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Iranian Drones vs Turkish Drones: Comparing Technology And Efficiency

You have mental issue with jealousy and hatred towards Turkiye

Where are modern AESA Radar and ECM here ?
show me

View attachment 957666

Go and say your tales to copycat Iran

Our Systems are full of Turkish design and technology by ASELSAN , HAVELSAN , ROKETSAN , MKE , TUBITAK-SAGE

and All systems are in service ....

This is state of the art technology on ISTIF class Frigate
CENK-S AESA Radar ... ( range of 400+ km with superior GaN technology )
ARES-2N Electronic Warfare System
View attachment 957669

ADVENT Network Enabled Data Integrated Combat Management System
View attachment 957672

Your backward Countries only can dream about these technologies

Turkiye exported even Corvette-Frigate to Pakistan , Ukraine , Turkmenistan and Indonesia

Pakistan will buy you anything, because if they buy from Iran they would be sanctionated hard by the US.The same goes for Turkmenistan and Indonesia.

The case of Ukraine is different, they give you engines for your subsonic Kizilelma, and you have to give them almost for free and those engines... Ukraine cannot chose vendors they need any shitty weaponry of the world.
Pakistan will buy you anything, because if they buy from Iran they would be sanctionated hard by the US.The same goes for Turkmenistan and Indonesia.

Iran doesnt have high quality modern Weapons ...

Iranian Ship from 1980s technology ... nobody buys low quality old technologies from Iran

Turkish Weapons have high quality Western standard with state of the art technology

The case of Ukraine is different, they give you engines for your subsonic Kizilelma, and you have to give them almost for free and those engines... Ukraine cannot chose vendors they need any shitty weaponry of the world.

Turkiye has its own TF-6.000 turbofan Engine to power supersonic KIZILELMA for test flights in 2025


6.000 lbf Turkish turbofan more powerful than 3.800 lbf Ukranian AI-25 engine
also there will be 10.000 lbf TF-10.000 turbofan Engine to power supersonic KIZILELMA

Ukraine buys MILGEM Warship from Turkiye
because stealth design , high quality western standard , cost effective and on time delivery

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You have mental issue with jealousy and hatred towards Turkiye

Where are modern AESA Radar and ECM here ?
show me
I think you should relax.

with state of the art technology
Who says it's state of the art?

Ukraine buys MILGEM Warship from Turkiye
because stealth design , high quality western standard , cost effective and on time delivery
Do you know how many people buy from ships from Netherlands,Britain,France,Germany,Italy,Spain,USA,South Korea,China?

You sold to Ukraine and Pakistand and you act like you are the best shipbuilder in the world.
I think you should relax.

Stop trolling
and show me where are modern AESA Radar and ECM ?

you can not show ... because Iranian Ship doesnt have modern Radar

Do you know how many people buy from ships from Netherlands,Britain,France,Germany,Italy,Spain,USA,South Korea,China?

We are talking about Turkiye and Iran ...

Turkiye sold 4+4+2+4 Warships .. ( Pakistan , Ukraine , Turkmenistan , Indonesia )

and agreement for the sale of 3 ADA class Corvettes to Malaysia is very close

also Turkiye sold 2 Combat Training Ships (CTS) to Qatar ,, ( 90 m and 1.950 tons )

also Turkiye sold 2 OPVs to Nigeria .. ( 77 m and 1.100 tons )

also Turkiye sold 1 Fleet Tanker to Pakistan Navy .. ( 155m and 15,600 tons )

also Turkiye’s TAIS won the tender 5 fleet support Ships ( 45.000 tons ) for the Indian Navy ( $2,3 billion ) including technology transfer

Iran = 0
Greece doesnt have even Naval Industry
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Who says it's state of the art?

ASELSAN says which is a giant defense company and in top 50 list and exports to 84 Countries

Top Defense Companies in AESA Radars , Electronic Warfare Systems , E/O Systems , Microelectronics ,Avionic and Navigation Systems , Hard-Soft kill Torpedo Countermeasure Systems , etc

Northrop Grumman and Raytheon USA
BAE Systems THE UK
Leonardo ITALY

Elbit Systems ISRAEL


Iran only can dream about it

Aselsan Infrared Photodetectors ....... ( only The US,Israel,France,Turkiye )
-- HgCdTe
-- InSb
-- InGaAs


Aselsan microbolometer-type infrared detector .. ( only a few countries )


Aselsan High Success Multi Precessor CPU Card

Aselsan KATMER (multilayer microwave ceramic technology)

Aselsan nano transistor technology based on gallium nitride semiconductor material

Aselsan REDET-II next gen Radar Electronic Warfare System

Turkiye REDET-II and Israel SCORPIUS

Hava-SOJ stand off Jammer and SIGINT aircraft is being modified by ASELSAN
only USA , UK , Israel , Russia , Turkiye and France


Aselsan ASELPOD next gen Targeting Pod ( USA,Turkiye,Israel,France )

Aselsan AVCI and TULGAR Next gen helmet-mounted display system
( USA,The UK,Israel,Turkiye,France )


Aselsan AESA Radars with GAN technology






Aselsan AKKOR active protection System for Tanks ( Israel , Turkiye , Russia )

Aselsan TORK hard kill Torpedo Countermeasure System ..( only a few countries )
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ASELSAN says which is a giant defense company and in top 50 list and exports to 84 Countries

Top Defense Companies in AESA Radars , Electronic Warfare Systems , E/O Systems , Microelectronics ,Avionic and Navigation Systems , Hard-Soft kill Torpedo Countermeasure Systems , etc

Northrop Grumman and Raytheon USA
BAE Systems THE UK
Leonardo ITALY

Elbit Systems ISRAEL


Iran only can dream about it

Aselsan Infrared Photodetectors ....... ( only The US,Israel,France,Turkiye )
-- HgCdTe
-- InSb
-- InGaAs
View attachment 957727
View attachment 957748
Aselsan microbolometer-type infrared detector .. ( only a few countries )
View attachment 957735
View attachment 957747
Aselsan High Success Multi Precessor CPU Card
View attachment 957728
Aselsan KATMER (multilayer microwave ceramic technology)
View attachment 957729
Aselsan nano transistor technology based on gallium nitride semiconductor material
View attachment 957731
Aselsan REDET-II next gen Radar Electronic Warfare System

Turkiye REDET-II and Israel SCORPIUS
View attachment 957736
Hava-SOJ stand off Jammer and SIGINT aircraft is being modified by ASELSAN
only USA , UK , Israel , Russia , Turkiye and France
View attachment 957745
View attachment 957746
Aselsan ASELPOD next gen Targeting Pod ( USA,Turkiye,Israel,France )
View attachment 957742
Aselsan AVCI and TULGAR Next gen helmet-mounted display system
( USA,The UK,Israel,Turkiye,France )
View attachment 957733
View attachment 957734
Aselsan AESA Radars with GAN technology
View attachment 957737
View attachment 957738
View attachment 957741
View attachment 957739
View attachment 957740
View attachment 957744
Aselsan AKKOR active protection System for Tanks ( Israel , Turkiye , Russia )

Aselsan TORK hard kill Torpedo Countermeasure System ..( only a few countries )
View attachment 957749
I'm curious,what do our Iranian friends here have to reply to this?
Greece doesnt have even Naval Industry
Greece had a naval industry before Turkey had democracy. It only got ruined the last 12-15 years.

