How Do the F22P frigates compare to the Type 022 Fast Attack boats ?

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well I was thinking that these ships could be deadly in night time raids , becasue they are so fast they can come in in total darkness of the night and do the damage and run , since the radars on enemy ships can't detect them they can get the job done and they will leave before the enemy has chance to retaliate

I think if these ships are used in bunch of 8 units , grouped together these can be devastating , these can't be hit by Submarine torpedoes

And the Frigate radars would not be able to lock on to them

If we get TOT and 20-30 ships in our navy it would be a great addition

 

[Penguin]

Well I was thinking that these ships could be deadly in night time raids , becasue they are so fast they can come in in total darkness of the night and do the damage and run , since the radars on enemy ships can't detect them they can get the job done and they will leave before the enemy has chance to retaliate

I think if these ships are used in bunch of 8 units , grouped together these can be devastating , these can't be hit by Submarine torpedoes

And the Frigate radars would not be able to lock on to them

If we get TOT and 20-30 ships in our navy it would be a great addition

Stealth does not equate to undetectable. Just more hard to detect. Even if they are shaped to deteflect or coated to absorb radar emissions, they may still be detected by radar (just much closer in), and their departure from port may still be noted via satellite. Then there is thermal signature (for the speed they achieve, the must have from powerfull engines and therefor generate heat) and noise signature (a sub listening passively with a towed array may still detect them at signifiant distance by their prop or waterjet noise).

 

[Penguin]

Because I couldn't find a Frigate in indian navy to compare it too

The comparison here is 022 versus F22P. I.e. something the size of the Trinkat class versus the P28

 

[Penguin]

Even though the kamorta is meant to be an ASW corvette does not imply that it can't carry SSMs. On account of the versatility of the klub platform. the launcher can be fitted with anti sub or anti ship klubs.
I had brought this point up earlier too. Their 'frigate' the F22 was at most comparable to out kamorta class corvettes. Any of our newer frigates carry much more armament.

In case you missed this, P28 doesn't/won't carry a VLU for Klub family missiles. So the fact the Klub family of missiles included an ASROC-like as well as an antiship variant is irrelevant.
Weapons : 1 X 76.2mm Oto SRGM; 2 x AK-630M CIWS; Barak; 2 X RBU 6000 (IRL); torpedo tubes.
Bharat-Rakshak.com :: NAVY - Project 28 Class

The armament of F22P is entirely comparable to that of e.g. P16/A Gadavari/Brahmaputra classes and even to that of Talwar and P17 Shivalik classes (though these obviously have some advantage in the SAM area due to having 2 different SAM systems). But of course these are significantly larger ships (P16/A dsiplaces 3800 tons and Talwar displaces 4000 tons, compared to 2500 tons). Your P17 is much like Euro 'frigates', which are in fact small (compared to US and Russian ships) destroyers: P17 displaces 6200 tons, which is very close to the displacement of 6900 tons of the P15 Delhi destroyers.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

In case you missed this, P28 doesn't/won't carry a VLU for Klub family missiles. So the fact the Klub family of missiles included an ASROC-like as well as an antiship variant is irrelevant.
Weapons : 1 X 76.2mm Oto SRGM; 2 x AK-630M CIWS; Barak; 2 X RBU 6000 (IRL); torpedo tubes.
Bharat-Rakshak.com :: NAVY - Project 28 Class

The armament of F22P is entirely comparable to that of e.g. P16/A Gadavari/Brahmaputra classes and even to that of Talwar and P17 Shivalik classes (though these obviously have some advantage in the SAM area due to having 2 different SAM systems). But of course these are significantly larger ships (P16/A dsiplaces 3800 tons and Talwar displaces 4000 tons, compared to 2500 tons). Your P17 is much like Euro 'frigates', which are in fact small (compared to US and Russian ships) destroyers: P17 displaces 6200 tons, which is very close to the displacement of 6900 tons of the P15 Delhi destroyers.

@ Penguin,
The information in the underlined part of your post contradicts the information available on the source quoted by you. Refer below:
From the source quoted above;
Armament is to include a license-built Oto Melara 76mm Super Rapid gun in a stealth mount and the usual assortment of weapons similar to what is found on the Talwar Class and Project 17 frigates including a Klub-N missile system, two Larsen & Toubro built derivatives of the RBU-6000 anti-submarine rocket launcher and Larsen & Tubro built torpedo launchers. Revati, the naval variant of the DRDO-made Central Acquisition Radar (CAR), which is capable of tracking 150 targets at ranges of 200 km, is a confirmed sensor aboard the vessel. Hangar and aviation facilities will also be standard features.

