How China's J-20 Stealth Fighter Would Shoot Down an F-22 or F-35

[Philip the Arab]

TBH F-22 and F-35 will detect and engage J-20 way faster. F-22 has the most advanced avionics in the world right now which outclass the J-20s by a whole lot.

 

[LeGenD]

Completely immature piece of writing.

F-22A and F-35 variants are VLO to a degree that an opposing jet is left with no choice but to get really close to obtain weapons-grade lock on either, but the former two will finish it off much earlier instead. This is the ultimate advantage of going VLO.

If the J-20 is able to obtain weapons-grade lock on an F-22A or an F-35 variant at like 20 KM distance, then PL-15's 300 KM range is utterly useless in this scenario.

S-400 system which have a massive radar system can notice F-35 Block-3f (0.00038 m^2 uniform rcs) at 21 miles mark, for reference.

 

[Mithridates]

well f-22 can detect j-20 around 105 km and probably lock on it in 85 km away (if we consider j-20's RCS around .037 sqm) the rest issues on how gonna j-20 act in a fight with f-22 is subjective to it's KLJ-5 performance and obviously how it's IRST gonna work (which is a advantage over f-22).

Completely immature piece of writing.

F-22A and F-35 variants are VLO to a degree that an opposing jet is left with no choice but to get really close to either to obtain weapons-grade lock on either, but the former two will finish it off much earlier instead. This is the ultimate advantage of going VLO.

If the J-20 is able to obtain weapons-grade lock on an F-22A or an F-35 variant at like 20 KM distance, then PL-15's 300 KM range is utterly useless in this scenario.

S-400 system which have a massive radar system can notice F-35 Block-3f (0.00038 m^2 uniform rcs) at 21 miles mark, for reference.

do you know how much is KLJ-5 range??

 

[LeGenD]

do you know how much is KLJ-5 range??

KLJ-7A can notice a target having uniform rcs of 3 m^2 at around 170 KM mark in ideal conditions.

Same radar system will notice an F-22A or F-35 variant at under 20 KM in ideal conditions.

 

[Mithridates]

KLJ-7A can notice a target having uniform rcs of 3 m^2 at around 170 KM mark in ideal conditions.

Same radar system will notice an F-22A or F-35 variant at under 20 KM in ideal conditions.

well that's fucked up if it's true.

 

[LeGenD]

well that's fucked up if it's true.

It is.

NRIET deputy director Wang Hongzhe disclosed in an in-door meeting that KLJ-7A have a range of 200 KM against a target having uniform rcs of 5 m^2 and 170 KM against a target having a uniform rcs of 3m^2 in ideal conditions. And this is one of the better radar systems in existence, detection range is much improved in comparison to like 10 year old designs. Detection range will continue to reduce in the face of smaller uniform rcs (you can do this manually if you know the correct equation), and figures turning up against F-22A and F-35 Block-3f are really embarrassing.

Many of the jets cannot notice either F-22A and F-35 variants until it is too late. Even sophisticated IRST pods do not offer weapons-grade lock against the aforementioned beyond 30 KM.

Following information was declassified in 2019:-

 

[Mithridates]

It is.

NRIET deputy director Wang Hongzhe disclosed in an in-door meeting that KLJ-7A have a range of 200 KM against a target having uniform rcs of 5 m^2 and 170 KM against a target having a uniform rcs of 3m^2 in ideal conditions. And this is one of the better radar systems in existence, detection range is much improved in comparison to like 10 year old designs. Detection range will continue to reduce in the face of smaller uniform rcs (you can do this manually if you know the correct equation), and figures turning up against F-22A and F-35 Block-3f are really embarrassing.

Many of the jets cannot notice either F-22A and F-35 variants until it is too late. Even sophisticated IRST pods do not offer weapons-grade lock against the aforementioned beyond 30 KM.

Following information was declassified in 2019:-

why chinese radar have such limited ranges?? our old AWG-9 radars have 370 km range, EF typhoon has 180 km (for 1 sqm targets) russians have 400 km radars, but chinese radars have limited ranges i wonder why.

 

[LeGenD]

why chinese radar have such limited ranges?? our old AWG-9 radars have 370 km range, EF typhoon has 180 km (for 1 sqm targets) russians have 400 km radars, but chinese radars have limited ranges i wonder why.

