JF-17, not F-16, used in air combat: report

[Mugwop]

I still remember the joke. LAC Tejas vs J-20.
In short, Tejas win...

I have only one question - who is his father?

He came to the wrong place to find him

 

[BATMAN]

I believe the PAF and officials. They say no F-16 was used.

100% 2xthunders crossed the border and both Nauman Ali and Hassan Siddique were flying jF17.
Now if they are the two riders than F-16 was not the horse.
Another factor which goes against F-16, if the AIM shown by Indians is truely fired from Pak F-16 than it's clear that Pakistani AIM are useless against India.
We also know, when US released F-16 +AIM to PAK, India only agreed for the sale to PAK, after full review and assurances from US senate.
It's common sense, India would never agree to AIM sale, if they are not assured of it's full control.

 

[Mugwop]

modi,emperor trump can't convince bhartis otherwise

They will post a random tweet that favors them but turn blind to authentic evidence.

 

[BATMAN]

That

That your claim is based on your conversation with unnamed fanboy.

jF-17 shooting down thunder is no big deal, that's also what Indians are emphasizing as well.... right?
However the excitement and joy at the face of AVM Shahid Latif tells different story.

 

[Pied Piper]

https://thediplomat.com/2019/02/has...ii-fighter-jet-engaged-in-its-first-dogfight/

Has Pakistan’s JF-17 ‘Thunder’ Block II Fighter Jet Engaged in its First Dogfight?
Pakistan claims it has shot down two Indian Air Force fighter jets on February 27. The aerial combat may have involved the JF-17 fighter jet.

By Franz-Stefan Gady
February 28, 2019


Pakistan’s military said on February 27 that it has shot down two Indian Air Force (IAF) fighter jets that had entered Pakistani airspace, capturing a pilot.

“IAF crossed LOC [Line of Control]. PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace,” according to Pakistan’s military spokesman. “One of the aircraft fell inside AJ&K [Azad Kashmir] while other fell inside IOK [Indian-occupied Kashmir]. One Indian pilot arrested by troops on ground while two in the area.” The alleged captured IAF pilot, Wing Commander Abhi Nandan, the spokesperson said in a separate statement, “is being treated as per norms of military ethics.”

India confirmed that one of its planes was shot down by Pakistani planes and said a pilot is missing in a statement issued on February 27 by the Indian Ministry of External Affairs. “In that aerial engagement, one Pakistan Air Force [PAF] fighter aircraft was shot down by a MiG 21 Bison of the Indian Air Force,” the statement reads. “The Pakistani aircraft was seen by ground forces falling from the sky on the Pakistan side. In this engagement, we have unfortunately lost one MiG 21. The pilot is missing in action.”

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Pakistan has rejected India’s claim that a Pakistani fighter jet had been shot down.

The first MiG-21s entered service with the IAF in the 1960s. They are among the most accident-prone fighter jets ever to be inducted into service by the IAF. The MiG-21 Bison is an upgraded version of the Russian-made baseline MiG-21. According to unconfirmed media reports, the PAF military aircraft that shot down the Mig-21 Bison was an Aeronautical Complex/Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (PAC/CAC) JF-17 “Thunder” Block II multirole fighter jet. (Other reports claim that a PAF F-16 engaged the IAF fighters.)

“Proud to announce, I was project director for JF-17 Thunder program jointly produced by Pakistan and China during the tenure of General Pervez Musharraf,” retired PAF Air Marshall Shahid Latif said in a statement on social media today. “Today, same jets targeted and shot down Indian Jets which entered Pakistani Airspace.”

Some reports claim that the IAF jets were engaged with beyond-visual-range air-to-air missiles (BVRAAM). Notably, the PAF is in the process of integrating the Chinese-made PL-12 BVRAAM with the JF-17. (An unnamed BVRAAM has recently been test fired by the PAF.) As of today, there is no publicly available data to verify what aircraft type engaged the IAF jets. Nonetheless, if confirmed it would constitute the first kill of an aircraft by a JF-17. (A JF-17 shot down an Iranian drone in 2017.)

