IRIAF | News and Discussions

[sami_1]

The Iranian Air Force needs to be completely rebuilt even if the current deals are completed

Its impact is limited, as the value of 25 SU-35 aircraft is not capable of protecting Iranian parts or confronting air weapons, but it is a type of limited deterrence, and therefore the deals
25 SU-35
18 MIL M-28
24 YAK-130
It is considered an initial payment, but must be followed by additional transactions

Iran has a good chance now
The Russian Air Force received most of the deal for 28 SU-35 fighters, which is the third deal. Therefore, the Russians can supply 24 SU-35 fighters annually to any customer because the production lines will be halted because they have no customers.
The same applies to the MIG-35. The capacity of the Russian production line is 30 aircraft annually, and there are no orders except an unconfirmed rumor about a small Egyptian order to compensate for aircraft losses in Sudan.
Iran's receipt of one SU-35 aircraft demonstrates that Iran will receive the aircraft directly from the new production lines and not receive previously produced aircraft. Therefore, the Iranian statements speak of completing the order and contracting, followed by delivery.
It is also noted that the Russians will supply the MI-28 aircraft instead of the KA-52M/K aircraft, perhaps because the Russian Air Force has doubled orders from the production lines for the KA-52 aircraft, despite compensating for the operational losses that occurred last year and this year with batches of more than 40 KA-52 aircraft. Delivered during 2023
We are just waiting for confirmations of the deal from the Russian side and pictures of the deliveries, because simply if any delivery happened, Iran would hasten to announce and demonstrate it as a means of deterrence, especially in light of the tense situation in the Middle East and the possibility of ignition at any moment.

 

[tsunset]

Wonder what config Iran will use on Mi-28, 8 Ataka and Vikhr or Iranian hellfires/others or do a mix of both?

I really see Mi-28 for fast action on the borders

Greatness if Iran gets R-37s, production lind for Su-35 and and others

90 Su-35/30 and 90 MiG-29SMT, 50 modernized F-5, 50 Mi-28/Ka-52 would put Iran on top ladder of the region and let it work on indigenous project while having the IADS relieved.

 

[jauk]

Wonder what config Iran will use on Mi-28, 8 Ataka and Vikhr or Iranian hellfires/others or do a mix of both?

I really see Mi-28 for fast action on the borders

Greatness if Iran gets R-37s, production lind for Su-35 and and others

90 Su-35/30 and 90 MiG-29SMT, 50 modernized F-5, 50 Mi-28/Ka-52 would put Iran on top ladder of the region and let it work on indigenous project while having the IADS relieved.

Iran will upgrade with Iranian tech beyond what Russia can offer and even has. These platforms will look different from when they were handed over.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Beside F1 and F-7, i don't see why Iran would retire tons of MiG-29 that can be standardized to modern norms of MiG-29, Su-22 aren't property of IRIAF and carries anti-ship missiles, they are heavily modified by IRGC. IRIAF would see itself with an inventory of nearly less than a hundred operational fighters if they are retired

MiG-23/27 doesn't exist

Unless on the long term, we all hope they get retired when the time comes (as fast as it can)

the price tag would be near the price for obtaining new aircraft and they are quiet old airframe.

 

[Flotilla]

Iran will upgrade with Iranian tech beyond what Russia can offer and even has. These platforms will look different from when they were handed over.

I agree. But only after many years. Iran I+D and aeronautical knowledge has been based mostly in US technology. Only small oportunities raised with Su22 and Mig29. But Su35 and Mi28 are in the edge on russian military technology, so even Russia doesn't want share ToT in both projects, I am pretty sure that IRIAF and technological I+D and university centers will develop some technogies for those or other new aircrafts. But we must be realistic. It will take years to understand, replicate and finally improve any sensor or system. Anyway that is in the worst escenario. At best some ToT will be dobe between Rosoboronexport and IRIAF and related companies.

 

[jauk]

I agree. But only after many years. Iran I+D and aeronautical knowledge has been based mostly in US technology. Only small oportunities raised with Su22 and Mig29. But Su35 and Mi28 are in the edge on russian military technology, so even Russia doesn't want share ToT in both projects, I am pretty sure that IRIAF and technological I+D and university centers will develop some technogies for those or other new aircrafts. But we must be realistic. It will take years to understand, replicate and finally improve any sensor or system. Anyway that is in the worst escenario. At best some ToT will be dobe between Rosoboronexport and IRIAF and related companies.

What systems specifically does Iran not have and/or cannot upgrade specifically? I would think the weapons load can be upgraded and integrated as a low hanging fruit. The RU-27 for example should not be needed.