You keep bragging and bragging,like @Sineva showed us "dick measuring" every day,all day. Turkey this and Turkey that. Well guess what? Iran has been under heavy sanctions and restrictions for decades. Turkey has been given all sorts of freedom to copy stuff from here and there. Copy of Oto Melara gun,copy of Millenium CIWS,copy of this,copy of that and in the end "We have great Turkish defence industry,what do others have?"

Well done. Nobody would have bitched so much about it or pointed that out,if you were a bit more humble and didn't go around every single day on the forum,dick measuring and trying to prove how "pathetic" every country is compared to "regional superpower Turkiye".
We now have a Ballistic Missile with a range of 2000 km

Very soon
You can see the Ramp size of CENK Ballistic Missile ( MRBM )

Pakistan 2.000 km Shaheen-2 Ballistic Missile ( MRBM )
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Turkey has been given all sorts of freedom to copy stuff from here and there. Copy of Oto Melara gun,copy of Millenium CIWS,copy of this,copy of that and in the end "We have great Turkish defence industry,what do others have?"

China and Iran copies everything
Iranian FAJR-27 is copy of Oto Melera 76mm Gun

but Turkiye can not copy anything ,, because of IP rights
and NATO Countries can heavy saction on Turkiye

if Turkiye copy their weapons
We have international agreements

and I showed You state of the art products of ASELSAN ( only a few countries in the world )
Nobody gives critical technologies to muslim Turkiye

only one example
ASELSAN has developed quantum well infrared Photodetectors in 15 years
( only The US,Israel,France,Turkiye )

Greece had a naval industry before Turkey

Go develop even a Corvette ,,, then come and talk about Greek Naval Industry

Turkish Mahmudiye Galleon, which was built in Istanbul in 1828 and was the largest sailing warship in the world for 20 years

with 128 cannons
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Go develop even a Corvette ,,, then come and talk about Greek Naval Industry
When we were building ships,you were riding horses in Central Asia. How's that?

And you come like a fart and boast "WE MAKE SHIPS" .....sure,the last 20 years.

The Greeks have been a maritime nation since antiquity, as the mountainous landscape of the mainland, and the limited farming area and the extended coastline of Greece led people to shipping. The geographical position of the region on the crossroads of ancient sea lanes in the eastern Mediterranean, the multiplicity of islands and the proximity to other advanced civilizations helped shape the maritime nature of the Greek nation at an early stage. In Greece and the wider Aegean, international trade existed from the Minoan and Mycenean times in the Bronze Age. The presence of goods such as pottery, gold, copper objects far away from their area of provenance attests to this wide-ranging network of shipping transport and trade that existed between the Greek mainland and the Greek islands .[8] The Greeks soon came to dominate the maritime trade in the region, gradually expanding it along the shores of the Mediterranean to Egypt, Phoenicia, Asia Minor, the Black Sea, and establishing colonies. The prowess of the ancient Greek navy was primarily displayed in naval battles during the Persian wars, the Delian League era and the Peloponnesian war. In the following centuries, a large part of the sea trade of the Roman Empire was carried out by the Greeks, while they continued to be involved and play a major role in shipping during the era of the Byzantine Empire as well.


The historic, rather than the pre-historic period of the Greek merchant marine starts a.about 1104 BC, when the Dorians descended on Greece. As of this date the inhabitants o.Greece are called Elines (Hellenes). The social upheaval that took place in that periodmomentarily slowed expansion of the Greek merchant marine, and it took approximatelythree centuries before the Greek marine was prominent again.
The nautical advances and colonialism of the historic period was due to the independence and progress of the Greek city-states. The return to dominance of the seas by theGreeks was because of the need to colonize, the need and the natural inclination to tradeacross the seas, and for political freedom and freedom of the spirit.

Colonialism was at its height at about the 8th century BC, both because they wanted tosend to new fertile lands the overspill from the increase in their cities' population, but alsobecause they wanted to expand their activities in the sea trade.

The Greeks in contrast with the Phoenicians, by colonizing, did not want to profit throughviolence and stealing, but instead this was a sign and an expression of their love foradventure and the discovery of new places, as well as of their nautical instincts.

In certain cases, colonies were established for the sole purpose of ensuring that themother city-state had a monopoly on the produce of the region. The colonies of Fasis andPityous in the Black Sea ensured the tar and the lumber of the Caucasus, and those oldCrimean grain from Russia.

During the colonization period and up to the 4th century BC, the Greek merchant fleetsailed throughout the Mediterranean, from Syria and Cyprus through the Bosphorus and intothe Black Sea, and from Libya through Italy to Spain. The maritime tradition of the Greeksand their high degree of seamanship is primarily due to what the Greeks achieved during thehistoric period; in other words, during the rise, the strengthening and the dominance of thecity-states and the development of the fleet and/or the merchant marine of each. In thehistory of each city-state one finds the reasons why the Greeks created and established aseamanship and a maritime tradition that has lasted through the ages until today.

The most famous cities for their successful merchant fleets of the Doric period, areCorinth, Megara, Chios, Samos, Fokaia, Militos, Syracuse, and of course Athens.

Fokaia's success was such that her merchant ships, using Ischia as their foreign base,sailed all along the Spanish coast and even ventured into the Atlantic, and that was morethan 2,500 years' ago.

Syracuse, also one of the industrious Greek cities, which was a colony established byCorinth and Megara in about 850 BC, was for five centuries a center of shipping with a verystrong shipping industry, of many successful shipyards for Triireis, the warships of the day, alarge merchant fleet, and a trade center for grain. Merchants from Marseilles, Italy, Greece,the Cyclades and other places, came to Syracuse to buy grain. Another factor in thesuccessful creation by the Greeks of a maritime tradition was the Amfiktioniai, a kind oftrade association formed by the city-states. They were originally thought of as religiousassociations but eventually they became trade associations and associations for the protection of their sea trades, their merchant fleets and the cities themselves.

