Hollande, Merkel go to Moscow to discuss Ukraine without consulting US – report

[Umair Nawaz]

Hollande, Merkel go to Moscow to discuss Ukraine without consulting US – report
Published time: February 05, 2015 23:11
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French President Francois Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel.(AFP Photo / Sergei Supinsky)

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German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Francois Hollande did not consult Washington before deciding to visit Moscow to hold talks on the Ukrainian crisis, a source in the French government told AP.

The two leaders, who are part of the so-called ‘Normandy Four’ group along with Moscow and Kiev, decided on a trip on Wednesday night, an unnamed French government official said. Merkel and Hollande are due to arrive to the Russian capital on Friday, the next day after visiting Kiev.

“Together with Angela Merkel we have decided to take a new initiative,” Hollande told a news conference on Thursday.

READ MORE: Merkel, Hollande, Putin to discuss end to Ukraine's civil war at Moscow talks

Russian presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov said that “the leaders of the three states will discuss what specifically the countries can do to contribute to speedy end of the civil war in the southeast of Ukraine, which has escalated in recent days and resulted in many casualties.”

After the Thursday meeting with the German and French leaders, Ukrainian President Poroshenko said that the talks indicated that a ceasefire was possible in eastern Ukraine.

Meanwhile, a senior French official told local weekly Le Nouvel Observateur on Thursday that the decision to meet tet-a-tet with President Vladimir Putin was taken on Tuesday after the Russian leader called on both sides in the Ukrainian conflict to stop military actions and hostilities.

The French weekly also said that this “historic initiative” on the part of the two European leaders was preceded by “secret” talks between Paris, Berlin and Moscow.

As Hollande and Merkel are set to discuss a peaceful resolution to the conflict, the US Secretary of State John Kerry is in Ukraine to answer Kiev’s plea for weapons. Kerry told reporters that US President Barack Obama will make his decision on the possibility of sending lethal aid to Ukraine next week.

The White House however admitted on Thursday that military assistance from the US could increase bloodshed in the region.

READ MORE: Kerry shifting blame from Poroshenko govt as US mulls arms for Ukraine

Le Nouvel Observateur journalist Vincent Jauvert believes that Hollande and Merkel’s prompt decision to talk with Putin in Moscow comes as an attempt “to get ahead of the Americans who are trying to impose their solution to the problem on Westerners: a transfer of weapons to Ukraine.”

The journalist elaborates that the two leaders went to Kiev straight after Kerry as they “distrust the American administration” and want to “present their diplomatic solutions just before US Vice President Joe Biden” presents the US plan of sending lethal weapons to Kiev at the Munich security conference on Saturday.

Hollande, Merkel go to Moscow to discuss Ukraine without consulting US – report — RT News

 

[Hindustani78]

TASS: World - Putin, Hollande, Merkel continuing talks in Kremlin
World
February 06, 21:24 UTC+3
The leaders of France and Germany have come to Moscow to discuss possible ways of settling the situation in eastern Ukraine

MOSCOW, February 6. /TASS/. Russian President Vladimir Putin, French President Francois Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel are continuing talks in the Kremlin.

"The talks are being held in a narrow format, members of the delegations and experts are not present," Russian president’s press secretary Dmitry Peskov said on Friday.

After 1.5 hours of tete-a-tete talks without journalists, the leaders went out to reporters.

Putin, Merkel and Hollande posed for a couple of minutes in front of photographers and cameramen. Then Putin thanked journalists and asked them to go out.

The two European leaders have arrived in Moscow to discuss possible ways of settling the situation in eastern Ukraine. On Thursday, Merkel and Hollande paid a brief visit to Kiev to meet with Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko. No details of their Ukrainian visit were made public.

The French leader said earlier he and the German Chancellor were bringing some proposals to Moscow. No details of these proposals have been revealed so far. The British media say this peace plan is based on reworded proposals the Russian leader previously referred to the European leaders.

