawat at the helm of affairs, other nations have a fighting chance. Not in matching India technically, or in production, or in deployment. We make mistakes; as one person posting pointed out with a smug tone, our mistakes are known pretty quickly, because we tell the whole world what we are planning to do, rather than being dazzlingly brilliant and not informing the world how we have sunk one more level in our ability to procure adequate defence equipment. This is not true. We were picking up and executing projects well beyond the capabilities advertised - to name two things long gone by and visible only in the rear view mirror, learning the basics of glass cockpit design and implementation in a close collaboration with a leading French technical world leader, and writing the programme for the flight control of the PSLV; eight microprocessors conversing with each other in Ada, and coming to a decision (the first, and last project ISRO allowed out, even to the joint sector).

We really have nothing to worry about in the real world, and at worst, will have to face, as individuals, the gibes and snide remarks of the underinformed.

#uck off randian, your lectures are not needed here. Too much cheap whiskey mixed with gao mutar

 

[MirageBlue]

This thread illustrates clearly what is wrong with Pakistan, and what they will always fail to grasp.

There is a difference between building an entire eco-system, with no external assistance except two interventions, first, the collaboration that Lockheed Martin offered, and then withdrew along with the confiscation of all Indian engineers' personal notes, second, the discussions with Dassault about some basic aerodynamic issues that were addressed to the mutual satisfaction of both those consulted and those consulting.

Since then, HAL tried to project the Tejas well beyond its projected positioning as the mass produced replacement for the MiG 21, and even took it to the Navy, in the teeth of the obvious baseline assumption that the Navy (a) doesn't like to take single engine aircraft; (b) doesn't like aircraft designs that do not take into account the tremendous shock of landing on a very constricted deck and then being physically restrained to bring the aircraft to a halt. That was really a waste of time, and a firm hand at the controls would have saved the Navy a lot of time, and saved HAL from a lot of wishful thinking.

Now the basic model is being put into volume production at steadily increasing volumes, and there is enough surplus trained technical capability to look at increments, without big brother breathing heavily down our necks, to look at enhancing the core capabilities planned and the next step up, and to look at involving a wide swathe of Indian industry in thinking and doing things for the defence services.

What I read here was ridiculous. There is not the slightest understanding of the gross differences between good project managers, pushing the right buttons to make a technically superior partner country perform as they should perform to improve the client's position, and between setting up an entire industry, that will clearly progressively take up the slack from HAL. How that will be done remains to be seen; it could be by separating rotary wing manufacture, that was given a massive push forward by that marvellous Chairman Baweja, and fixed wing manufacture, or by separating fixed wing manufacture out into different paths into the future, based on the mother plants of HAL collaborating with closely located private industry, or a vast combination of paths. Those are now available to us. What is also available is an abundance of technical and design talent, not just in aircraft design, but in design of guns, of ships and of armoured vehicles. Whichever the branch of enterprise - disclaimer: I am NOT a Modi fan - India has a firm grip on it, well beyond the sneers and envious quips of some of those who have posted here, well beyond software, at which we have bluntly proved to be more than adequate, into hardware.

Some idiot talked about our having had exposure to blueprints. Only an idiot would make a remark like that. One of the jobs I undertook for the IAF was to translate and convert all their documentation into SGML. There were around fifteen or sixteen basic types flying then. The quality of the documentation was atrocious (two-thirds in Russian, but that was not an issue; we had acquired enough resource to translate those, verify them as accurate and convert them), and there were huge gaps in basics. When we sent people to the mother plants, we found that they were not particularly well off either. The western planes were covered in a hugely different manner, and their performance in active deployment was also streets ahead.

What amazes me is the cocksure way in which people make comments, without the slightest idea of what has been achieved, and what lies ahead as a result. I say this more in wonder than with a sense of annoyance, except vicarious annoyance for the harassment of a lone Indian who has been trying, a mistake, to defend the Tejas performance at an airshow, as a design, as a stepping stone, in short, whatever a rather dim squad sought to attack him about.

Let me predict the future.