From the Greek maritime history point of view, the most important associations werethose of Kalavrias and Dilou. The first was founded by the famous seaman Nafplios andAthens, Aigina, Epidavros, Ermioni, Nafplion, Prasiai and Orchomenos were the members.The second was founded by Theseus with Dilos as a base.

Athens of course, as we said previously, was perhaps the biggest influence on thedevelopment of Greek shipping since pre-historic times. Their political strength, their strongcolonies such as Militos, Fokaia and Samos grew to almost equal prestige, strength andmaritime power as Athens, and they created their own colonies and expanded the sea tradeto faraway lands. The most notable citizens of Athens who are basically responsible forestablishing the maritime tradition of Athens, are Peisistratos and especially Themistoclesbetween 561-461 BC Themistocles is considered as the most prominent maritime personality of Athens, and one of the most famous in maritime history. He believed that the futureof Athens was in the sea, and he devoted his energies in establishing for Athens a secure,commercial harbor (Piraeus) and in expanding her merchant marine. He also pushed veryhard to convince his fellow Athenians to build a strong navy which they could pay for throughthe income they received from Lavrion mines, so their merchant ships could be protected.This they did, by building 100 Triireis.

The third factor was that he was successful in imposing a mandatory service of allAthenians on board the warships, thus creating a large pool of very able seamen. All theseprograms established by Themistocles proved to be extremely beneficial not just forAthens, but for the Greek merchant marine as a whole. As Athens quickly became a verypowerful maritime state, they won important battles at sea, kept Greece free, came tocontrol the maritime trade of more than 300 cities, and they made certain that the sea lanesremained open for the sea trade. Piraeus became the largest maritime center where manufactured goods and other commodities were stored and traded, and where merchants madeagreements to transport cargoes. In other words, "The Baltic".

Athens profited from the merchant marine, also because of taxes and different levies. Allcommodities going through Piraeus, either being imported or exported were taxed by 2percent on their value or 5 percent if they were destined for a friendly port, whilst all freightsfor transactions concluded in Piraeus were taxed 6 percent. The Athens grain trade of thatperiod is estimated at 150,000 tons a year of which 50,000 tons was re-exported. Not asmall figure, by any means, for the merchant marine of the day, when one considers the sizeof the ships which had to carry this quantity, the fact that they only sailed during spring andsummer, and given the slow speed and the great distances they had to cover.

Just for one round trip to the Black Sea, a vessel needed several weeks, under favorableconditions. They had to load cargoes for the northbound voyage, get there under sail, reload,and thus sail both legs in a loaded condition. Ballast voyages were not contemplated then.They also stopped in other ports on both northbound and southbound voyages for partcargoes, and it was therefore improbable for a ship to do more than two round trips per year.For each loading of grain from Russia, for example, the shippers prepared a Bill of Lading, akind of inventory of merchandise loaded (as they said) and when the vessel reached theBosphorus this was checked by the authorities there, who informed Piraeus of which ship,her type, and what quantity of cargoes to expect.

The shipowners and merchants obtained money for their investments from rich citizensand bankers, through a loan agreement. This was always a written agreement, which wasgiven to a mutually trusted person for safe-keeping. The repayment of the loan was madewithin 20 days from arrival in Piraeus, and provided that the cargo was not damaged. If partof it was damaged, lost, jettisoned, or stolen, the money lender received both capital andinterest in proportion to the value of the sound cargo remaining. Of course as one canunderstand, the rates were high because the bankers shared in most of the marine risksinvolved. For a Crimean round voyage, the interest was between 22 1/2 and 30 percent. Ascollateral the banker required a mortgage on the ship, on the cargo, on the seamen on boardprovided they were slaves, and the loan could only be half the value of the cargo. There wasalso a personal guarantee for if the Owner could not repay his debt, and the proceeds of thesale of ship and cargo by the banker were not enough, he was liable for everything else hehad, not just his wealth in shipping, but all his property ashore, as well. In addition to all thisa guarantor was also required, who would guarantee the Owner and pay the Owner's debtsin case of default.

The maritime policies of Athens are the first in history to provide regulations for theshipping industry. Athens invoked protective measures, special laws, political and financialmeasures to expand and sustain their maritime superiority, their shipping industry and seatrade. Within this system individual initiative was free to act, and free from any interventionby the state. The state laid down some rules concerning the organization of the industry butdid not otherwise interfere. The entire sea trade was done by and for the benefit of theshipowners, the seamen, and the merchants, whilst the state only regulated and stayed awayfrom direct involvement. There was a system for quickly resolving differences, througharbitration and the courts; the system otherwise generally provided for free enterpriseAthens was many centuries ahead of her time in the measures she took for shipping, and wesee the signs and the results of those initiatives today.

The merchant ships were designed specifically for carrying as much cargo as possiblethat is why they were wide and deep, in contrast to the long and thin warships.

There were three types of vessel basically, one of about 130 tons, another of about 25(3tons and the third of about 400 tons. They all used sails during the voyage and oars formaneuvering in the ports. They had no decks.

From 322 BC, after the sea battle of Amorgos, Athens' Maritime power declined, and herrole in shipping was taken by Rhodes; Piraeus lost ground to Alexandria, Militos and Smyrnito Efessos and Foiniki to Syria.


Alexander the Great's conquests opened new horizons for shipping since he expandedthe Greek influence to Asia, and through his trusted friend, Admiral Nearchos, establishednew ports from India to the Persian Gulf. Alexander did not limit himself to conquering agreat part of Asia but he also organised the trade by sea from those countries.
The ports that were created in India were provided with very large storage facilities sothat the produce from the nearby regions could be brought there for trans-shipment by sea.Before Alexander, Indian goods were shipped only in small quantities, overland, and hencethey were very expensive in the Mediterranean markets. Since Alexander, the merchantships carried large quantities of Indian produce to the Persian Gulf, more cheaply. India wasnow also able to receive European products through the same routing.

In general, a new period for Greek shipping emerges, with the end of the classical timesin Greece. New, bigger countries became prominent, city-states lost influence, larger areaswith greater populations had to be catered for, and therefore the size of ships increased.

Alexandria, which as we saw took over from Piraeus as the centre for shipping, eventuallybecame a very cosmopolitan city, populated mostly by Greeks and Egyptians, and then byscores of other races.

The first lighthouse for shipping was built on Faros island, in the port of Alexandria, andhence the word "faros" meaning, in Gieek, lighthouse. The lighthouse was 120 metres highthe light was visible from 40 miles, and mirrors were used to reflect and increase theintensity of light. It was built in 280 B.C.

The policy of the Ptolemeoi concerning the merchant marine were very different to thatof Athens, in that there was gross interference by the State.

