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IAF-Army Spat Festers On Over Attack Copter Use

angeldemon_007

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The chronic inter-services war between the Indian Air Force and Indian Army over the use of attack helicopters continues to fester. After the Indian Army made an official request to the government late last year to give it full control over all tactical air assets in the battlefield, including attack helicopter flights, the IAF today had its say again. The IAF, remember, is on the threshold of contracting for 22 new attack helicopters to augment its two Mi attack squadrons.

IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Norman Browne was firm today. He said, "The attack helicopter issue is an old issue. There is a document called the Joint Army Air Instruction (JAAI) of 1986 which authorises roles and responsibilities of who does what. The IAF has always operated helicopters of all kinds. The Army's charter is confined to light utility helicopters. The two squadrons of attack helicopters we currently operate are manned and maintained by the IAF, but under command and control of the Army. That is the rule position."

Livefist: IAF-Army Spat Festers On Over Attack Copter Use
 
I hope this time IA sticks to its claim until MOD interferes and give the choppers to IA. The level of coordination which is needed can never be achieved between 2 services who work differently and when both of them thinks they are better than other. Some agreement between the two services is important because without the control of helicopters IA's operational capabilities is hugely effected.
 
Agree with you totally. Attack helicopters are simply the aerial arm of an advancing armoured/mechanised column rendering it close support against enemy armour/infantry. It operates in close coordination with armour whether in attack or counter attack. They are a very potent option available to the local commanders during the periods in battle when air assets are not available for close air support for the Army. Traditionally Attack helicopters have very limited A2A capabilities which are designed only for self protection against enemy fighters. They have zero capability for airspace control, anti air operations or interdiction which are the principle roles of any air force. There is therefore, simply no logic in the Air Force trying to retain control of these assets. Attack helicopters manned by pilots of the Army's Aviation Corps will ensure greater synergy and coordination in the land battle.
 
These Airforce people are really annoying...They believe anything that flies must be under their control...
IA should stick to its demand and get what is rightfully theirs..
 
These Airforce people are really annoying...They believe anything that flies must be under their control...
IA should stick to its demand and get what is rightfully theirs..

And why not may I enquire? They are stuck with the pilot programs,maintatinence and upgradation modules for the Naval and Army aviation wings as well.The need of the hour is to build upon interoperability and treatment of specialist assets like attack and recon choppers as joint assets.
 
By that logic Garuds should be under the Army.

The Air Force should only concentrate on maintaining air superiority and not worry about CAS operations.
 
Interesting there is/was a very similar issue in UK regarding RAF who operates Chinooks and Apaches. It was found lack of operability between army and AF in Afghanistan had lead to very serious consequences including deaths. Similar spat led to the UK not buying the much needed Blackawk because it was to large for the small British army AAC but not as big as traditional large helos the RAF operated so it fell right in the middle of the two and the ensuing service scrap meant plans remained just that.


Tbh I have never understood this mentality as I would've thought these guys would understand they're on the same side and fighting for the same nation. The straightening of any service could only be a good thing for them as citizens and make their job a bit easier in war.
 
Traditionally Attack helicopters have very limited A2A capabilities which are designed only for self protection against enemy fighters. They have zero capability for airspace control, anti air operations or interdiction which are the principle roles of any air force. There is therefore, simply no logic in the Air Force trying to retain control of these assets. Attack helicopters manned by pilots of the Army's Aviation Corps will ensure greater synergy and coordination in the land battle.

Traditionally in Indian forces maybe, but in all western forces, combat helicopters perform way more roles than "just" fire support to ground forces! In Iraq war Apache helicopters were one of the first aircrafts send in low behind enemy borders to take out important radar stations, which paved the way for deep penetration fighters. Also with the latest avionics and radars, the Apache Block 3 would be a great choice for hunting enemy UAVs, or helicopters of course.
One also should not forget that IAF needs these Mi 35s to provide cover to their Mi 17s, or Mi 26 as escorts and giving these aircrafts way before the Apaches/Mi 28, or LCH will be available, leaves them unprotected.
Imo IAF should remain with them for now, since IA will get Rudra soon anyway, but a reform of the roles of the air wings of each forces is important and IAF must give away some of the traditional roles!
 
And why not may I enquire? They are stuck with the pilot programs,maintatinence and upgradation modules for the Naval and Army aviation wings as well.The need of the hour is to build upon interoperability and treatment of specialist assets like attack and recon choppers as joint assets.

Because Army is just not satisfied with the commitment shown from AF Pilots in the time of need..In the last CLAWS seminar (when all hell broke out ), IA openly termed the Heli Pilots as "cowards - who did not want to go on tough missions" and wanted the tactical rotor wing under their control..

Re interoperability: This is the major hindrance in real time scenario..Army plans the operation and it takes a lot of time to convey the same and IAF ready to ferry the soldiers with equipment ..We all saw what this "interoperability" did in Kargil..
 