Yet, it could also point to a F-16 given that the aircraft can carry AIM-120C-7 advanced medium-range air-to-air missiles (AMRAAMs), which too would fit the description of the weapon system used in the dog fight, according to preliminary reports.

The JF-17 was originally developed to replace the PAF’s aging fleet of Dassault Mirage III/5 fighter jets by the early 2020s. The PAF is expected to induct 150 JF-17 combat aircraft over the next years, split into three productions blocks: Block I, Block II, and Block-III. PAC has so far produced 50 Block I aircraft and over 60 Block II JF-17s.

PAC has an annual domestic production capability of 25 JF-17 aircraft. “Pakistan is estimated to be capable of assembling up to 25 JF-17 aircraft per year without technical or logistical assistance from China. (PAC produces 58 percent of the airframe and CAC 42 percent),” I notedelsewhere.

Following the completion of Block II production, PAC will switch to Block III production. A two-seat trainer variant of the JF-17, designated JF-17B, will reportedly serve as the basis for the JF-17 Block III version of the aircraft.

“All JF-17 variants are powered by a Chinese license-built Klimov RD-93 (an RD-33 derivative) turbofan engine,” I explained previously. “The jet fighter is a multirole combat aircraft and can alternatively be armed with air-to-air, air-to-surface, and anti-ship missiles.” The aircraft has a combat radius of up to 1,200 kilometers without refueling and can reach a maximum speed of up to Mach 1.6.

The PAF JF-17s will reportedly be upgraded with a Chinese-made active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar system, which will significantly improve the aircraft’s combat capability. Furthermore, “a selected number of Block II and the future Block III variants also feature an in-flight refueling (IFR) probe, which suggests that the aircraft could be deployed for longer-range maritime strike missions,” I reported last year.

Malaysia and Nigeria are in the process of procuring the JF-17 for their respective air forces.

 

[BHarwana]

There were 12 block 2 JF-17 given to PAF in 2018 and they included AESA upgrade.

 

[Pied Piper]

http://tass.com/world/1046940
TASS NEWS AGENCY


Eight Indian fighters took on 24 Pakistani jets in unprecedented dogfight — media
WorldFebruary 28, 19:31
According to the NDTV broadcaster, the Indian Air Force’s planes prevented the Pakistani fighters from delivering precision strikes against ground targets on India-controlled disputed Kashmir region


NEW DELHI, February 28. /TASS/. Eight fighter jets of the Indian Air Force took on 24 Pakistani jets in an unprecedented air combat over the India-controlled disputed Kashmir region, India’s NDTV television reported on Thursday.

According to the TV Channel, the Pakistani Air Force strike group included eight F-16s, four Mirage-3 aircraft and four Chinese-made JF-17 "Thunder" fighters. The other aircraft were escort fighters to protect the Pakistan strike formation from any retaliation.

"The large Pakistani attack formation was detected at 9.45 am, when they came within 10 km of the Line of Control," the TV Channel reported.



The Pakistani aircraft were intercepted by eight jets of the Indian Air Force, which included four Sukhoi Su-30MKIs, two upgraded Mirage 2000s and two MiG 21 planes, the TV Channel reported.

The Indian Air Force’s planes prevented the Pakistani fighters from delivering precision strikes against ground targets on the India-controlled territory of the disputed Kashmir region, the TV Channel said.

The details of the first massive air combat between the Indian and Pakistani fighters since the third Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 emerged as India waited for the release of Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman from Pakistan's captivity.

The wing commander was in pursuit of a Pakistani F-16 jet, which he shot down with an R-73 air-to-air missile.

"Both pilots were seen parachuting down on the Pakistani side of the Line of Control," the TV Channel said.

At that moment, an AMRAAM (Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile) struck his aircraft, after which Varthaman was forced to eject and landed onto the Pakistani side of the Line of Control, where he was captured, the TV Channel said.

The tensions between New Delhi and Islamabad heightened after an Indian paramilitary convoy was attacked in Jammu and Kashmir on February 14, which claimed the lives of 45 people. The Jaish-e-Mohammed group, which aims at separating Kashmir from India and bringing it under Pakistan’s control, claimed responsibility for the February 14 attack.