At the same time that Alexandria was becoming a very strong maritime centre, Rhode'scontribution to shipping reached its peak.Their efforts in this respect, since they were notreally producers themselves in any large quantity, given the size of the island, were to be atrans-shipment centre, and with the advantage of their geographical position, this theymanaged to do successfully for centuries. Like Athens, they charged 2 percent on allcargoes going through the island and they encouraged a close relationship between theshipowners, the merchants and the bankers.This levy raised 1,000,000 drachmas a year; avery large sum of money for that period. Rhodes started to decline after a very destructiveearthquake in 225 B.C., and later in 167 B.C., when the Romans, who had by now started tobecome more active in the maritime affairs of the Mediterranean, proclaimed Delos as a freeport.


The Greek city-states' maritime power in general declined during the Roman period, butonly to the extent of calling it maritime power, because as a race, the Greeks continued tobe very much involved in merchant shipping. Rome conquered Macedonia in 168 B.C., therest of Greece in 146, Syria in 65 and Egypt effectively from 31, which meant that she hadconquered all the then known world. This however did not mean that the Romans turned tothe sea.
Roman strict customs did not allow its citizens to become merchants or shipowners.However, Rome did need the services of a merchant marine, and although later on in theirhistory they relaxed their rules out of necessity and greed, they did have to rely on thetraditional maritime people, the Greeks, to carry out the sea trade.Thus, the maritime policyof Rome was to ensure for these traditional maritime people and their ships, freedom of theseas and freedom of their maritime trade. This they did through a number of measures suchas building new ports, upgrading existing ones, opening canals, installing lighthouses, andabove all, protecting the merchant ships, especially from pirates.

It is interesting to note at this point that during Roman times, we see the beginning of thepassenger and tourist trade who travelled on board merchant ships. This came about because of the frequent and regular trips of merchant ships given ports, but also becauseRome having conquered the ?Yorld, brought peace, especially all along the Mediterranean andthe European Atlantic coasts. Merchants travelled to buy merchandise and close deals, theunemployed to seek work, soldiers going on leave, public servants being sent to a new post,and scores of Romans going on holiday to Athens, Corinth, Delphi, Rhodes and to theAegean Islands to see these historic places and to attend the Olympic Games and otherGreek festivals. A substantial number also came to Greece to study, one of whom was noneother than Julius Caesar who went to Rhodes to read law. The merchant ships during thosetimes, especially those for grain, increased in size, basically because of the larger populationof Rome, because of the increase in distances, and as a better defence against the pirates.Thus Emperor Augustus suggested to the Greek shipowners in Alexandria, to build largervessels. It seems that some were as large as 1,300 tons DW. It is interesting to note that theRoman Emperor suggested, did nat order, the Greek shipowners, which meant that heprobably thought they knew best as to which ships should be built.

The owners would operate either as today in other words to charter their vessels tomerchants and receive the freight, or they would also act as the shippers and the receiversof the cargo. If they chartered their vessels, Charter Parties were signed, containing termsvery similar to today's, such as the name of the owner, the DW of the ship, the amount offreight and when itshould be paid, thetype or types of cargoes to be loaded, the numberofdays allowed for loading and discharging, the demurrage, the fact that the owner had to equiphis vessel properly for the voyage, engage the required crew and carry the cargo in anundamaged and dry condition. Very familiar words indeed. The only exception was that thename of the Master was also written in the Charter Party.

So, as we have seen, the Romans relied on the traditional maritime people, especially theGreeks from Greece and their colonies, not only for their seamanship and their knowledgebut also because of their experience in shipping, accumulated and refined primarily duringClassical times.


Thus, we come to the year 330 A.D., when Constantinople was celebrated as the capitalof Byzantium. Constantinople was of course a very old commercial harbour and eventuallybecame the heart of the Byzantine sea trade. Greeks were by far the biggest majority in thepopulation of Byzantium, they had retained their influence on this eastern part of the RomanEmpire and thus were again able to expand and further develop their activities in shipping,and to create once more a long period of maritime history.
Again we find that from the tradition and all the other attributes we talked about, it wasthe policies in shipping which Byzantium adopted, that greatly assisted in the success of theGreek merchant marine through the centuries that followed.

Emperor Nikiforos in 803 A.D., founded the first marine bank in history. The bank wouldloan captains and shipowners for the building of ships and charge 17 percent interest.

There was a Ministry of Mercantile Marine, which exercised the necessary control overthe merchant marine, which would measure the ships, establish the ownership, register thevessels and keep a register of accredited captains.

Also in the Byzantine era they established the mutual insurance, i.e. the P & I clubs, lawsconcerning insurance claims, maritime loans, the responsibilities of the shipowner, and reg-ulations that govern the relationship between the owner and his crew. But as history repeatsitself, there had to come a time from about the 8th Century A.D., that the decline of theByzantine Empire started, first by allotting responsibilities for the sea trade in the Mediterranean to Italian cities, like Amalfi, Genoa and Venice, and also because the Arabs werebecoming stronger.

From the 13th century, Byzantium lost substantial power and influence to the Italian citiesand the Greek merchant marine reached a very low point in its history, although Greekseamen continued to play an important role by serving on foreign ships.

On the eve of the Ottoman conquest, conditions in Byzantium would lead one to assumethat Greek maritime activity was insignificant. Long before the Fall of Constantinople, theByzantine Emperors became puppets in the hands of the Italian commercial republics,notably Genoa and Venice. With the Empire's trade completely ruined, we can hardly speakof a maritime economy. Whatever maritime activity was still in Greek hands, was of a localnature and economically inconsequential, as both external and regional coastal trade wasnow in the hands of the Italians.

Because of this downfall of the Byzantine economy, the Venetians and the Turks were thebeneficiaries of the skills of the Greek craftsmen and seamen of the coastal regions of theAegean and the Black Sea. Having lost its economic vitality, Constantinople was unable tocontinue her naval tradition; commerce, shipbuilding and specialisation in navigation, had nowpassed to foreign hands. In the islands. however, under Venetian, Genoese and even Turkishdomination or occupation, shipbuilding continued. The Greek islanders ranked among thefinest galley builders in the first half of the 15th century.

Thus, the Greek merchant marine became almost insignificant until the 16th century,although it was really in the 18th century that its activities were diversified and expanded.This was as a direct outcome of the emergence of a powerful Ghristian merchant class thatwas able to capture not only the local and the regional trade but also that of the EasternMediterranean, South Russia and part of Central Europe.


