Important message

[VCheng]

I think Pakistan should put 'economy' first. Even before Kashmir.

Do not know how many Pakistanis will buy that argument.

Doesn't matter how many buy that.

Either they will realize this, or they will be forced to realize it. Simple.

 

[Baby Leone]

agreed Pak-China Trade must increase like 30 to 50% per year....

 

[OrionHunter]

Exactly what I have been saying all along - geopolitical interests are never static, and Pakistan's blind faith in Chinese "friendship" will be sadly broken should this continue to be ignored.

The crux of the problem lies in the Chinese strategy of containment. The truth is that China has nothing going for it in Pakistan where trade is concerned. Chinese bonhomie with Pakistan is due to its one point agenda of using Pakistan to keep India in check. And thus the strong military ties it has with Pakistan to ensure that its Southern flank is taken care of by Pakistan.

The sooner this is realized, the better it would be. China will not help Pakistan where its economy is concerned. Examples are the snub it got from China for monetary aid and was forced to approach the IMF for a $7 billion loan on some tough conditions. The promised flood relief amounting to $200 million from China has remained largely on paper. Pakistan should now look beyond China and work with neighboring countries like India. Indo-Pak trade could be worth billions of dollars.

But the moot question is, would the PA allow this to happen considering the prevailing animosity for anything 'Indian'? I don't see any detente on the horizon.

 

[Developereo]

Yeah, I remember opening a thread along similar lines a long time back.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...why-china-will-chose-india-over-pakistan.html

It was more about cultural exchange and people-to-people contact, but the economic aspect is a subtext.

 

[VCheng]

Yeah, I remember opening a thread along similar lines a long time back.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...why-china-will-chose-india-over-pakistan.html

It was more about cultural exchange and people-to-people contact, but the economic aspect is a subtext.

Such patterns of relationships are common to junta controlled countries: North Korea, Burma, Pakistan, for example. As long as they have control, keeping their people isolated and backward is helpful.

 

[Splurgenxs]

The crux of the problem lies in the Chinese strategy of containment. The truth is that China has nothing going for it in Pakistan where trade is concerned. Chinese bonhomie with Pakistan is due to its one point agenda of using Pakistan to keep India in check. And thus the strong military ties it has with Pakistan to ensure that its Southern flank is taken care of by Pakistan.

The sooner this is realized, the better it would be. China will not help Pakistan where its economy is concerned. Examples are the snub it got from China for monetary aid and was forced to approach the IMF for a $7 billion loan on some tough conditions. The promised flood relief amounting to $200 million from China has remained largely on paper. Pakistan should now look beyond China and work with neighboring countries like India. Indo-Pak trade could be worth billions of dollars.

But the moot question is, would the PA allow this to happen considering the prevailing animosity for anything 'Indian'? I don't see any detente on the horizon.

well this post of urs compelled me to generate a very interesting perspective..from some fairly recent personal findings.

China wasn't looking to contain India but rather saw an opportunity in Pakistan's friendship.

Half of all strategies are born off opportunity.

China though that Pakistan had the same People as in India, but a different leadership;
As and when the Indian leadership got back stabbed,
China sought a regional ally and as most chinese would perceive with the same but divided race as of India(with which it had older and solid relationships of aid and camaraderie).

Pakistan on the other hand, imo ,sought to contain India via China at that time; building on that very same welfare foundation India had laid much before.

now having said that ...i don't think any side is responsible in this mess of a relation between China and Pakistan but rater they both weren't as close as made out to be .... it is evident in the fact that both countries failed to understand each oter and live ideologically worlds apart.

Two contrasting people where one believes in cold rationale,
the oter dwells in fool hardy matters of the heart ..or may i say emotional interactions.

 

[GOD OF WAR]

What we've managed to do for the umteenth time in this thread is point out very obvious problems plaguing Pakistan. We all know that Pakistan needs:

1. An independent and revised foreign policy.
2. Concentrate on activities to boost Economics and Trade
3. Get rid of corpulent, corrupt and puppet regimes and politicians.
4. Frame a definite Energy Policy.
5. Nuke India

The list is infinite, the million dollar question is CAN WE DISCUSS SOLUTIONS? DO WE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN WHINNIG, GRUMBLING. How are we to take any initiatives and how can they be brought about?