It will be death by being ground down into finely ground meal. In spite of my dislike of the present Indian central government's plans and policies and its blindness to social issues and to the rights of minorities, economically, they have had the good sense to leave things to the capitalists - not necessarily a brilliant thing to do, but it is what it is - after an initial couple of bungles, with de-monetisation and with their adoption of GST. As a result, the losses due to COVID, that again we survived IN SPITE of the government, have been made up, and growth is in the region of 7%. With its recent electoral demonstration that it is firmly in control, expect to see more and more being made within the country, and more and more industrial capacity coming into play. We may never come close to matching China, an invasion of Tibet will never be possible, but there is nothing deterring us from overpowering anything else that our politicians set their minds to demolish. Only an open land attack on China will remain out of consideration.

There is always the hope that our general officers will make disastrous mistakes.

It is here that our enemies must put their prayers. If we get another Rawat at the helm of affairs, other nations have a fighting chance. Not in matching India technically, or in production, or in deployment. We make mistakes; as one person posting pointed out with a smug tone, our mistakes are known pretty quickly, because we tell the whole world what we are planning to do, rather than being dazzlingly brilliant and not informing the world how we have sunk one more level in our ability to procure adequate defence equipment. This is not true. We were picking up and executing projects well beyond the capabilities advertised - to name two things long gone by and visible only in the rear view mirror, learning the basics of glass cockpit design and implementation in a close collaboration with a leading French technical world leader, and writing the programme for the flight control of the PSLV; eight microprocessors conversing with each other in Ada, and coming to a decision (the first, and last project ISRO allowed out, even to the joint sector).

We really have nothing to worry about in the real world, and at worst, will have to face, as individuals, the gibes and snide remarks of the underinformed.

I would just like to clarify that it was the Indian Navy which had been operating the single engined Sea Harrier fighters and trainers that approached ADA for a naval LCA variant and not the other way around. Back then, there was no clear replacement for the Sea Harrier on the horizon since the Admiral Gorshkov offer came about later.

Only when the Admiral Gorshov offer came along and with it the offer for MiG-29Ks (Su-33s as well but they were considered unsuitable by the IN due to their much larger footprint on the Admiral Gorshkov's deck) did the IN actually have the option of a twin engined naval fighter. Rafale M F1 was also evaluated and after all the pros and cons were considered, the MiG-29K was selected.

Regarding what the Pakistani and Chinese forum idiots have to troll about the Tejas program, I have since day 1 on this forum, said that let it be! The quality of the discussions on this forum are a general reflection of the level of education, honesty, experience and self respect of the Pakistanis and Chinese who write all that stuff. Self reflection is one key feature of improvement. And that I'm glad to say, is missing from almost all Pakistanis I've encountered. Delusion, accompanied by belief in their own grandeur and total immersion in Islamic religion are a recipe for scientific and economic failures. Their template is SET.

It makes 0 difference to the status of the Indian programs or how they proceed. But it does tell us why Pakistan is where it is. In fact it makes me happy and dead sure that they are on their way to oblivion and economic and social disaster in the not too far future.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I would just like to clarify that it was the Indian Navy which had been operating the single engined Sea Harrier fighters and trainers that approached ADA for a naval LCA variant and not the other way around. Back then, there was no clear replacement for the Sea Harrier on the horizon since the Admiral Gorshkov offer came about later.

Only when the Admiral Gorshov offer came along and with it the offer for MiG-29Ks (Su-33s as well but they were considered unsuitable by the IN due to their much larger footprint on the Admiral Gorshkov's deck) did the IN actually have the option of a twin engined naval fighter. Rafale M F1 was also evaluated and after all the pros and cons were considered, the MiG-29K was selected.

You are right, and I regret giving the impression that entitlement to twin-engined aircraft was a naval birthright; it was an acquired flourish.

Afterthought: Actually I wasn't aware that the Navy had approached ADA and not the other way around. That is useful to know. Why did they approach ADA and not HAL? Was the approach before Tejas had been productionised?

 

[Joe Shearer]

And that I'm glad to say, is missing from almost all Pakistanis I've encountered. Delusion, accompanied by belief in their own grandeur and total immersion in Islamic religion are a recipe for scientific and economic failures. Their template is SET.

It makes 0 difference to the status of the Indian programs or how they proceed. But it does tell us why Pakistan is where it is. In fact it makes me happy and dead sure that they are on their way to oblivion and economic and social disaster in the not too far future.

I understand what you are saying, but I regret this.

My friends from that part of the world do not even remotely resemble in their deportment and speech what is on display here, among a specific group. It is my firm belief that there are other groups of different mental structure, only meagrely represented here.