Earlier on Friday, Russian president’s aide Yuri Ushakov said Friday’s meeting between the three leaders had been prompted by an aggravating situation in Ukraine. "But also the numerous initiatives the Russian president voiced in phone conversations with Merkel, Hollande and Poroshenko in recent weeks have been good incentives [to the process]," Ushakov said, referring in particular to Putin’s letter to Poroshenko on January 15, in which he suggested an immediate pullback of heavy artillery.

"We are ready for a constructive conversation aiming to achieve certain agreements which will help to stabilize the situation and to establish direct contacts between official representatives of Kiev and Donbass," the presidential aide said, adding these agreements "should facilitate the more effective work of the Contact Group and assist in restoring economic ties between the Ukrainian government and the country's south-east."

 

[rockstar08]

Interesting

 

[Hindustani78]

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: 'Last chance' for peace says Hollande
7 February 2015 Last updated at 17:59 GMT

Ukraine crisis: 'Last chance' for peace says Hollande

A peace plan drawn up by France and Germany is "one of the last chances" to end the conflict in east Ukraine, French leader Francois Hollande says.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said it was unclear if the plan would succeed, but it was "definitely worth trying".

Mr Hollande said the plan would include a demilitarised zone of 50-70km (31-44 miles) around the current front line.

The leaders are attempting to end the fighting in Ukraine between government troops and pro-Russia rebels.

Russia is accused of arming pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine - claims it denies.

Mr Hollande and Mrs Merkel are due to discuss the peace plan with Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian leader Petro Poroshenko by telephone on Sunday.

Few details have emerged, but the plan is thought to be an attempt to revive a failed ceasefire deal signed in Minsk, in Belarus, in September. Since then, the rebels have seized more ground, raising alarm in Kiev and among Ukraine's backers.

The UN says fighting has left nearly 5,400 people dead since April, when the rebels seized a big swathe of the Luhansk and Donetsk regions following Russia's annexation of Crimea.

Mr Hollande and Mrs Merkel visited Kiev and Moscow earlier this week, in what appeared to be a speedily arranged visit to discuss the peace proposal.

Diplomatic talks have been continuing at an international security conference in the German city of Munich, where Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said he "sincerely" hoped the latest peace plan would "produce results".

Mrs Merkel told the conference that while there was no guarantee diplomacy would succeed, it was essential to try. "I believe we owe that much to those who are affected in Ukraine," she said.

Mr Hollande told French TV that eastern Ukrainian regions would need extensive autonomy. "These people have gone to war," he said. "It will be difficult to make them share a common life."

The US is considering pleas to send weapons to Ukraine but Mrs Merkel said she could not "imagine any situation in which improved equipment for the Ukrainian army leads to President Putin being so impressed that he believes he will lose militarily".

The statement put her in opposition to Nato's top military commander, US Air Force general Philip Breedlove, who told reporters that Western allies should not "preclude out of hand the possibility of the military option".

Analysis: Jonathan Marcus, BBC News, Munich

The escalating winter war in Ukraine provides a grim backdrop to the talks in Munich. Behind the scenes here there have been serious efforts to try to breathe life into the peace process.

But in public nobody was pulling any punches. US Vice-President Joe Biden made clear Washington's distrust of the Russians and its determination to "allow Ukraine to defend itself".

Could that mean giving it weapons? That's the way US thinking seems to be going, to the horror of most of its European allies. The German Chancellor Angela Merkel for one spoke out passionately against such a move.

But there's really no new peace plan in the offing, only a revamp of the old one that was never implemented - the Minsk Agreement of last year. If diplomacy fails and President Barack Obama goes ahead with arms deliveries to Ukraine, it may not only divide Nato, but provoke an even more aggressive Russian response.

The BBC's Sarah Rainsford in Moscow says that any peace plan would have to address the route of any new ceasefire line - given the rebel advances of recent weeks - how to enforce it, and the future status of the conflict zone.

Russia is still denying any direct role in the conflict, while Kiev insists above all that Ukraine must remain united, our correspondent says.

In Munich, Mr Poroshenko brandished what he said were passports of Russian troops who had come to Ukraine.