Last Tuesday, India delivered an air strike against the camp of that grouping in the Pakistan-controlled part of the Kashmir region. On Wednesday, the Pakistani Air Force retaliated by an air strike on Indian military installations. Both India and Pakistan claimed they had shot down each other’s aircraft during the dogfight.

The situation in Jammu and Kashmir, India’s sole state with the predominantly Muslim population, has remained tense for many years. In the India-controlled part, secessionist militant groupings are active. New Delhi accuses Islamabad of supporting terrorists. Pakistan rejects these accusations.

 

[M.Bison]

That


*sigh*

The information is on this board, if one wants to find it. It is really obvious, so I can't actually tell if I am debating genuinely curious individuals or not.

Buddy, a lot of people are posting. Some are Indians and some are pakistanis. Pakistanis keep claiming that no f-16 was used and Indians are claiming that they actually have downed a f-16. There is no neutral party. You are saying you found information where someone claimed that an F-16 was used and I was just asking who is posting that? The official Pakistani claim is that No F-16 was used in the encounter with the Indian jets that entered Pakistani airspace. The same encounter with abhinandan.

 

[HAIDER]

For example: My father is the commander of the Mongolian Navy. We have a gunboat and a fishing boat. My father asked me to drive a fishing boat to fight. is this reasonable?

Same. India has SU-30 and MiG-21. and according to Indian news, he's a very good pilot. but his father let him drive MiG 21 to fight... Logical contradiction.

@maximuswarrior

At this point , i would say India is facing huge maintenance nightmare. It feels IAF half of the air inventory is not battle ready and there govt is not aware of that .That is the reason when Modi came to know he cry for Rafale. Shorts of parts and trained pilots. Thats for sure only Mirage 2000 has back up parts and weapons, that contract was renewed with France few years ago. Only Mig21 is in flying condition. I have doubts for SU30, because Russians are famous for ripoff once they signed the deals. Pakistan air force should compose of light and low maintenance strike fighters. SU30 failed to impress and shotdown by JF17 , now it is part of SU30 combat record for life.

 

[Pied Piper]

A lot of conflicting reports.. .I'm more inclined to stick with the PAF versions.. As it is more reliable when compared to IAF version (which has many contradictions)!

 

[BATMAN]

Elta was broken but gave much electronics intell.

So i assume it was secured in better than ash form!

My opinion:
Still, i doubt it's electronics would be of any help in any copy attempts, could be that they can identify some components and can guess about it's correct performance, nothing beyond.
At max, they can look at the general construction design and assembly technique, and if antenna is in good shape, perhaps they can look at the TRM. How it may help, i can't say anything with surety.
Pakistan is already making advance radars and the in house knowledge is ought to be even more advance.

SU30 failed to impress and shotdown by JF17

I shouldn't be educating IAF but Su-30 is not the right machine for Indo-Pak war theater.
Whereas jF17 is made specifically for that.

 

[GumNaam]

http://tass.com/world/1046940
TASS NEWS AGENCY


Eight Indian fighters took on 24 Pakistani jets in unprecedented dogfight — media
WorldFebruary 28, 19:31
According to the NDTV broadcaster, the Indian Air Force’s planes prevented the Pakistani fighters from delivering precision strikes against ground targets on India-controlled disputed Kashmir region


NEW DELHI, February 28. /TASS/. Eight fighter jets of the Indian Air Force took on 24 Pakistani jets in an unprecedented air combat over the India-controlled disputed Kashmir region, India’s NDTV television reported on Thursday.

According to the TV Channel, the Pakistani Air Force strike group included eight F-16s, four Mirage-3 aircraft and four Chinese-made JF-17 "Thunder" fighters. The other aircraft were escort fighters to protect the Pakistan strike formation from any retaliation.

"The large Pakistani attack formation was detected at 9.45 am, when they came within 10 km of the Line of Control," the TV Channel reported.



