JF-17 comparison with Mirage F1

[TOPGUN]

We have talked about the m-2000 already we didnt get it in the past and dont know if we will get it or will be able to get it ! as per thunder m f-1 is not the same class!

 

[CanadianPad]

IMO....they are comparable. No matter how much we like to disagree.
No fly by wire.
Same weapon load and BVR capability.(8000 lbs)
Same engine performance. 18K lbs to 16K lbs.

Pak was looking for an interceptor to replace the F-7's and JF-17 fits.
I am sure Mirage F-1 will also perform in that role for Morocco.

But how will JF-17 compare when it goes head to head against SU30's or Mig29........ I'd say ..lets plan an exercise with Malaysia.

But its still tooo early...dont even have a squadron yet.

 

[SSGPA1]

I completely agree with Niaz. Even if we cosnider engine power and design, JF-17 will be a winner because it is more manouverable.

The cost of mainetnance will be lower for JF-17 because it is a new jet.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Mirage F 1 does not bring anything new to the table now. It is a little too late in the game---PAF is headed in a different direction where F 1 has no place.

The target of the PAF is to have birds that can compete with mirage 2k and up, in the IAF inventory.

Even if they have similiar capabilities--the JF 17 has a new frame---whereas the F 1 would be at its last upgrade---the JF 17 will get one in 7---10 years from now.

Today---the top end speed is not that big a deal, but a more powerful engine and electronics package is.

 

[HAIDER]

Come on guys F1 is old frame, can't accommodate new avionics. JF17 is made according to present and future requirements. F1 may be suitable for ground support or recky

Beside the point, Whole PAF top officials are in France right now. They arrived before Zardari. Hoping some news pop up. What they are looking for .

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The first news coming out is that france will sell us nuclear reacors.

 

[mean_bird]

Beside the point, Whole PAF top officials are in France right now. They arrived before Zardari. Hoping some news pop up. What they are looking for .

Wow! That looks like very good news.

 

[Wingman]

Perhaps Mirage F-1 was used as trainer aircrafts

 

[Arsalan]

no point in comparing these!

the F1 is decade old and JF17 is a new plane, modren design parameter, avionics and weapons take it far ahead from the F1!!

for me the best comparision of the JF17 s with the mirage2000 Gripen and rafale!
the Su 30 or the hornets are a different class!!

regards!

 

[Skywalker]

Little bit of irrelevant news to this thread but at the same time equally important, COAS is in France today, does that mean that there is some serious discussions going on between France and Pakistan relating to defence procurements of Army as well as Airforce.

Let see who opens the pindora box maybe the senior members could put some light on it.

 

[abbasniazi]

brothers, in my opinion, todays world of airforce is based upon 4 aspects (best radar, low RCS, Longrange AAMs, Accurate Kill Probability), speed and agility matters in close combat scenarios, a karakoram 8 jet trainers, fitted with a radar having 450 Kms range with a missile having a 100% kill probability at a distance od 200 Kms is better then SU 30MKI, so if it was upto me , i'd go for long radar radar, accurate long range AAMs, he who can manage this indigenously or otherwise will rule.....

 

[Munir]

F1 is optimized Mirage 3/5 for better agility but less ordance. Basicly it is the same plane. It has no bvr in the pic... It wil cost a fortune to make it comparalble with JF17. It is like telling that mercedes from the 90's is the same as a Porsche from 2009...

 

[niaz]

brothers, in my opinion, todays world of airforce is based upon 4 aspects (best radar, low RCS, Longrange AAMs, Accurate Kill Probability), speed and agility matters in close combat scenarios, a karakoram 8 jet trainers, fitted with a radar having 450 Kms range with a missile having a 100% kill probability at a distance od 200 Kms is better then SU 30MKI, so if it was upto me , i'd go for long radar radar, accurate long range AAMs, he who can manage this indigenously or otherwise will rule.....

Hon Sir,

Radar, especially one with 450 km range will be big and heavy, thus would need a large RADOM. K-8 nose is much too small; any thing better than a good ranging Radar would be hard to fit.

Low RCS requires angular non radar reflecting shape. Stealth planes such as F-22 even have their ordinance hidden inside to make RCS small.

Long Range AAM’s are heavy and large due to space requirement for large amount of fuel to give missile long range. To mate these with a small plane like K-8 would be next o impossible. For example

AIM-9….
Length 2.85 mtrs, weight 91 Kg, Range upto 18 Km

AIM 120….
Length 3.66 mtrs, weight 157 kg, range upto 70 km.

To arm K-8 with a 200 km rang missile you would need to arm it with something akin to AIM-54 (assuming you can somehow fit APG 71 size radar it its nose)

AIM- 54 (Phoenix)
Length 3.9 mtrs, weight 460 kg, range up to 200 km.

Since K-8 carries a total of 1000 kg on 5 hard points, doubt if airframe is strong enough to carry 460 kg on a single hard point.

Your statement is too generalist. It is like saying that a souped up Corolla can beat a Ferrari! No Sir, you cannot make an aircraft like K-8 compete with Su 30 Mk 1 or Jf-17 for that matter.

What you say is basically correct, but to get all the qualities that you suggest one needs a large heavy plane, in the F-14, F-15, Su 30 Mk-1 weight class.

 

[atp]

Pakistani JF-17 security forces thousands of vehicles in flight

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[MastanKhan]

brothers, in my opinion, todays world of airforce is based upon 4 aspects (best radar, low RCS, Longrange AAMs, Accurate Kill Probability), speed and agility matters in close combat scenarios, a karakoram 8 jet trainers, fitted with a radar having 450 Kms range with a missile having a 100% kill probability at a distance od 200 Kms is better then SU 30MKI, so if it was upto me , i'd go for long radar radar, accurate long range AAMs, he who can manage this indigenously or otherwise will rule.....

Hello Abbas,



You are so correct in your analysis---but the issue is which mouse is going to put the bell on the cat.

No nation in the world has the money to build that kind of plane---only the u s and the #'s of F 22's procured has come down a lot---even they can't afford it.

My request to you is to look at issues at hand in a realistic manner, look at our abilities and engineering capabilites.

The only thing you can do is to compete with your primary adversary and be a macth at a level of 80% and above. "OTHER" factors will compensate for the rest, on a good day----on a bad day---we will get our behinds whipped.