Mr Putin, speaking at a labour union conference in Sochi, said there was "no war", but an attempt "to curb [Russia's] development". Western sanctions could not be effective against Russia, he said, but they could "cause certain damage".

Meanwhile, Nato Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg told the BBC that he had seen evidence of increased supply of heavy military weapons to the rebels, some "very advanced - they can only come from Russia".

Some 1.2 million Ukrainians have fled their homes since the Ukraine conflict began.

On Saturday, Ukraine's military said five servicemen had been killed and 26 wounded in the past day of fighting. At least seven civilians were reported to have been killed.

Ukraine also said rebels were amassing forces around the strategic town of Debaltseve and in Granitne, 35km north-east of Mariupol.

Michael Bociurkiw, a spokesman for the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) told the BBC the situation was "getting very dire indeed".

More than 3,000 people had been evacuated in the past few days and some were being accommodated in cold conditions in train carriages, he said.

 

[nangyale]

Talks in Moscow - a two-part analysis

by Alexander Mercouris

Part one (On 6th February 2015)
They have apparently continued for 5 hours and are still not finished though it seems some sort of document is being prepared for tomorrow.

Three comments:

1. If negotiations go on for 5 hours that does not suggest a smooth and conflict free discussion.

2. One of the most interesting things about the Moscow talks is that they mainly happened without the presence of aides and officials i.e. Putin, Hollande and Merkel were by themselves save for interpreters and stenographers. Putin and Merkel are known to be masters of detail and given his background as an enarque I presume Hollande also is. However the German and French officials will be very unhappy about this. The Russians less so because since the meeting is taking place in the Kremlin they are listening in to the discussions via hidden microphones.

One wonders why this is happening? Even if the Russian officials are not listening in Merkel and Hollande will assume they are. The fact that Russian officials were not present is therefore less significant than that German and French officials have been barred from the meeting by their respective chiefs, suggesting that Merkel and Hollande do not entirely trust them.

There has been an extraordinary degree of secrecy about this whole episode and it rather looks as if Merkel and Hollande were anxious to stop leaks and to prevent information about the talks from getting out. Presumably this is why their officials were barred from the meeting. From whom one wonders do Merkel and Hollande want to keep details of the meeting secret? From the media? From other members of their own governments? From the Americans? What do they need to keep so secret? The frustration and worry on the part of all these groups must be intense.

3. The fact that the British are excluded from the talks is going down very badly with many people here in London. It has not escaped people's notice that this is the first major negotiation to settle a big crisis in Europe in which Britain is not involved since the one that ended the Franco-Prussian War in 1870. Of course it is largely the fault of the inept diplomacy of Cameron, who has taken such an extreme pro-Ukrainian position that Moscow simply doesn't see him as someone worth talking to. Also one suspects Merkel and Hollande do not trust Cameron not to leak the whole discussion to whomever they want to keep it from. Having said that it is difficult to see this as anything other than further evidence of Britain's decline into complete irrelevance. I cannot imagine Thatcher being excluded in this way. If the United Kingdom is indeed in the process of breaking up (and as I suspected the Scottish referendum settled nothing with polls indicating that the SNP may make an almost clean sweep of all the seats in Scotland in the election in May) then the slide into irrelevance still has a long way to go.

Part two (On 7th February 2015)
I am coming increasingly round to the view of Alastair Newman that Merkel and Hollande came with no plan to Moscow but with the purpose of having what diplomats call "a full and frank discussion" in private with Putin looking at all the issues in the one place in Europe - the Kremlin - where they can be confident the Americans are not spying on them. That must be why they sent their officials away.

It is also clear that Merkel's and Hollande's visit to Kiev before their flight to Moscow was just for show.

Poroshenko's officials are insisting that the question of federalisation was not discussed during Poroshenko's meeting with Hollande and Merkel. Hollande has however now come out publicly to support "autonomy" for the eastern regions i.e. federalisation, which makes it a virtual certainty that in the meeting in Moscow it was discussed. The point is that Merkel and Hollande did not want to discuss federalisation with Poroshenko because they know the junta adamantly opposes the idea and did not want him to veto it before the meeting in Moscow had even begun.