 

[aryobarzan]

What systems specifically does Iran not have and/or cannot upgrade specifically? I would think the weapons load can be upgraded and integrated as a low hanging fruit. The RU-27 for example should not be needed.

Going by how things were with F-14 and other Military equipment that Iran bought during the shah and I personally experienced....

1- Legal issue..Original Equipment Suppliers do not want customers to modify their systems( would Iran allow Syria to modify KH-3 AD systems if sold to them)...the reasons are obvious unless this issue is resolved in the contract.

2- Technical Issue: to interface any thing to modern computer controlled software driven systems you need access to software tap points (I do not even say source code because they will not even give that to God).. Russian software codes unknown to me...development tools unknown to me..
3- Friendship issue: most we can hope for is that Russians are now friends and will give us good maintenance manuals and tools and some in-country training of the Techs by the Russians...That is all we got from Americans ( at very high cost..they charged us $25000 for a carrystand you buy in walmart for $200..ask me and I tell you the story!) and they were our best buddies at that time..lol

4-Supports system: have your cheque books ready to buy lots and lots of support systems ..simulators are just the start...and no they will not give you the flight dynamics of their aircrafts.

5- F*cked any way : So basically when you buy from foreign suppliers (you are f*cked) you are attached to them and milked by them on every occasion...Something many Iranians too young in here to remember or know...and this is not because Russians are bad people ..it is because that is how business works....and I do not even talk about "Kill Switch".. we did not have them in 1970's systems.

Let me know if any one still likes "Foreign buys"

 

[Deino]

huuuuuhh

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1729818354431492297

Similar numbers were already mentioned by Piotr Butowski - IMO the man on Russian aviation! - already several yeras ago:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1730212332398166360

 

[Ich]

Similar numbers were already mentioned by Piotr Butowski - IMO the man on Russian aviation! - already several yeras ago:

View attachment 1033692

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1730212332398166360

Me is not that sure if the Egypt SU-35 come to Iran cause me think Iran has different requirement at SU-35 than Egypt had.

 

[Deino]

Me is not that sure if the Egypt SU-35 come to Iran cause me think Iran has different requirement at SU-35 than Egypt had.

But do you really think Iran's Su-35 - at least the initial ones - will differ significantly in anything from a standard Su-35? Even those delivered to China are almost the same.

 

[Ich]

But do you really think Iran's Su-35 - at least the initial ones - will differ significantly in anything from a standard Su-35? Even those delivered to China are almost the same.

I can imagine that Iran wants also interconnection to its UCAV-Wingman and that there are maybe cooperation in the background between Russia and Iran to unify the iranian planned system and the already existing russian system, at least to have build in the preparations for that at delivery.

 

[TheImmortal]

but why think and question now whether it will be mass production or not, the simplest thing is to wait for the technical times necessary to test Yasin and Simorgh (as is also done in other countries for new models before mass production ) and then possibly criticize if these remain just chimeras and stop at the prototype.

Iran has not mass produced a single plane since starting these chimeras project in 1998.

I dont think you realize the faculties are simply not there nor the willpower.

Heard a report (not verified as of yet) that there is a foreign country that intends to do co-production of Yasin with Iran.. Pakistan was mentioned ..so was Iraq...I personally will add Venezuela to the mix....

Please stop. Pakistan? Nonsense. They are Chinese bought and lack funds.
Iraq? Nonsense They rely too much on western trade, won’t risk it.
Venezuela? Broke as hell.

It is my understanding based on facts as we will see, there is a TOT agreement as well for local assembly and parts manufacturing that benefits both parties.

Unfounded claims. Russia is notorious on not sharing critical ToT. Just ask India which operates 200+ SU-30 how ToT went.

And a well known user that was nagging and saying Iran doesn't have the need at all for attack choppers Exactly what i was hoping, Mi-28, Iran can work on modern attack helicopters with Mi-28.

You shouldn’t hide like this and actually call me out by name. Iran’s helicopters carry more PGMs and diverse armament than Russian attack helicopters. Just go check Ukraine war and see what alligators and Mi-28 are firing vs what Iran has built. It will suprise you. The only reason Iran is buying these is because Russia will allow Iran to use its own PGMs. If it didn’t, Iran wouldn’t touch helicopters firing unguided rockets and the limited diveristy of PGMs that Russia produces vs Iran.

How does Mi-28 help Iran versus the numerous cobras it has? Is it going to help against Israel or US?

One $5000 385 missile can take down a MI-28/KA-52. Iran went with MI-28 because it’s more armoured than Aligator and had significantly less losses and mechanical issues than Aligator in Ukraine. It was happy with its performance
Via Iraq during its battle with ISIS.

Iran can work on Mi-28 all it wants, it won’t magically learn how to reverse engineer the engine. Iran had its own helicopter projects (national helicopter project and Super cobra project) both went no where due to lacking engine tech.

