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I suppose this makes it definitive....

I suppose you are restricting the definition of Caliphate to the Rashidun. If so, I see your point, but I was using the looser, historical mainstream definition, according to which the Caliphate, having been obliterated by the Mongols, was revived by the Ottomans, and lasted till 1918.

Fair enough, the efflorescence we are talking about was largely during the rule of the Abbasids.



Again, you have made a subtle point. It is interesting to see the indirect dialogue between you and @padamchen, where you are each correcting little details, not each other's, and transforming the picture as a whole.

We've been doing that to each other for some time now.

Unlike earlier, we both allow each other to keep their respective heads where they belong .... on their shoulders, and not rolling at the others feet.

Cheers, Doc
 
Sure, they do. So what? There are dogged Hindus telling us that everything started in India and spread to the rest of the world. So what? Should we even pretend to enhance their stature by acknowledging their presence?

excuse me ... every culture is ethno-centric. have they stopped changes in Hindu society ?
 
excuse me ... every culture is ethno-centric. have they stopped changes in Hindu society ?

There is a difference between being ethno-centric, and concentrating on aspects of one's culture and traditions, and taking a stand that everything worthwhile originated here. What has that stick-in-the-mud bigotry got to do with the power of Hindu society to achieve changes? Those changes never came about due to the efforts of the lunatic fringe.
 
There is a difference between being ethno-centric, and concentrating on aspects of one's culture and traditions, and taking a stand that everything worthwhile originated here. What has that stick-in-the-mud bigotry got to do with the power of Hindu society to achieve changes? Those changes never came about due to the efforts of the lunatic fringe.

for starters the lunatic fringe has never threatened me
i never feel threatened by them
 
It wasn't ever about feeling threatened.

replace hinduism with your language name or caste name or family name or village name. you will have a lot of people blowing their own horns. It is about the willingness and ability of people to propose and to try out new things in life
 
There is a difference between being ethno-centric, and concentrating on aspects of one's culture and traditions, and taking a stand that everything worthwhile originated here. What has that stick-in-the-mud bigotry got to do with the power of Hindu society to achieve changes? Those changes never came about due to the efforts of the lunatic fringe.

Fringe ...

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Mainstream front and center ...

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Disclaimer: Any resemblance to a real person or groups of persons, and political or ideological persuasion, past or present, is purely coincidental.

Cheers, Doc
 
replace hinduism with your language name or caste name or family name or village name. you will have a lot of people blowing their own horns. It is about the willingness and ability of people to propose and to try out new things in life

There is a qualitative difference between honest pride in one's own, and the kind of painfully forced jingoism that one sees being perpetrated at the political level. If you are unable to perceive or to acknowledge it, obviously you believe that it is normal and there is nothing much left to discuss.
 

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