The problem is that since everyone pretends that federalisation is an internal Ukrainian issue to be agreed freely between the two Ukrainian sides, its terms will only be thrashed out once constitutional negotiations between the two Ukrainian sides begin. Since the junta will never willingly agree to federalisation, in reality its form will have to be hammered out in private by Moscow after consultations with the NAF and with Berlin and Paris and then imposed on the junta in the negotiations.

Saying this shows how fraught with difficulty this whole process is going to be.

Not only are there plenty of people in the Donbass who now oppose federalisation (and some in Moscow too I suspect) but this whole process if it is to work would somehow have to get round the roadblock of the Washington hardliners, who will undoubtedly give their full support to the junta as it tries to obstruct a process over which it has a theoretical veto. Frankly, I wonder whether it can be done.

If the process is to have any chance of success then Merkel and Hollande must screw up the courage to do what they failed to do last spring and summer, which is publicly stand up to the hardliners in Washington and Kiev and impose their will upon them. Are they really willing to do that? Given how entrenched attitudes have become over the last few months and given the false position Merkel and Hollande put themselves in by so strongly supporting Kiev, the chances of them pulling this off look much weaker than they did last spring.

I would add a few more points;

1. There is one major difference between the situation now and in the Spring, which might offer some hope of movement.

Anyone reading the Western media now cannot fail but see that there is a growing sense of defeat. Sanctions have failed to work, the Ukrainian economy is disintegrating and the junta's military is being defeated.

That was not the case last spring, when many in the West had convinced themselves that the junta would win the military struggle with the NAF. The confrontation strategy Merkel opted for in July based on that belief has totally and visibly failed. It is not therefore surprising if she is now looking for a way-out by reviving some of the ideas that were being floated by the Russians in the spring. She now has a political imperative to look for a solution in order to avoid the appearance of defeat, which would leave her position both in Germany and Europe badly weakened. That political imperative was not there in the spring. It is now. In a sense the pressure is now on her.

2. I should stress that it is Merkel who is Putin's key interlocutor. The reason Hollande is there and appears to be taking the lead is to provide Merkel with cover. The one thing Merkel cannot afford politically is the appearance of a Moscow-Berlin stitch-up that the hardliners in Washington, Kiev, London, Warsaw and the Baltic States will claim is a new Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact to divide Europe into German and Russian spheres of influence. Whether we like it or not in Germany the shadow of Hitler still hangs heavy and exposes Berlin to endless moral blackmail whenever it tries to pursue with Moscow an independent course. That is why Merkel needs Hollande present when she meets Putin for talks of the sort she's just had in Moscow.

3. One other possible sign of hope is that there is some evidence that a sea-change in European and especially German opinion may be underway.

Whatever the purpose of the ongoing debate in Washington about sending weapons to the junta, whether it is a serious proposal or an attempt to secure diplomatic leverage or a combination of the two, it has horrified opinion in Europe, bringing home to many people there how fundamentally nihilistic US policy has become.

All the talk in the Western media yesterday and this morning is of a split between Europe and the US. That is going much too far. However for the first time there is public disagreement in Europe with Washington on the Ukrainian question. Whether that crystallises into an actual break with Washington leading to a serious and sustained European attempt to reach a diplomatic solution to the Ukrainian crisis against Washington's wishes is an altogether different question. I have to say that for the moment I very much doubt it.

4. I remain deeply pessimistic about this whole process. The best opportunity to settle this conflict diplomatically was last spring. I cannot help but feel that as Peter Lavelle said on the Crosstalk in which I appeared yesterday, the train has now left the station.

A peaceful solution to the Ukrainian conflict ultimately depends on European resolve to face down the hardliners in Washington and Kiev. It is going to be much harder to do this now than it was last year.

Moreover, despite the bad news on the economy and on the front line in Debaltsevo, the hardliners in Kiev are bound to have been emboldened by all the talk in Washington about sending them arms, which is going to make the effort to bring them round even harder than it already is.

