The indian criteria of liberalism is no more than less attire which btw is NO benchmark rest you are no more liberal than us rather at the same level keeping in view many things ranging from your religious issues to social ones.
Read post no. 10.
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The indian criteria of liberalism is no more than less attire which btw is NO benchmark rest you are no more liberal than us rather at the same level keeping in view many things ranging from your religious issues to social ones.
Pakistani liberals, yes, sure they can.
However, they are an endangered species in Pakistan nowadays, what with lawyers, apparently the supposedly educated elite, showering rose petals upon a religious bigot and the killer of man who took the side of liberalism.
Couple that with what happened with Shahbaz Bhatti; and Sherry Rehman; and the Maulvi who performed the last rites of Salman Taseer and my question doesn't seem like a low blow at all.
Sure it is. Without a doubt. Indian society is no benchmark of liberalism either.
A society which still has stuff like dowry, sati, child marriage, casteism can never be a benchmark of liberalism.
However, that society is not the sbject of this thread, is it?
It is not the general complexion of society, but the particular segments mined, that is under discussion.
Christian fair is always quiet biased about Pakistan and its army but that is another issue.
here one wonders over the phrase "New data suggests it may be even more liberal than Pakistani society as a whole."
Its not New. its an OLD fact that Pakistan Army had always been more liberal than our society
sir it does and it also includes schools run by the armys fauji foundation. cadet colleges and army public schools. the private schools she (fair) may be referring to are the elite private schools like aitchesons or lawrence college etc from which recruitment may not be as robust as in the past.
and finally sir IMHO the pakistani army exists ot defend pakistan. thats is its raison d'etre. any move which would ensure pakistan's destruction like giving our nukes to terrorists or turning islamist for no strategic gain would contradict everything the military stands for.
This is reasonable; not having any information about local conditions in Pakistan, it is good enough to have your characterisation of the situation and take it as a given.
You will find very, very few people disagreeing with this description as a desirable. The great worry, the main reason for Fair's article, is that this is not what is actually happening. The worry has been for some time the increase of Islamisation in the Army, that itself being thought to be due to an increase of Islamisation in society. We are all agreed that an Army which defends Pakistan, that does not make a disastrous move, such as handing over nuclear devices or materials for making nuclear devices, or turning Islamist (your caveat is noted, with some discomfort), is an Army that can be faced and dealt with, militarily and otherwise.
Your indian society is no better. your elites and that too the educated ones are still showering petals on the likes of Godse and Modi . in your country the biggest population of species called Dalits is endangered at the hands of your so called elite cast.
it is precisely the same here, with odd exceptions.
case closed - can i offer you a whiskey soda sir (black dog ofcourse)
...and there comes my infraction for calling a spade a spade.
Saying "Pakistani society is no benchmark for liberalism", does not mean saying "Indian society is a benchmark for liberalism".
Even if my flags are Indian. It doesn't. Hello!
...but ahhh, WTH, I guess I'll have to just accept that not everyone is able to reason as critically as I'd like them to.
...and some of them are even mods on internet.
baah! WTH!
I believe that when an article is posted, every single line of it is liable to scrutiny.
it is precisely the same here, with odd exceptions.
case closed - can i offer you a whiskey soda sir (black dog ofcourse)
silly of me someone mentioned black dog and i was arguing with him that this cant be whiskey 
Once travelling on PIA from UK to Pakistan, I happened to be sitting facing the seat reserved for the cabin crew.
Just before take-off, one of the female air hostess, attractive and looking glamorous as one would expect, took her position in the crew seat. Visibly she seemed oblivious to Islamic values but as the plane began it's run, I witnessed something which indeed put me to shame. The young lady closed her eyes and started reciting Quranic verses until we were air borne.
The Pakistani Army or the society are by no means fanatics, While we may be liberal or moderate, the true Islamic beliefs are never far...... which indeed is our strength.
If a mild protest is to be heard, not our elites; people supporting Godse and Modi are hardly elite. And we are working hard on the Dalit issue. For your information, in this matter, you are preaching to the choir; being Shudra myself gives me a more than adequate understanding of the issues.
I understand that U have ure own reasoning but the basis of the creation of Pakistan for the Muslims of subcontinent to practice their religion Islam independantly and with freedom.To protect Islam in its original shape as it came 1400 years ago.To protect and defend Islam in its every aspect.@very
@Black Widow
Needless to say, I disagree with you completely, but shall not open up the Jinnah_wanted_a_liberal_secular_Pakistan_with_a_Muslim_majority_population argument; it is pointless in the teeth of a dogmatic position based on faith and not on reason.
Of far greater interest are the contradictions in Fair's analysis. Her second factor, on the one hand, and her third and fourth factors, on the other, are flatly contradictory.
If the number of private schools is an index, then she has to do some sophisticated reasoning to explain how come there is a preponderance of retired officers in a private-school-starved district; surely in earlier generations, according to her hypothesis, it was from the elite that the officer class was recruited. Two possible answers supporting her thesis might be cited: (a) officers tend to settle down after retirement into less urban, rural backgrounds, and they are there, in private-school-starved districts at the END of their careers; presumably, they would have grown up elsewhere. This has to be checked. (b) There have been sufficient generations of officers for the preponderance of officers to reflect a preponderance of officers from non-elitist families. This is a possibility, though a little startling; it would indicate that a popularisation and a demoticisation of the officer class was a trend earlier than we had all thought.
The fourth point simply cannot be explained away, not certainly by Fair's tap-dancing around the subject. Either private schools provide a liberal milieu or they don't; if they provide a liberal milieu, and they are not predominant in the districts from which officers are recruited, then officers are NOT hired from a liberal milieu. This square simply cannot be circled.
Unfortunately, a promising start compromised by too many ifs and buts. Another Christine Fair piece of bunkum.