Indonesian President inspects JF-17 fighter aircraft

[Hamza913]

Any comparison between F-16 and JF-17?

Similar planes, but the JF-17 is cheaper and has a much longer life ahead of it. Also has less strings attached since America isn't making it.

 

[IceCold]

You have elucidated your view very clearly and logically. A Presidential visit is generally not for requesting sales but a diplomatic one. PAF has a habit of getting any and almost every potential foreign dignitary into the JFT. Arms sales on the other hand are a different kettle of fish. There are pressures of the like which you cannot imagine. There are other factors.
Indonesia is a natjon composed of islands. They will go for twin engined fighters which as you mentioned they have in SU35. If they want a single engined fivhter they will want something with no strings long legs and fully developed. A JFT with 10 HPs AESA and possibly CFTs might be a better bet than block 2. So if at all they will come back when block 3 is there. That said the F16 is a mighty and matured plane. Block 70 with AESA will tick all the boxes and their armaments are top of the class. Price maybe a factor and one has to see where Indonezia sits in long term US plans and vice versa.
Aussies if I have understood correctly are not all that keen to leave their continent but want tp preserve the integrigy of it. So I dont know how much of a threat they might be. Being closer to China the Indonesians might perceive China as a greater threat than the US. Therefore depending on threat perception both F16 and JFT stand a chance.
Cost is another option and whereas the Indonesians may not get anything out of the US they might get local assembly and unhindered supply of arms for JFT. But realistically do you want an assembly plant for 3 squadrons? The last factor is integration of armaments existing in the Indonesian armoury. PAC might not have any objections but US will.
So all in all an interesting option. I think all one can say is that a seed has been planted. Whether 8t matures or not needs to be seen.
A

Well put Araz sb. Always a pleasure reading your reviews sir. I think Pakistan and Indonesia are cooperating a lot less than the potential that exists between our two nations and defense is one such sector where we can extend our cooperation. You have raised some very interesting points like the need for twin engine fighter which will provide with longer legs.
But for the F-16 part i still believe a block 3 JF-17 provides more or less equal capability and range of payload. In fact i doubt if the americans will provide ALCM with F-16 to Indonesia because on the other side its the assusies but Pakistan can very well provide similar option with RA'AD.

 

[araz]

Well put Araz sb. Always a pleasure reading your reviews sir. I think Pakistan and Indonesia are cooperating a lot less than the potential that exists between our two nations and defense is one such sector where we can extend our cooperation. You have raised some very interesting points like the need for twin engine fighter which will provide with longer legs.
But for the F-16 part i still believe a block 3 JF-17 provides more or less equal capability and range of payload. In fact i doubt if the americans will provide ALCM with F-16 to Indonesia because on the other side its the assusies but Pakistan can very well provide similar option with RA'AD.

The range of JFT and the fact that to maintain their nonalligned status they might want to appease the US could be good reasons to buy the F16s.
Remember that Indonesia China relations remain on a Lo so China may have an objection to the sale. Lastly the LACM whoever sells them will be restricted to 350 miles to comply with MTCR so no one including the US will provide them with LACM of a longer range. However some arrangements can be made depending on how developed tbe Indonesian missile industry is.
A

 

[GriffinsRule]

JFT has very little chance of success in Indonesia. For them it does make more sense to buy additional F-16s. However, it is not to say its impossible, especially if we are willing to buy something in return as well. A squadron on strength with lower operating costs vs the heavies might be a good bet from a diversity perspective as well.

 

[shootingstar]

Current airchief of PAF have flown SU30 and he's is not impressed by his experience and he candidly mention about it.
Indian Airchief has already declared SU30 an empty shell.
jF17 and J11 has much more development potential than F16 and SU30.

Its not just the capability of the fighter but the liberty and support during war is equally important.

 

[araz]

Its not just the capability of the fighter but the liberty and support during war is equally important.