Radar systems are very complex machines, and not easy to compare (numerous design-related variations and respective output vary accordingly). The publicized detection range of any radar system against a target having (X) m^2 rcs is valid for ideal conditions; introduce bad weather and/or EW-intensive conditions then the publicized detection range is no longer applicable. However, AESA designs are more resistant to EW than the pulse-Dopplar types on average, therefore AESA designs are less likely to suffer detection range degradation in EW-intensive environments than the pulse-Doppler types.

AN/AWG-9 operates in the X band and is pulse-Dopplar design.

Euroradar CAPTOR operates in the I/J band and is pulse-Doppler design.

KLJ-7A operates in the X band and is AESA design (1st generation per American standards).

US have rolled out 4th generation AESA designs whereas Russia have rolled out 1st generation AESA design by now; massive difference in R&D capabilities, aviation standards and budget. Chinese designs are relatively less clear.

Nevertheless, detection possibilities against VLO-class jets such as B-2, F-22A and F-35 variants remain low across the board.

 

[beijingwalker]

Did you find out how that F-35 crashed? It seems that the biggest enemy of F-35 is itself if they can't find the cause of those crashes.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Did you find out how that F-35 crashed? It seems that the biggest enemy of F-35 is itself if they can't find the cause of those crashes.

It's a new plane. Look at your Su-33 copy and how it performed.

 

[Mithridates]

Radar systems are very complex machines, and not easy to compare (numerous design-related variations and respective output vary accordingly). The publicized detection range of any radar system against a target having (X) m^2 rcs is valid for ideal conditions; introduce bad weather and/or EW-intensive conditions then the publicized detection range is no longer applicable. However, AESA designs are more resistant to EW than the pulse-Dopplar types on average, therefore AESA designs are less likely to suffer detection range degradation in EW-intensive environments than the pulse-Doppler types.

AN/AWG-9 operates in the X band and is pulse-Dopplar design.

Euroradar CAPTOR operates in the I/J band and is pulse-Doppler design.

KLJ-7A operates in the X band and is AESA design (1st generation per American standards).

US have rolled out 4th generation AESA designs whereas Russia have rolled out 1st generation AESA design by now; massive difference in R&D capabilities, aviation standards and budget. Chinese designs are relatively less clear.

Nevertheless, detection possibilities against VLO-class jets such as B-2, F-22A and F-35 variants remain low across the board.

but still an f-14 would detect an f-35 way before a j-10 could.

 

[beijingwalker]

It's a new plane. Look at your Su-33 copy and how it performed.

We are talking about super expensive 5th generation fighters, F-35 seems to be the only ones crashed in this category.

 

[LeGenD]

but still an f-14 would detect an f-35 way before a j-10 could.

Detection curve for all radar systems becomes very compact beyond 0.001 rcs range. Take a look at the following chart.

Secondly, F-35 can easily jam F-14's sensor systems with its powerful EW capabilities from over 200 KM distance, but F-14 cannot return the favor - too much gap in technologies. Not just F-14, but F-16, F-15 and F-18 variants do not stand a chance either.

We are talking about super expensive 5th generation fighters, F-35 seems to be the only ones crashed in this category.

The Japanese F-35A was 'made in Japan', not sure what they did wrong.

On the whole, F-35 have very very low accident record.

 

[Mithridates]

Detection curve for all radar systems becomes very compact beyond 0.001 rcs range. Take a look at the following chart.

Secondly, F-35 can easily jam F-14's sensor systems with its powerful EW capabilities, but F-14 cannot return the favor - too much gap in technologies.


The Japanese F-35A was 'made in Japan', not sure what they did wrong.

On the whole, F-35 have very very low accident record.

this is not about f-14 vs f-35, it's about radar range, i don't know why chinese radars have limited ranges (i'm not trolling i really want to know why, is it a tactic or what??).
for example if you could have a radar with 800 km range, it would detect an f-35 in 212 km away... so radar range matters.

 

[LeGenD]

this is not about f-14 vs f-35, it's about radar range, i don't know why chinese radars have limited ranges (i'm not trolling i really want to know why, is it a tactic or what??).
for example if you could have a radar with 800 km range, it would detect an f-35 in 212 km away... so radar range matters.

Following are the most powerful Russian and Chinese radar systems in existence.

For reference.