You failed to prove why Iran needs new attack helicopters when it’s Cobras already do a great job with Iranian made PGMs.

The idiot MSM is saying "Iran will probably retire its F-14 and MiG-29", but they are experts in military so we have to believe them, Iran will retire all the MiG and F-14 fleet, for what according to the experts? For fun probably.

Because you can’t fly an airframe forever. Why is that confusing? Airframe suffers tiny stress fractures over time. Eventually even overhauling will no longer be viable. F-14’s were built in 1970’s, they are old enough to be your grandfather. Maintaining these planes eats a large amount of already tiny IRIAF budget.

F-14 was already maintenance heavy under US airforce. It was estimated to cost $35K-$45K per hour of flight to maintain. It didn’t magically get better years later with Iranian airforce. Even with lower cost of labor in Iran, it is still expensive to operate especially in relation to Iran’s measly airforce budget.

So yes, it makes sense to mothball F-14’s by 2030 for rainy day.

As for MIG-29 they don’t need to be retired, they need to be significantly modernized to be relevant in 2023. Or sell them to Iraq or Syria if you won’t modernize them. Right now they would lose against nearly every modern 4th generation fighter due to obsolete avionics and weaponry.

Thus why MSM "retirement of F-14 and MiG-29" are made by people having no knowledge of IRIAF, F-14 and MiG-29 are what makes the whole airforce with F-5/others, they think that Iran will retire hundreds of operational aircrafts just for 25 Su-35.

The ultimate amount of SU-35 is not yet known.

And SU-35 are a stop gap till Iran’s heavy engines get developed (likely in next 5 years) so that Iran will have a suitable engine to build a F-16/F-35 class fighter instead of playing around with F-5 over and over under various maskhareh names.

48 SU-35 can provided enough deterrence for next decade while Iran ramps its own production. SU-75 is the next logical choice for Iran’s Air Force if Russia-Iran grow closer.

Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to invest tons of money into SU-35 or F-14 when 6th gen US fighter is coming in 2030’s and Turkish 5th Gen fighter coming and more and more surrounding countries will be getting F-35’s eventually.

SU-35 is a nice stop gap and takes a lot of strain off F-14’s that are

 

[tsunset]

US didn't proposed F-14s to other countries at the time (besides Israel probably), they offered F-14 or F-15, specially for countering the soviets MiG-25s in exchange of the funding of the F-18 project that Iran would have access to and paid. It had everything, from instructors to the funding of the F-18 project that Iran would have first. US had big plans for vacuuming Iran, even an aircraft carrier serving as a NATO base against USSR.

They proposed E-3 and F-14 only to Iran at the time to then switch focus to the Saud emergency puppet.

All of that cancelled, Iran learned how to make their own weapon and fit them on foreign systems, this is not a secret. Russia KNOWS 100% that Iran will study it and not use their weapons (Ataka, Vikhr replaced with Ghaem and others, Iran will not buy any ALGMs, ALCMs/Ataka-like weapons from Russia and they know it), Iran will not have to see Russia to refill their Mi-28 of weapons, this is a part of the reasons they are so reluctant to sell modern technology to Iran.

Iran has not mass produced a single plane since starting these chimeras project in 1998.

I dont think you realize the faculties are simply not there nor the willpower.



Please stop. Pakistan? Nonsense. They are Chinese bought and lack funds.
Iraq? Nonsense They rely too much on western trade, won’t risk it.
Venezuela? Broke as hell.



Unfounded claims. Russia is notorious on not sharing critical ToT. Just ask India which operates 200+ SU-30 how ToT went.



You shouldn’t hide like this and actually call me out by name. Iran’s helicopters carry more PGMs and diverse armament than Russian attack helicopters. Just go check Ukraine war and see what alligators and Mi-28 are firing vs what Iran has built. It will suprise you. The only reason Iran is buying these is because Russia will allow Iran to use its own PGMs. If it didn’t, Iran wouldn’t touch helicopters firing unguided rockets and the limited diveristy of PGMs that Russia produces vs Iran.

How does Mi-28 help Iran versus the numerous cobras it has? Is it going to help against Israel or US?

One $5000 385 missile can take down a MI-28/KA-52. Iran went with MI-28 because it’s more armoured than Aligator and had significantly less losses and mechanical issues than Aligator in Ukraine. It was happy with its performance
Via Iraq during its battle with ISIS.

Iran can work on Mi-28 all it wants, it won’t magically learn how to reverse engineer the engine. Iran had its own helicopter projects (national helicopter project and Super cobra project) both went no where due to lacking engine tech.