The besetting problem of this whole crisis is that the Europeans have never shown either the resolve or the realism to face the hardliners down though it is certainly within their power to do so. In Merkel's case one has to wonder whether her heart is in it anyway. My view remains that this situation will only be resolved by war, and that the negotiations in Moscow will prove just another footnote to that.

5. If I am wrong and some autonomy really is granted to the Donbass, then I make one confident prediction. This is that the Ukraine will in that case disintegrate even more rapidly than it would have done if federalisation had been agreed upon last spring or summer.

Following such a terrible war, I cannot see people in the Donbass accepting federalisation as anything other than a stepping stone to eventual secession and union with Russia. If the Donbass secures autonomy, I cannot see people in places like Odessa and Kharkov failing to press for an at least equivalent degree of autonomy to that granted to the Donbass. If the Europeans are prepared to see the Donbass achieve autonomy, by what logic can they deny it to the people of Odessa and Kharkov?

More to the point, the November elections showed the emergence of what looks like an increasingly strong potential autonomy or even independence movement in Galicia.

Given that a terrible war has been fought and lost in the east to defeat "separatism" in the Donbass, and given the widespread disillusion with the junta in Kiev, it is difficult to see how many people in Galicia will not feel betrayed if the grant of federalisation to the Donbass is now imposed on them after so many of their men died to prevent it. If in reaction Galicia presses for the same sort of autonomy as the Donbass - which it could well do - then the Ukraine is finished. I doubt it would hold together for more than a few months. If federalisation had been granted last spring or summer before the war began then it is possible - likely even - that the Ukraine could have been held together in a sort of state of suspended animation at least for a while. I don't think there's much chance of that now.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

hope russia comes out a clear winner in this saga.

 

[Hindustani78]

Merkel set for Obama meeting in US, amid splits over Ukraine policy - watch on - uatoday.tv

German leader Angela Merkel visits US President Barack Obama on Monday amid splits over Ukraine policy. Merkel and other EU leaders are opposed to arming Ukraine in its conflict with Russian-backed militants, while the White House has been more outspoken on the possibility of providing Kyiv with weapons.

During a speech in Washington last September, Ukrainian President Poroshenko told American lawmakers that: "Ukraine cannot win the war with blankets".

Later in the year, the US Congress passed a bill allowing Obama to support Ukraine militarily against Russia-backed aggression, although he has yet to take action.

The expected new Pentagon chief Ashton Carter said recently he was 'inclined' to provide weapons, such as anti-tank missiles, to Ukraine.

Merkel and French President Francois Hollande have been on a diplomacy push in recent days, stopping off in Kyiv and Moscow in a bid to end the ten-month long conflict.

Further talks involving the two leaders, alongside Poroshenko and Russian President Putin, are expected to be held on Wednesday.

 

[Tshering22]

Merkel and Hollande are just US senators of two provinces speaking different languages in the NATO nation.

Why is everyone so aggressive against Russia when the war was started USA?

 

[Hindustani78]

President Obama meets with German Chancellor Angela Merkel to discuss the crisis in Ukraine at the White House, February 9, 2015.

Credit: Reuters/Kevin Lamarque

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

The US knew about these scheduled meetings.

Here's the play:

1. Pres. Obama wants an end in Ukraine
2. Republicans in the US want to up the ante further by supplying weapons to Ukraine
3. Putin is hurting from the sanctions and he also wants an end, its no denying the increasing involvement of Russian Soldiers in Ukraine's "Insurgency"
4. Merkel and Hollende are playing Henry Kissenger's Shuttle Diplomacy

 

[MastanKhan]

President Obama meets with German Chancellor Angela Merkel to discuss the crisis in Ukraine at the White House, February 9, 2015.

Credit: Reuters/Kevin Lamarque

Their body language is not very good.

 

[Hindustani78]

Their body language is not very good.

Situation in Ukraine is really not good and its clearly visible that Germany and France are even aware of it . Ukraine to need modern weapons, French president did told that war will be the scenerio if there would be no peaceful settlement.

United states has cut down its troops in Europe and the result is infront of us.