Benny....
The Fact is With Russian PAK FA Joining in 2020 and US' Hornets in 2014 ... It will be IAF and IAF all the Way in ASIAN Skies !!!!
When you already knew that, then why opening the thread and doing meaningless discussion.
Strange.

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Benny....
The Fact is With Russian PAK FA Joining in 2020 and US' Hornets in 2014 ... It will be IAF and IAF all the Way in ASIAN Skies !!!!

I guess XiNiX means like this:
#1. The Strength : IAF vs PAF & IAF vs PLAAF
The first won't change much, because any MMRCA would just add to the advantage IAF already has over PAF. Against PAF the F18SH will have an advantage in BVR, but in WVR things will change especially if we keep in mind the numberical superiority of PLAAF.
#2. The Edge : INDIA vs PAKISTAN
An advantage, because it adds strike capabilities to our forces, for SEAD, or preemptive strikes.
#3. The Relations of : Pakistan ( Getting F16s ) & USA ( Supplying F18s to INDIA )
The only point here is, that they might not get F18SH, but turn even more to Chinese fighters, which is not good for India imo. I prefer PAF having 36 x F18SH, than possibly 80, or even 100 x J10Bs.
#4. The Asian Power Projection
Offensive against PLAAF? Difficult and depends on what weapons we could get (long range A2G missiles?).
No doubt about it....However looking at our potential enemies i.e. China or Pak we would be pretty much sanctions free...Having said it we should ensure that we don't compromise on TOT a lot....This deal should be pretty much last deal for 4.5 generation fighter...It is High time we should follow China and start churning out our own fighters....In short whatever we choose it should and should complement our home grown technologies to churn out state of art fighter planes....#5. INDO - US Relations
Boost of course, but by the ammount of restrictions we clearly will be more dependent on a foreign nation than before.
#6. INDIA - Russa, France and EU Relations.
Very difficult! The more influence Russia loses in India, the more interesting will it be to search for other partners, so closer relations to China and even more deals with Pakistan are possible.
Anything the EU can't sale to us, they can offer at least to Pakistan and even the possibility of Rafale techs in PAF will be a big problem for India, let alone if PAF would get 1, or 2 Rafale/EF squads.
Marcos its the Same....
Rafale is My Fav too ... But whats the point to discuss it......
I personally feel... This Defence Deal is Going to be a Real Pain for PAF and PLAAF !!!
More over the Defence Cooperation Between US and Pakistan will be surely Affected.
Its Like Hittng Two Birds with One Stone.

sirjee ye minimum 5years and max 7years ya os se b ziada time layga our os waqat ye engie retire howa hoga aap k saat dhoka howa ha![]()
Benny....
The Fact is With Russian PAK FA Joining in 2020 and US' Hornets in 2014 ... It will be IAF and IAF all the Way in ASIAN Skies !!!!

Mate, beware of our territory or these all IAF Aircrafts willl be on ground![]()