The emergence of this Christian merchant was basically due to the social changesbrought about by the conquests of the Ottoman Empire. The 100 year period that beginswith the Fall of Constantinople and ends with the death of Suleyman the Legislator, in 1566,is marked by the phenomenal expansion of the Ottoman Empire. It was a century of almostcontinual success that brought the Ottomans to the zenith of their power. During the reign ofMehmed the 11 (1451-1481), Ottoman rule was extended over the entire Balkan peninsula,with only a few important islands, including Crete and Cyprus, remaining in Venetian hands,while the Knights of St. John and the Genoese maintained their positions at Rhodes andChios respectively.
By 1566 both Chios and Rhodes had fallen to the Ottomans and within a few yearsCyprus too, was destined to the same fate. The expansion of Ottoman rule over the Balkanpeninsula, which had been ravaged by centuries of near-anarchy and constant conflictamong Byzantines, Venetians, Serbs, Bulgarians and Genoese, brought at last a semblanceof unity, peace and security.

A new social structure was established that created considerable social mobility which inturn permitted the resumption of agricultural activity, almost suspended during the period ofanarchy that preceded the Ottoman conquest, stimulated local and regional trade, andcreated conditions favourable to the growth of a commercial class.

Another basic factor in the productive elements of Ottoman society, such as the tillers ofthe soil and the craftsmen, the merchants enjoyed a privileged position. While the craftsmanand the farmer worked under strict regulation of the production and sale of their goods, themerchant had greater freedom in the accumulation of capital. A lesson, I believe, for somepeople in governments around the world, and a lesson repeated in history many times butunfortunately ignored, very much to the detriment of their fellow countrymen. But to comeback to history.

The merchant's privileged position was determined by the function he exercised in theeconomy. Not only was he indispensable in international and inter-regional trade, but he alsosupplied raw materials for local industries and above all, foodstuffs. Commerce proved to bethe most effective way of capital accumulation, thus becoming the most profitable field forinvestment. Through the various functions it fulfilled, the merchant class formed an indispensable element in the state, and thus the state and the law accorded it a privileged position.

Whilst it is difficult to assess with any precision the economic life of the Ottoman Empire,it is certain that the State consciously encouraged the Greek and other Balkan merchants toexpand their trade with the West through the Balkan overland routes, as well as by way ofthe Adriatic and the Danube. Another stimulus to the expansion of commercial activity wasthe inability of Venice, weakened by her naval wars with Turkey, to monopolise the Adriaticcommerce.

The Greek merchant class began to play an important role in the economic life of theEmpire immediately following the Fall of Constantinople. For instance, in 1477 we find a fiveman consortium of Greeks, outbidding their Muslim competitors in purchasing the customsagencies of the ports of Constantinople, Galata, Gallipoli, as well as other ports along theAegean, for the sum of 450,000 ducats, a considerable fortune when one considers that theentire revenue of Venice from her Balkan and Eastern Mediterranean dominions in 1469, was180,000 ducats, less than half of what the Greeks had spent. Thus being in a position tosecure such income for rapid accumulatiom of capital, the Greek merchant class grewrapidly.

By the end of the 15th century, the Greeks were active not only in internal commerce, butalso in international trade extending from the Black Sea, the Adriatic and Italy to Marseilles,Antwerp and Moscow. Ancona had a phenamenal growth as a major, international tradingcentre during the first half of the 16th century, and it was one of the first commercial centresoutside the Balkans which attracted a considerable number of Greeks. By the middle of the16th century, there were about 200 Greek houses already established in Ancona.

With this general background in respect to the activities of the Greek merchants, let usnow turn to shipping proper.

With respect to the direct involvement of Greeks in interregional maritime commerce wehave no precise data. Although Greek ships were to be found in Eastern ports as well as inAlexandria and Venice, Ragusans and Venetians almost entirely monopolised the trade of theOttoman Empire with the West, at least during the first half of the 15th century; the French,English and Dutch entered the picture later. However, Greek maritime commerce in theAdriatic was quite prominent at this time. Also, the maritime economy of Livorno during thesecond half of the 16th century further supports the assumption as to Greek shippingparticipating in the trade beyond the central Mediterranean. Between 1573 and 1593, shipsreported as arriving in Livorno from Zakyntho, Crete, Chio, Constantinople and Alexandria,were listed as Greek, French, etc., but determining the ownership of the vessels co~ing fromthe Greek islands was very difficult because of the fact that they were manned either whollyor in part by Greeks. It seems that four centuries ago things were not very much differentthan what they are today, in determining the ownership of ships. It must be the usage of thetrade, as they say in the Baltic, and perhaps most significantly, as we have already seen fromhistory up to now, the need to be free and independent, the only climate that is conduciveto the growth and success of free trade, free enterprise and of course shipping.

The Greeks also increased their influence and took advantage of the situation to expandtheir shipping activities and trade, because of some of the events in the Europe of the 16thcentury.

The population of Europe was increasing rapidly, and hence the demand for grain wasalso mounting at a tremendous pace. Portugal was in desperate need for grain, havingsuffered six famines between 1560 and 1600. The Turkish-Spanish War wrought havoc tothe trade, and both Constantinople and Italy needed grain badly. Thus, the growth of commerce and of shipping in the Aegean and especially Greece, was provided with an importantstimulus.

Salonica, Volos, Preveza and other smaller ports, regularly exported grain to the West. Inspite of all attempts by the Ottoman Government to regulate the movement of grain, the illicittrade flourished. The beneficiaries were the producers, but especially the Greek merchantsand shipowners. The fast, light caiques were the Greek grain carriers of the Aegean. Theillicit grain trade was one of the most lucrative activities of the Greeks, enabling them, as weshall see later, to amass considerable fortunes.

At the time the Balkans came under Ottoman control, most of the Aegean islands wereunder Venetian and Genoese occupation, and the Archipelago was infested with pirates,which presented a serious threat to Ottoman commerce. Consequently, the Turks embarkedon naval campaigns to try to clear this problem.

The existing social-economic conditions in the islands under the Italians, facilitatedTurkish efforts. The feudal system imposed by the Italian republics was much more oppressive than the Turkish rule at the time. There was harsh economic exploitation by the Italians,heavy taxation and religious oppression, and it is thus a matter of record that the Greeksrarely came to the support of their Italian masters but instead, frequently collaborated withthe Turks. This was later justified, for once the authority af the Turks was established overthe Greek islands, the situation changed dramatically. People returned to re-populate theislands, and a semblance of peace prevailed in the Aegean. Under Turkey, taxation was lesssevere, and most of the islands were given considerable privileges which eventually amounted to autonomy.

All the measures of a freer economy were calculated to encourage individual enterprise,make the'islands economically productive and thereby profit the state. Words or policies thatare true and correct in any period in history that we may be talking about. Characteristic ofthe Turkish policy at the time is the following directive by the BEYLERBEY of Cyprus:

"As the island of Cyprus, newly-conquered by my invincible army, is exhausted from war,I order that the inhabitants of this province be oppressed in no way, that justice be administered with leniency, and that taxes be levied with moderation, so that the island may regainits former splendour and prosperity".