If you care to go through a post I wrote that enclosed my cherished memories of friends I found here, you will find that the people mentioned are significantly, substantially different from those mentioned in your first paragraph above, leaving me, in turn, at variance with your Jeremiad from your last sentence. Cheer up, these are only immature, half-baked Internet paladins.

 

[Bilal9]

Self reflection is one key feature of improvement. And that I'm glad to say, is missing from almost all Pakistanis I've encountered. Delusion, accompanied by belief in their own grandeur and total immersion in Islamic religion are a recipe for scientific and economic failures. Their template is SET.

Not my circus, or my monkeys, but methinks you are painting with too broad a brush.

People are not cast in the same mold, they vary widely on how their mentalities are molded, depending on their life experiences.

Whether Indians, Pakistanis or Bangladeshis - every person has differences in thinking and beliefs.

Yes - generally there are some commonalities - Bengalis happen to be more educated and liberal (yes - Bangladeshis as well, but WB folks generally have a definite cultural proclivity). Yet Bengalis in both religions also happen to be devoted to their respective religions, bound and punctuated by religious festivals through out the year. This is only found in Bengal in South Asia, a respect for all religions and a harmonious society.

So painting Bangladeshis and Pakistanis as Jihadis (as your incumbent party in power does - just because they happen to be Muslim) is so different from reality.

I can have close Hindu friends (which I do), but still be religious and Islamically minded to some extent. I happen to be in the tech industry and my Islamic lifestyle did not provide...

a recipe for scientific and economic failures

Rather the opposite, I'd say.

Per my in person experience, some sections of Pakistani society are even more urbane and liberal than Bangladeshis, which brought me a new realization that I did not have before. So much for preconceived ideas...

Indians think Pakistan is a mullah-fied country. Far from it. Same with Bangladesh.

Your line of thinking you posted means YOUR template is SET about your ideas about Pakistanis, and no one else's. There is no template for Pakistanis. Or Bangladeshis, or Indians.

When Allah made Joe Shearer dada, me and you, he broke the mold. No duplicates exist.

People are as individualized as ever, regardless of country.

 

[Telescopic Sight]

#uck off randian, your lectures are not needed here. Too much cheap whiskey mixed with gao mutar

And then what did you say to your dad in reply?

 

[MirageBlue]

Not my circus, or my monkeys, but methinks you are painting with too broad a brush.

People are not cast in the same mold, they vary widely on how their mentalities are molded, depending on their life experiences.

Whether Indians, Pakistanis or Bangladeshis - every person has differences in thinking and beliefs.

Yes - generally there are some commonalities - Bengalis happen to be more educated and liberal (yes - Bangladeshis as well, but WB folks generally have a definite cultural proclivity). Yet Bengalis in both religions also happen to be devoted to their respective religions, bound and punctuated by religious festivals through out the year. This is only found in Bengal in South Asia, a respect for all religions and a harmonious society.

So painting Bangladeshis and Pakistanis as Jihadis (as your incumbent party in power does - just because they happen to be Muslim) is so different from reality.

I can have close Hindu friends (which I do), but still be religious and Islamically minded to some extent. I happen to be in the tech industry and my Islamic lifestyle did not provide...

Rather the opposite, I'd say.

Per my in person experience, some sections of Pakistani society are even more urbane and liberal than Bangladeshis, which brought me a new realization that I did not have before. So much for preconceived ideas...

Indians think Pakistan is a mullah-fied country. Far from it. Same with Bangladesh.

Your line of thinking you posted means YOUR template is SET about your ideas about Pakistanis, and no one else's. There is no template for Pakistanis. Or Bangladeshis, or Indians.

When Allah made Joe Shearer dada, me and you, he broke the mold. No duplicates exist.

People are as individualized as ever, regardless of country.

You yourself are one who constantly abuses Hindus and Indians, with some of the most vile and filthy language I have seen against both the religion as well as people.

I have seen several of your posts that stoop to a level that I can scarcely believe a forum would allow, but this forum does. That is what tells me about the thinking of the average or even above average Pakistani who might be moderating the forum.

I wouldn't paint all Bangladeshis the same based on your posts, but you ought to contemplate about what you write and how it reflects on all the stuff that you just wrote.

India is a country of 1.4 billion people. You think all Indians are alike or that all Hindus are alike? Or that all Muslims are alike or always being persecuted and not the other way around?

