Indian navy captures 61 pirates in Arabian Sea

[StingRoy]

We should not alone carry the burden when the other navies are letting the pirates free once their vessels are secured. I would call this good natured insanity on the part of the Indian Navy.

Yeah I had read your post earlier as well ... Although I agree on the UN mechanism, I still don't agree following the Russian way. Till then I will support the actions of our Navy and I feel they acted more professional than their Russian counterparts.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

You have a point, but see how much drain it is on the state exchequer just for a single man (Kasab). Although I don't see that cost association with these thugs, nevertheless, they will be a drain on the judiciary. It shouldn't be only our responsibility to give the pirates a fair trial, but the responsibility of the whole international community who are operating in the Gulf of Aden.

yes i am aware of the cost factor in kasabs case..but what would have happen if we had just shoot him even when we have a chance to capture him alive? our case against pak would have been very weak, not much information can be obtained about the perpetrators..when we consider all that leverage we got from fair trail the cost is justifiable.i agree that some international setup should be there in this pirates case.

 

[KS]

Yeah I had read your post earlier as well ... Although I agree on the UN mechanism, I still don't agree following the Russian way. Till then I will support the actions of our Navy and I feel they acted more professional than their Russian counterparts.

Lets agree to disagree, because IMHO even if it is more Professional the Russkies were more Practical and I prefer the latter anyday.

 

[StingRoy]

yes i am aware of the cost factor in kasabs case..but what would have happen if we had just shoot him even when we have a chance to capture him alive? our case against pak would have been very weak, not much information can be obtained about the perpetrators..when we consider all that leverage we got from fair trail the cost is justifiable.i agree that some international setup should be there in this pirates case.

Agree on most points of Kasab's case, but it is too late now and each passing day is a burden on us. He deserved a fair trial and he got one, we wanted to make a point to the international community and we did so, now what?... how much longer? There has to be a certain time limit set for each case depending on the crime and a limit to how many times an appeal can be made in higher courts.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Leaving aside the snide remarks and starting with the bolded part I would like to suggest according to the Treaty signed in 1974 between India and SL, the island of Katchatheevu was transferred to Sri Lanka with the clause that Tamil Nadu fishermen will be allowed fishing rights in the waters as it has been their traditional fishing ground for centuries. So I cannot say that the Tamil fisher men (atleast a majority) are at a fault here.

Secondly coming to the issue of the pirates , if Somali fishermen had been caught straying into Indian waters I would suggest re-patriating them back home without even charges being pressed. But these are not exactly fishermen, rather hardened pirates who take killing as a livelihood. So I dont know how your example of fishermen relates to the pirates.

The analogy applies precisely; both are crimes, neither is an act of murder. Please check carefully; deaths occurring during armed robbery, dacoity in Indian parlance, do not amount to murder and are not prosecuted as murder. A flippant attitude towards suggesting the death penalty is uncalled for, and inappropriate, and such an attitude does invite what you have termed 'snide remarks' and what I would term strong criticism.

Thirdly if the Indian Navy is so gung-ho about civil rights (though the pirates IMHO dont deserve one) and dont want to kill them , fine do as the Russkies do/did.

"Disarm them, put them in inflatable boats without any navigation equipment and let them drift away. If their stars are good they will escape or else its their destiny"

Somali ambassador defends Russian treatment of pirates.

This amounts to extra-judicial killing, a passive version of encounter deaths. Let us avoid remarks which might be construed as 'snide' because they are put in mild terms; suggesting encounter deaths, whether actively for Indian criminals, or passively for Somali criminals, is reprehensible!

And still no one has answered what is the proposed solution/SOP under which the imprisoned pirates will be handled in the judicial quagmire India is already in.

This is surprising; Capt.Popeye has attempted a fairly complete answer, indicating the uncertainties clearly. The delays are at our end; India has not determined and worked out the detailed procedures, to match the Criminal Procedure Code, and that is all that is left to be done. A lack of bureaucratic energy cannot be a reason for shooting criminals dead in cold blood.




Link

Some argue that the old British laws on piracy can be used to try them but I dont see it feasible.If someone could prove me otherwise, I would happily withdraw my comments.

Not by me; perhaps you could pin down the culprits in the appropriate context, rather than roping us in 'to make up the number'.

I will address only the underlined part here. India has powers to both apprehend and prosecute the Pirates. This is by virtue of the fact that India is a fully ratified signatory to UNCLOS.
The issues regarding the prosecution are not fully resolved yet. And that is solely to do with the mechanism of the prosecution.
While I have some familiarity with UNCLOS, I am not currently familiar with the Admiralty Laws as incorporated in Indian law as amended.
Having said that, there are many pieces of Judicial legislation in India. Now an Act as passed must have Rules codified subsequently. This is the meat of the matter, the Act becomes quite useless either if the Rules have not been formed, or if the Rules are incomplete or Infirm. That is one probable area of concern in this prosecution, unless that has been anticipated and addressed.
Then there is another matter; in any Prosecution, evidence has to be presented/ led. How the existing Evidence Act will handle that in case of these accused from Somalia is another grey area. I hope the authorities in India have geared up to this.

But on the other hand, meting out summary justice is NOT justifiable. Not in a country that lives by Rule of Law. And in the 21st century.
BTW, was that not part of the issues that Citizens of India fought both courageously and successfully during the days of the infamous Emergency.