Well i think we need to go a little deeper then that....F-18 will definitely put a seal on more F-16's for Pak, no??? I am expecting atleast this much from Babus to put up...
...My perception is different on this issue....The way i am looking at it, if this deal go through it will put a lid on any more F-16's or F-18's to Pak...
We must keep in mind that even if you are in defensive mode you need to carry out missions inside Enemy Territory....With such a huge numerical difference you need a healthy number of state of art planes. 100 odd MKI's will not do the trick however 150-200 MKI's complemented with 126-200 F-18SH will surely do, no???
No doubt about it....However looking at our potential enemies i.e. China or Pak we would be pretty much sanctions free...Having said it we should ensure that we don't compromise on TOT a lot....This deal should be pretty much last deal for 4.5 generation fighter...It is High time we should follow China and start churning out our own fighters....In short whatever we choose it should and should complement our home grown technologies to churn out state of art fighter planes....
Don't agree here....In other words all these problems have no relation with F-18 as MRCA choice....Mig-35 have very little chance in MRCA and we all know about it....India is a big market for defence equipments and we have a long list to keep all parties interested. Moreover we have time-tested relations with Russia which cannot alter by one deal....As far as rafael tech goes in Pak hands, then rest assured that will not happen unless and until you see a order of similar magnitude which in current economic woes is highly unlikely for PAF.....Moreover there is always a danger of tech getting leaked to China.....Regarding PAF going after Rafael of Typhoon or similar birds then they always had the choice, its the money which is a problem for them....In short if we go for Rafael then they can go for Typhoon and vice-versa...You cannot do much about it...IAF should just look at what is best for them...
im confused..which territory are u talking..?Kuwait..Mate, beware of our territory or these all IAF Aircrafts willl be on ground![]()
But 150 - 200 MKI complemented with any MMRCA will be a boost right? It is not special for the F18SH and imo, with the Eurocanards we would have a bigger advantage over PLAAF than with the US fighters. The combination of the lowst RCS and METEOR missiles in BVR, as well as the supermanouverability of them in WVR gives us an edge in any situation right?
Why is UAE a faithful French customer suddenly disinterested in the Ra-fail? Why have they turned their noses at the Ra-fail as if its made from smelly camembert?
No radar source codes means, we must inform the US first if we plan a strike in Pakistan (like it was planed after the mumbai attacks).
..like what? Still peddling the Ra-fail?Why is UAE a faithful French customer suddenly disinterested in the Ra-fail? Why have they turned their noses at the Ra-fail as if its made from smelly camembert?
Especially when the French were so generous, offering to buy UAE Mirages and investing millions in Al Dhafra? Politics? perhaps, but the UAE Ra-fail deal was a one horse race a sure win for the Ra-fail and a deliberate step by the Emirati's to mitigate the risk of US arms sanctions by diversifying arms suppliers. Sure the AESA radar wasn't able to track moving ground targets and didn't have the range or resolution of the Desert Falcon- big deal!! They can use the OSF to watch the target and wait for the target to stop! They will run out of fuel or someone will have to pee eventually!![]()
It makes me so mad to think they don't understand how to use hi tech weapons.And why do they need more thrust? The French are happy with the M/88 - what is the UAE AF going to do with more thrust? Make their camels deaf by breaking the sound barrier at low altitude - they can use their damned desert falcons for such trivialities.![]()
And so what if the man machine interface requires more than 100 hours for their pilots to figure out how to navigate between gauges and flight instruments - its easy, one middle finger click, two index finger click three thumb flicks and viola the fuel gauge - it isn't rocket science - is it?!!
Sure you can be old fashioned and insist on dedicated gauges but thats so..so.. yesterday.. its more interesting to bury important gauges deep inside menus and sub menus. So much more fun for the pilot ..to search for these menu options while pulling 9G's in combat....right? But if its such a big deal they should pay to fast track D V I - Direct Voice Input development and then pay a little extra to recognize some quirks of Arab English speakers.
An Arab client once took me to lunch in his new luxury car and on our way to the restaurant he tried to impress me by issuing voice instruction to his car to self park. He pressed a button and said "bark" - the car apologized and asked him to repeat the voice command. Embarrassed he explained there was a technical problem and he'd take the car back to the dealer. Fine, I'm sure clever French engineers can figure out a smart way to substitute "B" with "P" and arabize the D V I. Or, if that is too 'expensive' they can easily hire some more Pakistani pilots and teach them French.
This is so true, our pilots are excellent ADA programmers. How else are the able to provide close air support for our ground troops? Targets of opportunity no problem, our pilots can reprogram our radars in a jiffy! Check in and check out of the source code from the secure source code repository control takes a few seconds - but we're working on improving it.
why are u calling it ra-fail
..like what? Still peddling the Ra-fail?Why is UAE a faithful French customer suddenly disinterested in the Ra-fail? Why have they turned their noses at the Ra-fail as if its made from smelly camembert?
Especially when the French were so generous, offering to buy UAE Mirages and investing millions in Al Dhafra? Politics? perhaps, but the UAE Ra-fail deal was a one horse race a sure win for the Ra-fail and a deliberate step by the Emirati's to mitigate the risk of US arms sanctions by diversifying arms suppliers. Sure the AESA radar wasn't able to track moving ground targets and didn't have the range or resolution of the Desert Falcon- big deal!! They can use the OSF to watch the target and wait for the target to stop! They will run out of fuel or someone will have to pee eventually!![]()
It makes me so mad to think they don't understand how to use hi tech weapons.And why do they need more thrust? The French are happy with the M/88 - what is the UAE AF going to do with more thrust? Make their camels deaf by breaking the sound barrier at low altitude - they can use their damned desert falcons for such trivialities.![]()
And so what if the man machine interface requires more than 100 hours for their pilots to figure out how to navigate between gauges and flight instruments - its easy, one middle finger click, two index finger click three thumb flicks and viola the fuel gauge - it isn't rocket science - is it?!!
Sure you can be old fashioned and insist on dedicated gauges but thats so..so.. yesterday.. its more interesting to bury important gauges deep inside menus and sub menus. So much more fun for the pilot ..to search for these menu options while pulling 9G's in combat....right? But if its such a big deal they should pay to fast track D V I - Direct Voice Input development and then pay a little extra to recognize some quirks of Arab English speakers.
An Arab client once took me to lunch in his new luxury car and on our way to the restaurant he tried to impress me by issuing voice instruction to his car to self park. He pressed a button and said "bark" - the car apologized and asked him to repeat the voice command. Embarrassed he explained there was a technical problem and he'd take the car back to the dealer. Fine, I'm sure clever French engineers can figure out a smart way to substitute "B" with "P" and arabize the D V I. Or, if that is too 'expensive' they can easily hire some more Pakistani pilots and teach them French.
This is so true, our pilots are excellent ADA programmers. How else are the able to provide close air support for our ground troops? Targets of opportunity no problem, our pilots can reprogram our radars in a jiffy! Check in and check out of the source code from the secure source code repository control takes a few seconds - but we're working on improving it.