By that logic Garuds should be under the Army.

The Air Force should only concentrate on maintaining air superiority and not worry about CAS operations.

That is exactly what is happening. The IAF does not subscribe to the CAS role any longer. They feel that it is a wastage of air assets which could be better used for anti air operations to gain air superiority and for interdiction. The theory being that enemy ground operations will be so severely hampered in an environment where we have the control of the local airspace that a focused effort to achieve that control is better than 'frittering away' valuable resources for CAS. Exactly how do attack helicopters contribute to airspace control? They are essentially for CAS. That is exactly why the IAF should let them go.
 
Traditionally in Indian forces maybe, but in all western forces, combat helicopters perform way more roles than "just" fire support to ground forces! In Iraq war Apache helicopters were one of the first aircrafts send in low behind enemy borders to take out important radar stations, which paved the way for deep penetration fighters. Also with the latest avionics and radars, the Apache Block 3 would be a great choice for hunting enemy UAVs, or helicopters of course.
One also should not forget that IAF needs these Mi 35s to provide cover to their Mi 17s, or Mi 26 as escorts and giving these aircrafts way before the Apaches/Mi 28, or LCH will be available, leaves them unprotected.
Imo IAF should remain with them for now, since IA will get Rudra soon anyway, but a reform of the roles of the air wings of each forces is important and IAF must give away some of the traditional roles!

Thats what Army is demanding..They do not want whole rotor wing under them...
 
Traditionally in Indian forces maybe, but in all western forces, combat helicopters perform way more roles than "just" fire support to ground forces! In Iraq war Apache helicopters were one of the first aircrafts send in low behind enemy borders to take out important radar stations, which paved the way for deep penetration fighters. Also with the latest avionics and radars, the Apache Block 3 would be a great choice for hunting enemy UAVs, or helicopters of course.
One also should not forget that IAF needs these Mi 35s to provide cover to their Mi 17s, or Mi 26 as escorts and giving these aircrafts way before the Apaches/Mi 28, or LCH will be available, leaves them unprotected.
Imo IAF should remain with them for now, since IA will get Rudra soon anyway, but a reform of the roles of the air wings of each forces is important and IAF must give away some of the traditional roles!

We do not use attack helicopters any differently than the west does. The situations differ. Neutralising radar stations behind enemy lines using attack helicopters? Well the NATO can have that luxury as those helicopters will operate in an environment completely bereft of enemy air power or air defence except for the odd shoulder fired stuff. The total air dominance enjoyed by the US/NATO in Iraq or Afghanistan permits such use. In our context such attack helicopters would have such a short life without air support giving SEAD cover that use of attack helicopters in isolation for an interdiction task would be simply foolish. A commando team carrying out such tasks would have greater survivability. But the depth of the interdiction matters. Any target beyond 20 KMs is simply an air force interdiction task.
 
Thats what Army is demanding..They do not want whole rotor wing under them...

There r people who not sleeping at 2:30 considers miletery actions. perhaps we r unique as even leaders of miletery might not think at2:45....???
jst jocking
 
Thats what Army is demanding..They do not want whole rotor wing under them...

But a big part of course and that's what troubles IAF so much.

MoD already made a mistake by delinking the IN air wing from the LUH competition / HAL LOH development, because all 3 forces needs these helicopters as a base for their uttility transports, just like the Dhruv. The advantages that they used the same helicopters in the past made training, maintenance and logistics easier than they would be if IN goes for other helicopters. That's why I still hope that if IAF/IA selects the EC Fennec, MoD forces IN to take the naval version for IN without a new competition as well.
The next step should be adding helicopters to the 3 forces according to the prime roles:

- IA airwing as the prime user of helicopters to transport troops, provide fire support and offensive attacks, then should get at least a part (if not all) of the Mi 17s, just like all combat helicopters (LCH and Apache/Mi 28).

- IAF, as the prime force in the cargo transport role, then should focus on heavier helicopters like the Mi 26-T2, with Rudra as the only armed helicopter for escort, or base defense roles since it can do them next to normal transport, unlike a dedicated combat helicopter like LCH.
Another important role of the them is the nuclear strike role, which is why they should remain with these fighters, instead of providing SFC with dedicated fighters.

- IN and ICG air wings then should mainly focus on naval helicopters for the Frigats and patrol boats to fight pirats, transport and uttility roles. If the naval Dhruv does not fit to their requirements, they should focus on a joint order of foreign helicopters, instead of different competitions.
Since IN air wing has also a prime anti ship and anti submarine warfare as a prime role as well, they should get the martime attack combat fighter squadron as well (Jaguar IM, although I would love to see Su 34s with Brahmos, or even torpedos). That eases training of the pilots and use of the same weapons.


All this would make IAF way smaller, since they give up much, but might make all forces more effective in their prime roles!
 

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