Unless we do that we are no more than a bunch of Noam Chomskys who thrive on outlining the problem, but when it comes to presenting forth SOLUTIONS, pack our bags and leave. Any takers???

And O, btw, number 5 on the list is just a joke, so don't go ballistic on my tail

 

[GOD OF WAR]

The crux of the problem lies in the Chinese strategy of containment. The truth is that China has nothing going for it in Pakistan where trade is concerned. Chinese bonhomie with Pakistan is due to its one point agenda of using Pakistan to keep India in check. And thus the strong military ties it has with Pakistan to ensure that its Southern flank is taken care of by Pakistan.

The sooner this is realized, the better it would be. China will not help Pakistan where its economy is concerned. Examples are the snub it got from China for monetary aid and was forced to approach the IMF for a $7 billion loan on some tough conditions. The promised flood relief amounting to $200 million from China has remained largely on paper. Pakistan should now look beyond China and work with neighboring countries like India. Indo-Pak trade could be worth billions of dollars.

But the moot question is, would the PA allow this to happen considering the prevailing animosity for anything 'Indian'? I don't see any detente on the horizon.

While I do agree need less to say , that Sino_Pak trade must be optimized, what you're saying isnt all that true either. Found else where in the forum for your perusal.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/econom...estment-pakistan-crosses-25-billion-mark.html

 

[VCheng]

While I do agree need less to say , that Sino_Pak trade must be optimized, what you're saying isnt all that true either. Found else where in the forum for your perusal.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/econom...estment-pakistan-crosses-25-billion-mark.html

Please compare that to over $80 billion investment by India in China, and rising.

 

[qasimalinaqvi]

Yes i agree.
We should look in ourselves too. China is our ever lasting friend and he always helped us not nationally but also on international issues.

 

[rai_kamal]

The fundamental problem, is that the current Zardari government (and other politicians) are either afraid or unwilling to carry out vital economic reforms.

Pakistan is the 6th largest country in the world by population, with a highly educated middle class.

Pakistan has enormous economic potential, but the current politicians are unwilling to develop it. Mostly for political reasons, for example on tax reform.

It's the taste of democracy,we have faced the same problem here.
But can't do anything with the system.
But still we love our democratic freedoms..

 

[Alpha Omega]

The fundamental problem, is that the current Zardari government (and other politicians) are either afraid or unwilling to carry out vital economic reforms.

Pakistan is the 6th largest country in the world by population, with a highly educated middle class.

Pakistan has enormous economic potential, but the current politicians are unwilling to develop it. Mostly for political reasons, for example on tax reform.

I concur that. It's not China but Pakistan who has failed to materialize the tremendous potential that exists between the two countries. China's main concern are related to security issues and of course corrupt leadership. Provided the correct environment China has the potential and will to flood Pakistan with direct investments. After all, Chinese are traders and have an eye for lucrative markets.

 

[GOD OF WAR]

Please compare that to over $80 billion investment by India in China, and rising.

There is no comparison between India and Pakistan... in any way. Again, not saying that we shouldn't optimize trade levels. Do you have any solutions sir? realistic ones? no doubt these are turbulent times but there's got to be a 'to do list'. With years of diverse exposure it should'nt be a problem for you. Enumerate action items here.

 

[Trucker]

There is no comparison between India and Pakistan... in any way. Again, not saying that we shouldn't optimize trade levels. Do you have any solutions sir? realistic ones? no doubt these are turbulent times but there's got to be a 'to do list'. With years of diverse exposure it should'nt be a problem for you. Enumerate action items here.

+
after 2020,india may become the china's largest trading partner crossing usa

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

+
after 2020,india may become the china's largest trading partner crossing usa

I don't know about that. The goal set for Sino-Indian trade is $100 billion, currently it is at $60 billion.

Whereas trade between the Chinese mainland and the tiny island of Hong Kong, is today already at around $200 billion per year.

I don't think you will be able to dislodge our three largest trading partners, which are the EU, the USA and Japan. Not in ten years.