You failed to prove why Iran needs new attack helicopters when it’s Cobras already do a great job with Iranian made PGMs.



Because you can’t fly an airframe forever. Why is that confusing? Airframe suffers tiny stress fractures over time. Eventually even overhauling will no longer be viable. F-14’s were built in 1970’s, they are old enough to be your grandfather. Maintaining these planes eats a large amount of already tiny IRIAF budget.

F-14 was already maintenance heavy under US airforce. It was estimated to cost $35K-$45K per hour of flight to maintain. It didn’t magically get better years later with Iranian airforce. Even with lower cost of labor in Iran, it is still expensive to operate especially in relation to Iran’s measly airforce budget.

So yes, it makes sense to mothball F-14’s by 2030 for rainy day.

As for MIG-29 they don’t need to be retired, they need to be significantly modernized to be relevant in 2023. Or sell them to Iraq or Syria if you won’t modernize them. Right now they would lose against nearly every modern 4th generation fighter due to obsolete avionics and weaponry.



The ultimate amount of SU-35 is not yet known.

And SU-35 are a stop gap till Iran’s heavy engines get developed (likely in next 5 years) so that Iran will have a suitable engine to build a F-16 class fighter instead of playing around F-5 over and over under various names.

48 SU-35 can provided enough deterrence for next decade while Iran ramps its own production. SU-75 is the next logical choice for Iran’s Air Force if Russia-Iran grow closer.

Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to invest tons of money into SU-35 or F-14 when 6th gen US fighter is coming in 2030’s and Turkish 5th Gen fighter coming and more and more surrounding countries will be getting F-35’s eventually.

SU-35 is a nice stop gap and takes a lot of strain off F-14’s that are

It wasn't aimed at you, he already answered me.

 

[TheImmortal]

But do you really think Iran's Su-35 - at least the initial ones - will differ significantly in anything from a standard Su-35? Even those delivered to China are almost the same.

China significantly changed their SU-30’s back in the early 2000’s and Russia actually built several new technologies for the Chinese SU-30 alone that Russia ones didn’t even have. Just do a simple research, I’m too lazy to list them, I did once before on here.

Then China did its own upgrades and Russia didn’t care.

There is a myth that Sukhoi gets mad if you mess with their planes, they do not. And they can customize the plane a lot if they are confident you won’t share the information with Western countries.

Algeria, PGG, Egypt are not trust worthy countries when they can share their tech with US so naturally Russia isn’t going to bend over backwards to incorporate higher end technologies. They will stick to export. That concern doesn’t exist with China or Iran as they are anti US when it comes to military relations.

 

[TheImmortal]

US didn't proposed F-14s to other countries at the time (besides Israel probably), they offered F-14 or F-15, specially for countering the soviets MiG-25s in exchange of the funding of the F-18 project that Iran would have access to and paid.

Go read why they gave F-14 to the Shah. It was because Shah was a big Whiney baby who wanted new toys (much like Arabs today). He was requesting arms that were off the table, so They flew him in the F-14 to trick him and then offered the plane knowing they had him hook line and sinker. Just check the leaked CIA cables.

Shah was imbecile who just got memorized by a shiny toy. F-14 was powerful yes but very expensive and maintenance heavy. So this notion that ONLY Iran got F-14 because of some super duper exclusive tie with US is not rooted in reality. It was more because we had a whiny baby dictator who cried and threatened so much they shut him up with F-14. I forgot what he actually wanted.

It had everything, from instructors to the funding of the F-18 project that Iran would have first. US had big plans for vacuuming Iran, even an aircraft carrier serving as a NATO base against USSR.

It served many purposes. Mostly to shut up
The Shah who wanted arms that were off the table.

They proposed E-3 and F-14 only to Iran at the time to then switch focus to the Saud emergency puppet.

Iran was a banana country. Much like current Arab powers.

Russia KNOWS 100% that Iran will study it and not use their weapons (Ataka, Vikhr replaced with Ghaem and others, Iran will not buy any ALGMs, ALCMs/Ataka-like weapons from Russia and they know it), Iran will not have to see Russia to refill their Mi-28 of weapons, this is a part of the reasons they are so reluctant to sell modern technology to Iran.

Russia doesn’t care if you modernize their systems (China did it all the time). Hell Iran went in shortly after 2008 TOR-M1 purchase and lifted the export restriction that range limited the missiles that was coded into the software. Just last year or so ago it reverse engineered the entire system. Russia don’t care.

What Russia doesn’t want is Iran reverse engineering its entire flagship product. Hence why it didn’t want to sell SU-35 to China without assurances. But Iran unlike China doesn’t have the industrial base (or budget) to reverse engineer a SU-35 or MI-28 unless Russia provides direct assistance in some fashion.