It is clear, therefore, that the establishment and the different policies of the OttomanEmpire, were beneficial to the Greeks of the time and gave them the opportunity to play animportant role in the economy of Europe. The revival of the economic life of the Aegeaninevitably entailed the rapid growth of maritime activity.

Also, as we have seen in maritime, pre-historic times, piracy had played an important role.Equally, piracy during this period was instrumental in the initial, capital accumulation amongGreek mariners. The Greek pirates became more prominent in the beginning of the 16thcentury, either working independently or in collaboration with others. Some of those whostarted as fishermen and small-time pirates, attained immense power, such as the Barbarossa brothers, of Greek origin. During the second half of the century, the Greek pirates cameinto their own, one of the most notable Cretan pirates being Manousos Theotokopoulos,Domenico's brother.

In the Greek islands, piracy became an integral part of the local economy, an accumula-tion of capital that eventually was invested in proper maritime enterprises. It would bedifficult to visualise a regional merchant marine emerging out of an economy allowing smallmargins for the accumulation of capital.The pirates, both Greeks and Western Europeans,had established an economic relationship with the local people, especially the merchantswho bought pirate goods cheaply, as well as with the Turkish authorities.

Occasionally, pirates would operate with the protection of local authorities or persons ofwealth. In some cases, piracy seems to have been a communal enterprise and some islands,such as Milos, Kimolos and Mykonos, became prosperous as a result of their specialrelationship with pirates. Yioura, Amorgos, Skopelos, Skiathos, los, Hydra, Spetses, Tinos,Psara and others, also had special relationships with pirates. In brief, piracy was intimatelyrelated to the regional economy of Greece, allowed for the accumulation of capital, supplemented and indirectly supported legitimate, commercial ventures, and thus was instrumentalin the development of the Balkan merchant and the Greek merchant marine.

What we have said so far is, what was happening during the first years, so to speak, ofthe Ottoman Empire, i.e. approximately until the end of the 16th century.

The years and the decades that followed, saw the beginning of the downfall of theEmpire. The Treaty of Karlowitz in 1699 represents the end of an era and a turning point inthe history of South East Europe.

Whilst the question of the declineof the economic life of the Mediterranean remains acontroversial issue, it is clear that the emergence of the oceanic trade routes opened newhorizons in shipping. The establishment of the European merchants and shipowners in theprincipal Ottoman ports and their virtual monoply of commerce in association with theGreeks (Ottoman subjects), had a damaging influence on the economic life of the Empire.These merchants and shipowners were the beneficiaries of the economic crisis.

The Greeks were the suppliers of the raw materials of the whole Balkan peninsula, andcontrolled most of the trade and shipping with Egypt, the Aegean islands and ContinentalGreece. From simple carriers and local merchants, the Greeks were now assuming the roleof shipping agents, handling goods for foreign accounts, as well as importers and distributorsof goods to their final markets. Of course, in the beginning their activities in internationaltrade were still restricted, since most of the seaborne commerce was in the hands of theEnglish, Dutch, French, and others.

A brief examination of the economic setting of Constantinople at this period, gives us alsosome insight into the maritime, commercial organisation of the Empire and the Greekmerchant fleet.

Constantinople, the administrative and military centre of an immense empire, was thelargest city in Europe at the turn of the 17th century, with a population of approximately700,000. The bulk of the goods imported were destined for the provisioning of the City andthe armed forces. The concentric character of this City's trade served as a strong stimulusto the rapid growth of an indigenous merchant class, which controlled the domestic market;the exclusion of all foreign shipping from the Black Sea was also instrumental to thestrengthening of this class, predominantly Greek, and to the development of a sizeable Greekmerchant marine. Despite the importance of the land routes, Constantinople, between 1592and 1783, depended primarily on such a merchant marine. Local traffic alone connectingConstantinople and Galata, required a considerable number of small craft. It is estimated thatduring the second half of the 17th century, approximately 15 to 16,000 peramas and caiquesalong with other types of vessels, were needed for local transportation. Here again, theGreeks played a very important role. One account gives us a good picture of the immensemaritime activity of the period. There were 2,000 and some say 9,000 captains of the BlackSea, and 3,000 captains of the Mediterranean, mainly Greek.

It is said that the shipowners who resided at Yeni Koy were for the most part Greeks,possessing enormous fortunes. This is entirely explicable given the advantageous position ofthe Greeks, who not only controlled the interregional and coastal shipping, but were also ina commanding position geographically. Greeks were to be found everywhere from the BlackSea to Alexandria as merchants, mariners, shipowners and shipping agents. Their centre ofactivity was Galata, and the Aegean and the Black Sea constituted their bases of operation.The grain trade, and especially the illicit grain traffic, was their most profitable activity.Indeed, the grain trade was a Greek quasi-monoply placing them in the position to manipulate the market to their advantage. The international commerce at that time was however stillin the hands of the other Europeans. As a rule, the Greek merchant marine of the Ottomanera was not only involved in distant voyages, but rather restricted to the coastal shipping ofthe Aegean and the Black Sea, although ships belonging to Patmos and Castelorizo in thefirst half of the 17th century did venture as far as Italy.

Of course, all of what we have talked about so far was only one side of the coin, oneinsight to the rise and later the domination of the Greeks as a world maritime power.

At the turn of the century (around 1700) and during the whole of the 18th century, theconsolidation of political power by the Greeks helped the expansion of Greek Mercantileactivity. During the 18th century, wealthy Greeks secured a virtual monopoly of influentialposts in the Ottoman bureaucracy and for more than a century they monopolised manypositions, one of which was that of Under-Secretary of the Navy, Dragoman of the Fleet. Asfinanciers, merchants, and now politicians, they constituted a very influential class whichsafeguarded and expanded class interests and contributed to the growth of the mercantileactivities of the Greeks. Also, early in the 18th century, the Phanariotes expanded theirbanking activities, challenging successfully the Jewish and American banking monopolies.By the end of the century Greek bankers were active in practically every importantcommercial centre of the Empire and at the beginning of the 19th century, they wereestablished in Vienna and South Russia. By this time the Greek merchant mariners themselves had extended their activities beyond the Balkans into Italy, a traditional commercialcentre for the Greeks into the rest of Europe anc' England. Undoubtedly the growth of Greekeconomic power contributed to the expansion of Greek shipping, to the extent that by theend of the 18th century, the Greek merchant marine was able to displace the West.

