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Hyderabad: Jawan who set ablaze boy kills self

That's a reasonable thing so say. If time permits one may submit this suggestion to would be suicidees (not sure if such a term exists). Who knows - it might just prevent them from happening. :P


I think you are talking about Jauhar. That was NOT because of accusations. Women killed themselves to avoid getting captured by Muslim invaders and taken as war booty. That is a different issue.

No you missed the conversation that happened just a few posts ago:

But i also quoted you examples of women from central India who were only accused of adultery (not even considered a crime) and resorted to suicide..

This confuses me, how can an innocent person "lose honor" even if they did nothing wrong?

You see, honor is a good and noble thing. An innocent person who has done nothing wrong, has not lost their honor. It doesn't matter who accuses them of what, or even if they are wrongly punished/imprisoned for it.

People lose their honor by doing bad things. Good, innocent people who have done nothing wrong, cannot lose their honor.

But the way you are describing the word "honor" is a very nasty idea, which helped me understand how such a weird phrase "honor killing" could exist. Honor is a good thing, you don't kill your own children because of honor, that makes zero sense.

I don't think the word honor should be used in such a situation, since it is the exact opposite.

noun
noun: honor
  1. 1.
    high respect; great esteem.
  2. 2.
    the quality of knowing and doing what is morally right.
 
No you missed the conversation that happened just a few posts ago:





You see, honor is a good and noble thing. An innocent person who has done nothing wrong, has not lost their honor. It doesn't matter who accuses them of what, or even if they are wrongly punished/imprisoned for it.

People lose their honor by doing bad things. Good, innocent people who have done nothing wrong, cannot lose their honor.

But the way you are describing the word "honor" is a very nasty idea, which helped me understand how such a weird phrase "honor killing" could exist. Honor is a good thing, you don't kill your own children because of honor, that makes zero sense.

I don't think the word honor should be used in such a situation, since it is the exact opposite.

noun
noun: honor
  1. 1.
    high respect; great esteem.
  2. 2.
    the quality of knowing and doing what is morally right.
Yes, I missed that, my bad.

Honor works differently in the subcontinent. Which is a bad thing - I agree.
Shame can sully honor, even when there is no reason to feel the same. It's wrong, but it's there. And it is nasty at times.
 
No you missed the conversation that happened just a few posts ago:





You see, honor is a good and noble thing. An innocent person who has done nothing wrong, has not lost their honor. It doesn't matter who accuses them of what, or even if they are wrongly punished/imprisoned for it.

People lose their honor by doing bad things. Good, innocent people who have done nothing wrong, cannot lose their honor.

But the way you are describing the word "honor" is a very nasty idea, which helped me understand how such a weird phrase "honor killing" could exist. Honor is a good thing, you don't kill your own children because of honor, that makes zero sense.

I don't think the word honor should be used in such a situation, since it is the exact opposite.

noun
noun: honor
  1. 1.
    high respect; great esteem.
  2. 2.
    the quality of knowing and doing what is morally right.
it's subjective and based on the society. Honor in social perspective means how he or she is in the eyes of other people. He was questioned for his role in this heinous act. May be he is involved or may be he is not but he would have known what kind of question people will ask him back home.
 
Suddenly I have a greater understand of the term "honor killing".

But that is a sick and twisted perversion of the word honor.

Like I said, an innocent person who has done nothing wrong, has not lost their honor.

The fact that you are arguing the opposite, and the fact that according to @Peshwa many Indian women commit suicide due to false accusations (even if they are really innocent), points to the kind of problem that suddenly makes the oxymoronic phrase "honor killing" make sense.

Honor is a good thing, not a bad thing. The way you are describing it makes it sound like a bad thing.

You don't kill innocent people and even your own children because of "honor", they need a new dictionary for that kind of crap. Maybe instead of "honor killing" they should call it dishonorable killing, that makes more sense.

See here's the thing that bothers me about Indian society many a times...
We Indians live to look good in the eyes of society...how respectfully our neighbors/peers view us plays a HUGE role in our own perception of ourselves many a times..
The west lays importance to individualism...the east on collectivism..and this is true for even countries like China..
This could also explain why the Caste system has played such a pivotal role in the history of Indian society...since being a Brahmin or a Shudra is basically a societal perception...

Now try to keep the above in mind and think about the example of women in Central India that I gave you...
This is how it works..
A woman in India is being pursued by her neighbor...she is innocent...but people see this man approaching her and without understanding the situation falsely think something is going on between them (Central India is a closed and conservative society where women arent allowed to talk to men outside of their immediate family)..when people gossip (not uncommon in most cultures) it gets to the husbands and in laws...they accuse this woman of adultery..so she has just lost the love and respect of her in laws...on the other hand, even the neighbors who have zilch to do with the situation start to talk behind her back calling her a whore/slut etc (now again, this happens in other societies too)...shady men start thinking this woman is game and try to take advantage...the woman at this point sees no choice but to end her life with no friends/family left and her reputation becoming nothing more than a common whore.

Basically this woman has done nothing and lost "honor" in society...
See you are seeing honor from an internal point of view (read how one perceives themselves)....the situation means honor within the society and its a huge thing!

Hope this clarifies my reference to the women committing suicides

it's subjective and based on the society. Honor in social perspective means how he or she is in the eyes of other people. He was questioned for his role in this heinous act. May be he is involved or may be he is not but he would have known what kind of question people will ask him back home.

That's bang on the Indian view of honor...

@Chinesedragon

And mind you this phenomenon of "Honor" exists in most of south asia...

Please read the famous Mukhtaar Mai case in Pakistan to understand how honor plays a huge role from a society perspective

Mukhtār Mā'ī - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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ok i know you may not be familiar with this fact… but did you know your prime minister is a criminal?? who had a hand in the deaths of 100s of innocent civilians??? is there a justice system in a country where the prime minister himself is the criminal?

you should read the SC verdict. That is our justice system
 

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