I can safely say that all the pointers including economic, are pointing in exactly the direction that I want for Pakistan. And looking at the bigotry, the lack of any research or honesty or even self realisation, I doubt it will change anytime soon. The less of a threat they pose to India and Indians the better.

 

[MirageBlue]

I understand what you are saying, but I regret this.

My friends from that part of the world do not even remotely resemble in their deportment and speech what is on display here, among a specific group. It is my firm belief that there are other groups of different mental structure, only meagrely represented here.

If you care to go through a post I wrote that enclosed my cherished memories of friends I found here, you will find that the people mentioned are significantly, substantially different from those mentioned in your first paragraph above, leaving me, in turn, at variance with your Jeremiad from your last sentence. Cheer up, these are only immature, half-baked Internet paladins.

I have both worked with and pretty closely known Pakistanis in the US too. Of course there are some gems that one will meet and they get along wonderfully well with Indians and Hindus.

But trust me, in most of the cases, there is a facade put up which lasts as long as one is talking about general stuff or Bollywood (which Pakistanis are IMMERSED in) when around Indians, which is taken off the moment there are none around them. They are a minority in most groups with Indians being in larger number in technology and other education related fields, but they harbour a deep and abiding dislike and disrespect of the Hindu faith as well as a deep racism about the skin color of many Indians.

I have only encountered such deep levels of hatred of Indians and Hindus amongst Pakistanis that I can't just attribute to propaganda and general ignorance. It is too widespread and there is simply no moderation. PDF, this forum is a snapshot of that. It isn't as if all the Hindu and Indian haters just suddenly appeared on PDF and the rest of the Pakistani spectrum is very different. This forum is a pretty large sample size of the type of people they are.

 

[RAMPAGE]

! The quality of the discussions on this forum are a general reflection of the level of education, honesty, experience and self respect of the Pakistanis and Chinese who write all that stuff. Self reflection is one key feature of improvement. And that I'm glad to say, is missing from almost all Pakistanis I've encountered. Delusion, accompanied by belief in their own grandeur and total immersion in Islamic religion are a recipe for scientific and economic failures. Their template is SET.

It makes 0 difference to the status of the Indian programs or how they proceed. But it does tell us why Pakistan is where it is. In fact it makes me happy and dead sure that they are on their way to oblivion and economic and social disaster in the not too far future.

You are spot on, unfortunately.

Cheer up, these are only immature, half-baked Internet paladins.

I wish I could agree. They are representative of the widespread attitudes that have rotted this country to its core.

 

[Windjammer]

I wonder when was the last time, an Indian (Hindu or otherwise) player, performer , artist or any celebrity had to face hostilities or a hostile crowd and even ended up being hounded out of Pakistan.
One just has to see the treatment served by the peace loving Hindus to visiting Pakistani players and celebrities, even the so called friendship bus that was running between India / Pakistan had it's Windows smashed just because it displayed a Pakistani flag along with the Indian.
This forum is also an example of how the Indian members, who are given privilege to be here, often box above weight and get their kicks by taunting and ridiculing Pakistan and Pakistanis...
Least it's not Pakistanis who have voted the Snow White (Not Complexion) Indians as the most racist nation on earth.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I have both worked with and pretty closely known Pakistanis in the US too. Of course there are some gems that one will meet and they get along wonderfully well with Indians and Hindus.

But trust me, in most of the cases, there is a facade put up which lasts as long as one is talking about general stuff or Bollywood (which Pakistanis are IMMERSED in) when around Indians, which is taken off the moment there are none around them. They are a minority in most groups with Indians being in larger number in technology and other education related fields, but they harbour a deep and abiding dislike and disrespect of the Hindu faith as well as a deep racism about the skin color of many Indians.

I have only encountered such deep levels of hatred of Indians and Hindus amongst Pakistanis that I can't just attribute to propaganda and general ignorance. It is too widespread and there is simply no moderation. PDF, this forum is a snapshot of that. It isn't as if all the Hindu and Indian haters just suddenly appeared on PDF and the rest of the Pakistani spectrum is very different. This forum is a pretty large sample size of the type of people they are.

I wish I could take you in and show you. Really, not kidding. there are two members of PDF, one Indian and one Pakistani, who can confirm this, but I do not want to violate their privacy.

You are spot on, unfortunately.


I wish I could agree. They are representative of the widespread attitudes that have rotted this country to its core.

If I can tempt you - you are not quite unknown, and introducing you would be a cinch - you would see different.