In addition, the role played by the 18th century, international conflicts in the expansion ofGreek mercantile activity can hardly be overlooked.The mid-century European conflicts,adversely affected the commerce of the naval powers, particularly the French, and createdconditions which proved advantageous for the Greek merchant marine. Of great importancealso was the extension of Russian protection through the protege system to Greek mariners.Navigating under the Russian flag gave them greater security. The Anglo-French wars of thelate 18th and 19th century, eliminated French commerce in the Eastern Mediterranean, thusgiving the Greeks the opportunity to secure their maritime position and expand their activities throughout the Mediterranean. And all this, do not forget, whilst the Greeks were stillunder Turkish occupation.

Destroying each other's seaborne trade was a key policy of the maritime powers duringthe 18th century. The anarchy of the war period rendered difficult the policies of the seasand gave an impetus to piracy. During this period, the Aegean was infested with pirates of allnations and it was then that the Greek piratical enterprise, conducted alongside commerce,reached its climax. Piracy and commerce are parallel interdependent enterprises during theformative period of the Greek merchant marine of the time. Other factors for the expansionof the Greek merchant marine of the mid-18th century, were:

(1) the existence of a surplus of exportable agricultural products
(2) the increasing demand in Western Europe for such agricultural
products from the Balkans
(3) the accumulation and investment of capital in the interregional
commerce, and above all because of
(4) the possibility of investment in the shipping industry under
auspicious competitive conditions which would render maritime
investment profitable, notwithstanding the competition of the
maritime powers.

Rather familiar words and situations, except that now the competitors are of a slightlydifferent breed.

The first, sizeable merchant marine emerged in Western Greece; Messolongi and Galaxidiwere among the first around 1730. It is not surprising that the first Greek merchant marineable to compete with foreign shipping emerged on the western coast of Greece, an areacommercially connected with Messina, Ancona and Livorno where England's position waspredominant. Nor is it an accident that Theodosios Panou, a leading merchant of Yiannena,was able to buy two English ships in partnerhip with other Greek merchants, just four yearsafter his appointment as British Consul at Yiannena. This was because unlike the French, theEnglish were willing to accept the participation of foreign merchants and foreign ships in theirendeavour to increase the flow of British goods and promote their export trade. In an effortto secure the cooperation of the Greek merchants, the English were willing to accept Greekinvestment in English ships, a concession which France too was compelled to grant around1740. (Joint ventures, and I guess we can draw some conclusions from them).

History does indeed teach us lessons and we do have examples in history from which wecan learn, from which we can judge and be able to foresee what situations, perhapsunpleasant, might arise in the future.

European Shipowners of today are considering joint ventures with companies of developing nations, especially in the East. Might we draw a parallel with 1740? Or is it inevitable thathistory will repeat itself, no matter what we say.

The entire Greek population of seamen during the long period from the fall of Byzantiumto Independence was present all over Europe. Greeks manned the oars on Venetian vesselsor became officers on Turkish ships. The continuation of the life at sea for the Greeks duringtheir occupation, was not a matter of choosing a profession but an inescapable, irresistablecontinuation of their centuries' old seamanship and tradition. They served with Columbus,Magellan, Cavendish and Drake.

We have seen the perseverance of the Greek people and their compulsive urge tocontinue a life at sea during the occupation, and from the 18th century a new Greekmerchant marine re-emerges, although the people were still not free.

France, for example, tried very hard with protective measures, advantageous economicpolicies, shipbuilding grants and others to build a strong merchant marine, but without muchsuccess, solely because of their lack of tradition amd seamanship.

The Greeks on the other hand, without financial help, without help from the State, ratherthe opposite, without flag, without national cargoes and surrounded by merchant fleets ofstrong nations, did succeed in re-creating a merchant marine.

As we said before, the beginning of this revitalisation started primarily in Corfu, Preveza,Arta, Messolongi and Galaxidi, because of their closer, earlier ties with the Italian cities.Themost prominent bases for shipowners were Galaxidi and Messolongi. In 1764 the Galaxidimerchant marine had 50 ships of 10,000 tons total, and about 1,000 seamen. Messolongi in1770 had 80 ships. Other places which started again to be active in shipping were of coursethe Aegean islands, where for the inhabitants the sea has always been, especially during theoccupation, a natural extension of their habitat. The islanders were never far from a life atsea through the ages. Their unbroken connection with ships helped them tremendously,because when conditions allowed, they were ready to embark in maritime commerce and tobuild large fleets.

Hydra too was among the first to commence the re-vitalisation of the Greek merchantmarine, starting in 1656, followed by Spetses, Andros, Kasos, Psara and Mykonos. Theseislands, which eventually developed even their own maritime laws, had organised theirshipping industry very much like the city states of the classical period. Perhaps their biggestobstacle was that they did not have a flag. They did use a kind of altered Turkish flag, butthey were limited to voyages within Turkish waters. Eventually for voyages to distant places,they used the British flag, the Russian flag and others.

The Greeks of the 18th century also had very close ties primarily out of necessity, in thatthey needed to group their resources together to build or buy ships. These groupings ofcourse would not have worked very well unless the shareholders were living in the same cityor island, and they were perhaps friends or had family-ties. Shareholdrs were basicallycaptains and members of their families or friends and other seamen who had managed tosave from many years at sea. These were the people who formed the basis of the shipowners that eventually built large, family concerns and ended up later in the 20th century to ownthe biggest fleet in the world.

The re-emergence and re-establishment of Greek shipping had been completed by thebeginning of the 19th century. By such time the rejuvenated Greek merchant marine had built2,000 new ships. Many, especially the bigger ships, had been ordered from foreign yards, butHydra, Spetses, Psara, Galaxidi and others, were very busy building ships.

In 1792, the first Greek insurance company was formed in Trieste, followed by others in1808, and 1814 in Odessa.

With every year that passed, progress was rapid. Greek seafarers made a lot of moneybut they also gained further knowledge and experience and they sought to advance andrefine their ships and themselves in warfare against the pirates, as they had no navy to assistthem.

Their efforts required courage and bravery, and these factors together re-awakened theirnational pride and national conscience, which prepared them for the fight to liberate Greece.

Many Greek mariners of that period became very famous, like Andreas Miaoulis. Hebecame captain on his father's merchant ship at the age of 16, and later, in 1822, Admiralof the United Navies of the Greek Islands during the War of Independenct·.

The new, revitalised spirit made the Greek seamen feel freer, the growth of their merchant fleet gave them confidence and their success in fighting off pirates and others to reachtheir destinations with the loaded ships made them feel more independent. Thus, the Greekrevolution was born on the ships of the Greek merchant marine, and their decks were thefirst free soil.

The awakening of the conscience of the Greeks came also as a result of their frequentcontact with the West, which was continuing the Greek civilisation. The crews which sooften reached Europe, saw the life of the free people, their schools, their educationalsystems, their freedom of exp:ession and they were deeply affected. So it was naturaltherefore, coupled with the freedom of spirit of their profession they yearned to be free.