 

[Penguin]

@ Penguin,
The information in the underlined part of your post contradicts the information available on the source quoted by you. Refer below:
From the source quoted above;
Armament is to include a license-built Oto Melara 76mm Super Rapid gun in a stealth mount and the usual assortment of weapons similar to what is found on the Talwar Class and Project 17 frigates including a Klub-N missile system, two Larsen & Toubro built derivatives of the RBU-6000 anti-submarine rocket launcher and Larsen & Tubro built torpedo launchers. Revati, the naval variant of the DRDO-made Central Acquisition Radar (CAR), which is capable of tracking 150 targets at ranges of 200 km, is a confirmed sensor aboard the vessel. Hangar and aviation facilities will also be standard features.

And where in the official model of the ship do you see the VLU?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

And where in the official model of the ship do you see the VLU?

Should I go by a model (made by some model-maker) or the printed information?

 

[Jango]

Stealth does not equate to undetectable. Just more hard to detect. Even if they are shaped to deteflect or coated to absorb radar emissions, they may still be detected by radar (just much closer in), and their departure from port may still be noted via satellite. Then there is thermal signature (for the speed they achieve, the must have from powerfull engines and therefor generate heat) and noise signature (a sub listening passively with a towed array may still detect them at signifiant distance by their prop or waterjet noise).

Stealth sure does not mean undetectable but for heat signature these stealth boats have nozles that spray seawater onto the exhaust area and hence the exhaust is minimized and another technique is to place the exhaust in the water.

 

[cross1993]

F22P certainly better than type 022. The price of making a F22P, it can make four type 022. Expensive one are always better.

 

[Jigs]

F22P certainly better than type 022. The price of making a F22P, it can make four type 022. Expensive one are always better.

From a multrole standpoint F22P is better as it (as a light frigate) has multirole capabilities. However for the specific role of fast attack Type 022 is far more capable then the F22P is.

It is really apples and oranges though. They are different classed ships and fill different roles. Both types are necessary in navies.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

F22P certainly better than type 022. The price of making a F22P, it can make four type 022. Expensive one are always better.

185 million for F22P export. 15 million for type 022 and probably 20 million for export. so you could probably make 9.

 

[Penguin]

Should I go by a model (made by some model-maker) or the printed information?

Some model maker? From that pic's caption: "Image © Indian Navy via Indian Defence Review"

The printed material (at the top) contains the short list of armaments I posted earlier. It corresponds with both the pic of the model on that page as well as with the line drawing on that page.

That drawing's caption: Image © Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers

IN has 8 SSM armed corvettes (Kora, Khukri), which lack SAM's and ASW gear: ASW corvettes with SAM but no SSM make perfect sense in that context.

At the launch of the Kamorta, a naval official was quoted about the armement as follows:

The official said the 3,100-tonnage ship would be fitted with the latest indigenously developed sonars to detect submarines.

"The torpedo tubes, and scutter (torpedo decoys) launchers contribute to its anti-submarine punch. In addition, the ship will also be equipped with vertically launched point defence missile system (PDMS) and close in weapon systems (CIWS) such as AK 30's and super rapid gun mount (SRGM)," the official added.

"The ship is also equipped with decoy system Kavach, which is designed to counter the threat of various anti-ship missiles," he said.

India launches its first anti-submarine corvette [newkerala.com, , 92358]
Note the absense of a reference to Klub.

Also note the difference in wording in reference to different armaments here:

The Project 28 corvettes, when they join the navy’s fleet, will be silent and heavily armed. An Otomelara Super Rapid Gun Mount (SRGM) on the bow can pour 76 millimetre shells onto aerial and surface targets. Flanking it will be two Indigenous Rocket Launchers (IRLs) that can fire at both submarines and ships. Submarines can also be engaged through six torpedo tubes. Two AK 630 Gatling guns, one on either side, can shoot down attacking aircraft. Finally, vertically launched missiles are likely to be mounted for engaging surface targets.

Warship project delayed to build up private sector
Affirmative formulation for everything but Klub, which is tentatively formulated


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Where would that 9.5m long (4 decks deep !) 8-round VLU for Klub go exactly, on this ship?

 

[Penguin]

Stealth sure does not mean undetectable but for heat signature these stealth boats have nozles that spray seawater onto the exhaust area and hence the exhaust is minimized and another technique is to place the exhaust in the water.

Thermal signature of naval ship includes hull temp (i.e. around engine room) as well as wake temp, in addition to exhaust emission.
Naval Thermal Modeling Services

 

[cross1993]

185 million for F22P export. 15 million for type 022 and probably 20 million for export. so you could probably make 9.

F22P price is 185 million? It is a bit expensive.
I think PN should buy type 056 to replace F22P.

 

[SAUD-404]

I wonder wich one would win a F22P or a nimitz clas suppercarrier

just to make you feel happy Nimitz in a one-on-one fight with F-22p frigate