The Pakistani aircraft were intercepted by eight jets of the Indian Air Force, which included four Sukhoi Su-30MKIs, two upgraded Mirage 2000s and two MiG 21 planes, the TV Channel reported.

The Indian Air Force’s planes prevented the Pakistani fighters from delivering precision strikes against ground targets on the India-controlled territory of the disputed Kashmir region, the TV Channel said.

The details of the first massive air combat between the Indian and Pakistani fighters since the third Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 emerged as India waited for the release of Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman from Pakistan's captivity.

The wing commander was in pursuit of a Pakistani F-16 jet, which he shot down with an R-73 air-to-air missile.

"Both pilots were seen parachuting down on the Pakistani side of the Line of Control," the TV Channel said.

At that moment, an AMRAAM (Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile) struck his aircraft, after which Varthaman was forced to eject and landed onto the Pakistani side of the Line of Control, where he was captured, the TV Channel said.

The tensions between New Delhi and Islamabad heightened after an Indian paramilitary convoy was attacked in Jammu and Kashmir on February 14, which claimed the lives of 45 people. The Jaish-e-Mohammed group, which aims at separating Kashmir from India and bringing it under Pakistan’s control, claimed responsibility for the February 14 attack.

Last Tuesday, India delivered an air strike against the camp of that grouping in the Pakistan-controlled part of the Kashmir region. On Wednesday, the Pakistani Air Force retaliated by an air strike on Indian military installations. Both India and Pakistan claimed they had shot down each other’s aircraft during the dogfight.

The situation in Jammu and Kashmir, India’s sole state with the predominantly Muslim population, has remained tense for many years. In the India-controlled part, secessionist militant groupings are active. New Delhi accuses Islamabad of supporting terrorists. Pakistan rejects these accusations.

both of mig21's r73 missile tips have been found unfired around the wreckage. So their goes ndtv's theory out the window. abhi none done was the su30 pilot, not the mig21 pilot. That has already been proven.

 

[M.Bison]

A lot of conflicting reports.. .I'm more inclined to stick with the PAF versions.. As it is more reliable when compared to IAF version (which has many contradictions)!

Yeah I agree with you but we won't know until credible proof has been provided on both sides. Pakistan has provided more proof than Indians and that supports Pakistani side of events.
People assume its f-16 because f-16 is supposed to be superior to jf-17. That doesn't mean that jf-17 cannot down hindu vimans.. it actually makes sense because these retards thought that they could invade Pakistani airspace and over take the jf-17 but they ran in to a trap.

 

[HAIDER]

So i assume it was secured in better than ash form!

My opinion:
Still, i doubt it's electronics would be of any help in any copy attempts, could be that they can identify some components and can guess about it's correct performance, nothing beyond.
At max, if they can look at the general construction design and assembly technique, and if antenna is in good shape, perhaps they can look at the TRM. How it may help, i can't say anything with surety.
Pakistan is already making advance radars and the in house knowledge is ought to be even more advance.


I shouldn't be educating IAF but Su-30 is not the right machine for Indo-Pak war theater.
Whereas jF17 is made specifically for that.

Indian AF is junk collectors. They collect best of best, but they need to know how to use them. It is known fact when first time Indian adopted the SU30 , they insisted that remaining half of SU30 will be assembled by DRDO. After a year or so, Russian engineers who become so frustrated, due to Indian engineers incompetency, they end up taking over the whole kit project and assembled rest of SU30 for Indians.

 

[BHarwana]

So i assume it was secured in better than ash form!

My opinion:
Still, i doubt it's electronics would be of any help in any copy attempts, could be that they can identify some components and can guess about it's correct performance, nothing beyond.
At max, if they can look at the general construction design and assembly technique, and if antenna is in good shape, perhaps they can look at the TRM. How it may help, i can't say anything with surety.
Pakistan is already making advance radars and the in house knowledge is ought to be even more advance.


I shouldn't be educating IAF but Su-30 is not the right machine for Indo-Pak war theater.
Whereas jF17 is made specifically for that.

We don't need it for copy the EW suite we have is better as proved in this aerial engagement. The Elta will help to understand in evading it in future.