The contribution of the merchant fleet to the liberation of Greece is almost withoutbounds. Apart from all the other factors mentioned, the Greeks had no navy, and thereforetheir merchant ships, without too much effort, became their warships. The seafarers, shipowners and ordinary seamen alike, also gave great sums of money to the war effort.

The losses were devastating. From some 600 ships that started the war, only about 50survived. The merchantmen also stayed away from their traditional commercial roles forabout 10 years, thus losing vast revenue.


As one can imagine, it took Greece years to recover. With the Greek fleet practicallywiped out, the merchant fleets of the West dominated the seas. The now free Greek state,realising the importance of shipping to the nation, tried to help. The old shipyards of Hydra,Spetses, Andros, Skiathos and Galaxidi, commenced with renewed vigour, Thus, from 1834when statistics started, the merchant marine already had 708 ships and by 1851, 1437 shipsof 237,000 gross tons.
From the appearance of the steam-driven ships, the Greek fleet declined somewhat, asthey did not have the larger sums of money required to build them. Thus, the first Greeksteam-driven ships came almost 50 years after the "Clairmont", which is considered the firstreal steamship, and it was the Greek state that ordered them, not the shipowners. There wasalso a lack of confidence in the new ships, and Galaxidi fell victim of such wavering. Oncethey owned 500 vessels, now they are no more.

From about 1870 the Greeks started to buy cargo vessels more frequently. Vallianos, oneof the most famous, was able to order four newbuildings. Generally, however, the lack offunds is evident. Shipowners, captains, seamen and their relatives, united their savings to putup a deposit and buy a ship. By necessity they looked for cheaper vessels; in other words,older vessels. To overcome the difficulties these older ships represented, they economisedseverely and they worked like slaves. The owners sailed with the ships and they were ableto use smaller crews because of their expertise and high seamanship. As a result theymanaged to overcome foreign competition. Thus by 1901 the Greeks had 1,152 sailing shipsof 181,473 grt and 158 steamers of 231,541 grt.

In the years that followed, Greek shipping continued to grow, although it did suffer againsevere setbacks. In the beginning of the First World War, the Greeks had 475 steamers and884 sailing ships of 1,001,116 grt. At the end of the War, 57,5 per cent of their steamshipshad been lost.They had just 205 vessels. In spite of this, however, they did not lose heart.They threw themselves into the fight to rebuild their fleet with new zest. One source ofmoney was insurance recoveries, and in contrast to the past, foreign banks started to lendmoney. The Greek state also made for the first time a big contribution to the revival, bylegislating to return to the Greek owners taxes levied on extra war profits, provided theywould within a certain time limit, buy or order new ships and put up themselves double theamount of the tax. The owners ordered quite a number of ships, but by 1929, when therecession began, they again suffered a big setback.

After the Second World War, the Greek government gave certain guarantees, so that 100Liberties and 7 T2 tankers could be given to Greek owners. This was the beginning of thelatest re-vitalisation of the Greek merchant marine, and in the 30 or so years that followed,they reached the highest peak yet in their very long maritime history of almost 5,000 shipsof 52,000,OPO gross in 1977 or 4,750 ships of over 54,000,000 gross tons in 1981, thelargest fleet in the world. A magnificent achievement indeed.

Thus, we have gone through history, we have heard of reasons, we have seen thestruggles, we have listened to facts, but only one aspect of their character really stands out.The Greeks, who more than any other people in the world, have remained mariners withoutinterruption throughout history; they have loved the sea, they have thought of it as a beautifulelement, they have been happy at sea, a friendly environment for them - an extension ofthemselves. They enjoyed the feeling of independence, and the optimistic outlook it gavethem. They enjoyed its freedom and the freedom of the spirit. So, we have not in fact beentalking about history at all, but about a love affair between the Greeks and the sea, aninseparable couple, two inseparable elements of life.
Are you just showcasing every single shit Turkey produces because you can't accept the drone comparison?

I have already won the UCAV-Unmanned stealth Fighter Jet comparion

is the best Tactical UCAV in the World
AKINCI is the best strategic strike UCAV in the World
KIZILELMA and MQ-28 are only Unmanned stealth Fighter Jets in the World

Iranian UCAVs dont have even AESA Radar

When we were building ships,you were riding horses in Central Asia. How's that?

So funny still dreaming about 2500 years ago
wake up and come back to real world

Greeks are noting in Naval Industry in the last 2.000 years
Greece can not develop/produce even a Corvette now

TURKS built Warships to fight whole European Powers combined for centuries since the 16th century

Even Turkish Mahmudiye Galleon, which was built in Istanbul in 1828 and was the largest sailing warship in the world for 20 years

-- Turkiye has the best Naval Industry in the region
Patrol Boat
Fast attack Missile Boat
EW Ship
Submarine Rescue Mother Ship (MOSHIP)
Super Tanker
also soon Destroyer

-- Turkish shipbuilding industry one of the best in the world
Turkiye has 83 Shipyards
Turkiye has 585 places for Ship production, with a capacity to produce 700,000 tons of steel every year and to build 4.5 million deadweight tons of ships ( after China,S.Korea and Japan )

there are 34 Freight and Container Ships ( 1,6 million DWT ) orders to Turkish shipyards from worldwide

Turkish RMK Marine built 7,000 dwt Chemical Tanker fot The UK

Turkish Kuzey Star Shipyard built Russia's first LNG-powered RO-RO Ship for FSUE Rosmorport in Tuzla, Istanbul

Turkiye produce Ships up to 300m
biggest Powership in the world

-- Turkiye ranks 4th among the world’s luxury yacht producers with 10% of the large yacht production
I have already won the UCAV-Unmanned stealth Fighter Jet comparion
Who proclaimed you the winner?

So funny still dreaming about 2000-2500 years ago
wake up and come back to real world
So funny,you didn't read anything I posted in the previous post.

TURKS built Warships to fight whole European Powers combined for centuries since the 16th centuy
And the result was Turks losing the majority of battles,even with numerical superiority.
Who proclaimed you the winner?

Whole World

TB-2 is the best Tactical UCAV in the World
AKINCI is the best strategic strike UCAV in the World
KIZILELMA and MQ-28 are only Unmanned stealth Fighter Jets in the World

Iranian UCAVs dont have even AESA Radar

Turkiye sells combat proven UCAVs like hot cake ...
the last one is Romania for TB-2 and S.Arabia for AKINCI ( $3.1 billion )

So funny,you didn't read anything I posted in the previous post.

keep dreaming about 2500 years ago

Greece can not develop/produce even a Corvette now

And the result was Turks losing the majority of battles,even with numerical superiority.


always TURKS vs Europe+Russia with numerical superiority.... cowards

Result : Mediterranean was Turkish lake for centuries
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