By the same token in a confrontation between Australia and Indonesia F16s would be a bad bet to have. JFT might not be right now but block 3 with local production and spare parts might give them more independence in the long run. Having said that the South Korean K50 might also be on the cards.
So it can be argued from both side and is merely a case of sitting back and watching developments. So for instance if there is suddenly a spur of military visits from Indonesia then JFT might be on the cards. The Chinese factor may play a role but PAC will be guarantor and I am sure the Chinese are not going to worry about 2-3 squadrons of JFTs in Indonesian hands.
A

 

[shootingstar]

By the same token in a confrontation between Australia and Indonesia F16s would be a bad bet to have. JFT might not be right now but block 3 with local production and spare parts might give them more independence in the long run. Having said that the South Korean K50 might also be on the cards.
So it can be argued from both side and is merely a case of sitting back and watching developments. So for instance if there is suddenly a spur of military visits from Indonesia then JFT might be on the cards. The Chinese factor may play a role but PAC will be guarantor and I am sure the Chinese are not going to worry about 2-3 squadrons of JFTs in Indonesian hands.
A

Agree that F-16 are not good choice against Australia and JF-17s against China. Hence I suggested Russian SU-35s.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Anyone know when would JFT block 3 be ready for export? What about the unit cost? and how many units would enter service with PAF?

 

[Chak Bamu]

Anyone know when would JFT block 3 be ready for export? What about the unit cost? and how many units would enter service with PAF?

Hard to say at this point. We would not know this until the end or current year, or beginning of the next year. But in any case, PAF would fulfill its own requirements first. Any export of JF-17 Block III would be at least 5 years in future, based on current production capacity.

If JF-17 adds more fuel capacity then it would be a good option for Indonesia. However, I must note that F-5 did not have much range itself. So, the deciding factor would be Indonesia's own strategy.

 

[MiG-35-BD]

Anyone know when would JFT block 3 be ready for export? What about the unit cost? and how many units would enter service with PAF?

Myanmar's JF-17s Block II were produced in record time (2 years from order). Should there be an order, I am sure 2.5-3 years from now it could be managed.

Regarding costs: will depend on what options you go for. Myanmar paid 16 million Usd per plane.

PAF is projected to have 250-300 units, and another 150 at least will be procured by China. Other customers include Nigeria and Myanmar.

Other than sticker price, a quid pro quo could be arranged with Indonesia not having to pay it all in cash but in other products / commodities / equipment.

To see comparison of JF-17 and F-16 type "JF-17 F-16 comparison turn rate" to see a turn rate comparison with the prototype block I. JF-17 should be able to turn inside an F-16 marginally.
Jf-17 is basically somewhere between an F-16 and an F-18. Will have higher ITR than F-16 but lower than F-18. Will have higher STR than F-18 but lower than F-16 at altitude.

 

[Shahzaz ud din]

The primary issue for Indonesia would be that JF-17 would pretty much useless against China in SCS as the fighter is developed by China.

So the best choice for Indonesia would be non other than HAL TEJAS from India

 

[khanasifm]

Myanmar's JF-17s Block II were produced in record time (2 years from order). Should there be an order, I am sure 2.5-3 years from now it could be managed.

Regarding costs: will depend on what options you go for. Myanmar paid 16 million Usd per plane.

PAF is projected to have 250-300 units, and another 150 at least will be procured by China. Other customers include Nigeria and Myanmar.

Other than sticker price, a quid pro quo could be arranged with Indonesia not having to pay it all in cash but in other products / commodities / equipment.

To see comparison of JF-17 and F-16 type "JF-17 F-16 comparison turn rate" to see a turn rate comparison with the prototype block I. JF-17 should be able to turn inside an F-16 marginally.
Jf-17 is basically somewhere between an F-16 and an F-18. Will have higher ITR than F-16 but lower than F-18. Will have higher STR than F-18 but lower than F-16 at altitude.

16 million fly away price with training weapons and support package for x years, 16 Ac for $560 million 0r 35 million a piece

 

[MiG-35-BD]

....

Also note that the JF-17 has a hypersonic anti-ship capability, something that would be a capability Indonesia never had before, and serious threat for Australian misadventure. You would be able to pop out of the water any Australian capital ship, should they get too near. There is virtually no defense against a hypersonic missile.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Pakistan's sale of JF-17 THUNDER (Possible sale not firm order) , has nothing to do with any Hypothetical Australian/Indonesian angle as to my knowledge Australia is quite a peaceful country

But every nation has a minimum deterrence for their Airspace protection which is legal right of Any free country of world

 

[volatile]

Till 9/11 Australians are putting too much emphasis on Aggressive weapon systems

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...s/news-story/b97a41fe8410c86da4b9ff11cf1ec1f4

Pakistan's sale of JF-17 THUNDER (Possible sale not firm order) , has nothing to do with any Hypothetical Australian/Indonesian angle as to my knowledge Australia is quite a peaceful country

But every nation has a minimum deterrence for their Airspace protection which is legal right of Any free country of world