That portion in red above is the heart of the matter. The difference between us and dictatorships which abut on us in two directions and perhaps a third direction soon is that we work under the rule of law. It is my contention that there is a political faction within India that is given to seek solutions violative of the law for a variety of situations ranging from social behaviour of a sort that they, as individuals, disapprove, to the punishment to be meted out to suspected criminals not brought to trial nor convicted. This does not of course include the most gruesome acts of violence perpetrated by mobs, which are also sought to be justified on the grounds of the mob being emotionally distraught, or, on the grounds that the perpetrator was seeking to teach the victims a lesson.

Thankfully we were not exposed to that particular reason in this instance, but were merely asked to believe that this call for violence was an attempt at improving financial management by an aggrieved taxpayer.

It is unfortunate that such sentiments are expressed with such glib facility.

We had Indian nationals being held as hostages... hence our naval action.

With so many grey areas and the world famous speed with which we people take up these, we perhaps need to build a chain of jails on the west coast specially for these somali pirates whee they can happily wile away their time feeding themselves and watching Bollywood.

But Popeye ji thanks for the explanation



I am just saying we , India, cannot be burdened with extra pressure on our legal system for the sake of Somali pirates. Either the UN should step in with some sort of trial mechanism or the Indians should be willing to follow the Russian way if allergic to spot punishments.

We need to instill fear in them. Fear is the only way these pirates can be deterred. Atleast make a selective case. Like if any Indian vessel is hijacked and the Navy undetakes an Op kill those so that in the future they think twice before hijacking an Indian flagged vessel.

I am sorry peepz, but kind hearts wont win this war for you nor will clean the Gulf of Aden off this scourge. Feel free to disagree.

Thank you so much for the permission to disagree, but it is curious that every aberration has to be met by fear and brutal punishment, if we are to go by you.

Perhaps if you were to look into the crimes that have been committed by the international community both against the Somali nation in dumping hazardous wastes in their territorial waters and wiping out fishing life, and against the fishing community by over-fishing even the catches that are left using mechanised fish-processing mother ships and small-seine purse nets, you would be less willing to be gulled into believing that Somalis are murderous beings off the Moon, with no human feelings and no human rights, whom it is all right to kill or slaughter like objects in a video game.

Human rights, Oh yes,Human rights. This is the problem. When people resort to such actions as the pirates do they automatically forfeit that right. The Pirates know that. That is why they daringly involve in this.

Neither the pirates nor anyone else, not even a terrorist, forfeits their human rights due to crimes committed. I am sorry but you are totally lacking in any ethical or moral sense. And your sentence above makes no logical sense either; you are saying that it is the pirates' conviction that they have no rights remaining when they commit acts of piracy that makes them commit these acts of piracy. What does that mean? What is the cause, and what is the effect? Were you even thinking when you wrote that?

You can't always do a tit-for-tat can you? I can understand your frustration about the already overloaded judicial system, but unless an accepted international approach is formulated, this will continue.

There is an urgent need to call for an international action on how to deal with these pirates. But till then, we can't just leave them out in the open sea.

It seems that he does indeed think that equal and ferocious responses to criminal acts are justified. It seems that the last two hundred years of reconsideration of the legal system and the imposition of criminal penalties and substitution of a punitive system with a corrective system never took place at all.

 

[@nline]

Why did the pirates brought to Mumbai?

Maybe wants another Mumbai Attack drama against Pakistan?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Maybe wants another Mumbai Attack drama against Pakistan?

Please try not to trivialise a serious matter with this kind of frivolity; you must be among the last remaining people on earth who believes that this is a staged act. Have some residual shame; your own country has suffered enough at the hands of those who committed the Mumbai crimes for you to reconsider the total irresponsibility of your views.

 

[JayAtl]

Stop this insane talk about being judge and jury on the seas and issuing in effect death sentences. You can sugar coat your bloody argument by any creative means, but fact remains that in any civilized society , forget being a democracy- any civilized society, you prosecute or let go. Those are your two choices unless you want to adopt Taliban laws.

Btw many of those pirates are kids forced to join those others.

 

[rcrmj]

Yeah they let them loose again. Are'nt you impressed by that !

not as much as bollywood clowns``

 

[true_indian]

not as much as bollywood clowns``

Oh but I was really impressed with Chinese jumping Chimpanzees..

 

[Frank Martin]

Please try not to trivialise a serious matter with this kind of frivolity; you must be among the last remaining people on earth who believes that this is a staged act. Have some residual shame; your own country has suffered enough at the hands of those who committed the Mumbai crimes for you to reconsider the total irresponsibility of your views.

As per some people 9/11 was an inside job, then why not the 26/11 Mumbai attacks?
Nothing gonna change their blind theories.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Please try not to trivialise a serious matter with this kind of frivolity; you must be among the last remaining people on earth who believes that this is a staged act. Have some residual shame; your own country has suffered enough at the hands of those who committed the Mumbai crimes for you to reconsider the total irresponsibility of your views.

Why that reaction joe ?

Is it the first time you heard a Pakistani referring to the mumbai massacre as a drama ?

almost all Pakistanis atleast in the cyber world barring a few refer refer to it as that and there is no reason for me to believe why Pakistanis off the net would be any different ; and some people talk about friendship with these people .

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

not as much as bollywood clowns``

nice to see that after Pakistanis even our Chinese brothers are getting obsessed with bollywood .

 

[Imran Khan]

a serius qes . which law will apply on these bastards? international or indian?

 

[bhagat]

In this photo released by the Government of India Press Information Bureau, Indian naval officers distribute food to the captured pirates aboard an Indian naval ship in the Arabian Sea, off the coast of Kochi, India, Sunday, March 13, 2011. The navy captured 61 pirates from a hijacked boat after a brief gunfight in the Arabian Sea, the military said Monday, March 14, 2011