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High time the ISI reforms its policies

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In the 80's, Pakistan's ISI collaborated closely with the CIA inside Afghanistan via the Mujahideen. The CIA funded & gave arms to the Mujahideen that had people like Osama bin Laden, Mullah Omar, Haqqani, Hekmatyar, Ahmad Shah Masood in it. Hence, it was the ISI & the CIA that created this monster together. When the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan in the late 80's, the various members of the Mujahideen clashed with one another. Osama bin Laden created the Al Qaeda in 1988, Mullah Omar created in the Taliban in the 90's, Haqqani created the Haqqani network, Hekmatyar created his Hizb-e-Gulbideen group, Masood created the Northern Alliance.

While the US left the region, Pakistan had to deal with all these groups on their own. The Sipah Sahaba, a faction of the Al-Qaeda, curtailed the Shia influence inside Pakistan from the Iran Revolution in the 90s. The Sipah Sahaba was banned by Musharraf in 2002, & later off-shooted into the LeJ. The LeT, JeM are both factions of the AQ, & they have caused trouble inside Pakistan as well, but the Pakistani establishment in the past has believed that limited casualties inside Pakistan were 'permitted' if they could achieve their purposes across the borders (inside Indian administered Kashmir & Afghanistan).

In the past, the Pakistani establishment tolerated & even supported certain anti-state elements to an extent as long as they achieved their goals in Indian administered Kashmir & Afghanistan. But now (since 9/11), it has abandoned many of those anti-state elements/groups (Al-Qaeda & its factions) to a large extent, but it is possible that certain links are still being maintained with some of those even today, mainly to fight the American & NATO forces inside Afghanistan. That is not good for Pakistan's internal security & its people, & any existing ties should be disbanded. Even though anti-state groups are not being tolerated the same way they were before, they aren't being tackled either. Maybe the establishment fears taking them head on could provoke a civil war inside Pakistan?

It is possible that the Pakistan Establishment as per its policy gave refuge to Osama bin Laden, & to Zawahiri as well; so that they could use his group to attack the US & NATO forces inside Afghanistan, even though their group Al-Qaeda & its various factions are a internal security threat (JeM, LeJ) to Pakistan themselves. This seems like a pretty unlikely scenario though, as Pakistan has stopped openly tolerating them since 9/11, & these anti-state groups have declared the Pakistani Establishment as their number one enemy. The second scenario is that even though the Pakistani Establishment has disbanded its ties with anti-state groups (AQ, TTP) to a large extent, there are certain people that have infiltrated into Pakistan's ISI have sympathies with anti-state groups, & go against the agency's policy of 'fighting these anti-state groups' to protect certain individuals. This is a much more probable scenario especially because people like Osama bin Laden, Mehsud, Fazlullah have declared Jihad on the Pakistani Establishment; but an extremely poor one for Pakistan. The third scenario is that the CIA networks inside Pakistan have been supporting the Al-Qaeda & TTP to destabilize Pakistan, which is entirely possible as well, but there is no real proof for that because apparently, the CIA has infiltrated deep inside Pakistan as well. All CIA networks need to be identified and eradicated from Pakistan. All of the three scenarios are extremely precarious for Pakistan, & the Pakistan Establishment needs to deal with this situation appropriately in the best interest for Pakistan. The Pakistani Establishment definitely needs to rethink its policies.

The US & the CIA are no better than Pakistan in this matter, with their relationships & contacts with international Islamic networks much more diverse than Pakistan's. Their relationships with the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, Kosovo Liberation Army, Afghan Mujahideen (that later fragmented into different groups after the Soviet War), Al-Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood, Hizb-ul-Tahrir etc are well documented. Hence the CIA is even 'worse' than the ISI at these things. So it is very wrong to label Pakistan as something which intelligence agencies do all the time, especially as the ISI is very similar to the CIA in many ways. This is all unethical stuff, but this is also the kind of stuff intelligence agencies do to each other, & their respective countries, & even inside their countries at times.

When the CIA that had created the Mujahideen monster in the 80s & left the region without giving a second look, it was Pakistan that had to deal with this monster all by itself. So it is extremely foolhardy to blame Pakistan for all this, when it was a mess created mainly by the CIA, Saudi Arabia, & the ISI assisted them. I believe 'the monster' is too big to be destroyed by either Pakistan or the US. This monster is capable of finishing off Pakistan & Afghanistan if the establishments of these nations go against them. The Pakistani establishment has realized this, & this is why the US is frustrated with them. Pakistan has identified the eminent threats to it (Al-Qaeda, TTP), & is fighting them head on. It is not fighting the groups that are not an imminent threat to it. The US doesn't seem to realize that this monster is too big to be destroyed, & even though the situation inside Afghanistan gets worse & worse each day as a response to US operations inside the country, they still don't seem to realize it.
 
how come when its about creating the terror monster its always USA who is responsible and when its about defeating USSR using the same terror monster, its all Pakistan... Selective memory..??
 
Another little "fig-leaf" piece on arzepakistan. Sadly, the "fig-leaf" is shrinking; and shrinking so much that it is unable to cover the "family jewels" in any worth-while manner!
 
how come when its about creating the terror monster its always USA who is responsible and when its about defeating USSR using the same terror monster, its all Pakistan... Selective memory..??

Because all the terrorist groups inside Pakistan today are an off-shoot of the Mujahideen in the 1980s, which the CIA created in collaboration with Saudi Arabia, & support from the ISI. Even the militancy inside Kashmir took place in the 90s, & that was an offshoot of the Mujahideen as well.
 
Because all the terrorist groups inside Pakistan today are an off-shoot of the Mujahideen in the 1980s, which the CIA created in collaboration with Saudi Arabia, & support from the ISI. Even the militancy inside Kashmir took place in the 90s, & that was an offshoot of the Mujahideen as well.

Then pakistan and pakistanis should blame themselves as much as they blame the americans.
 
Because all the terrorist groups inside Pakistan today are an off-shoot of the Mujahideen in the 1980s, which the CIA created in collaboration with Saudi Arabia, & support from the ISI. Even the militancy inside Kashmir took place in the 90s, & that was an offshoot of the Mujahideen as well.

Wrong - the Kashmir insurgency was never an offshoot of the Mujaheddin, though the underlying idea was the same.

ISI just figured that if the mighty USSR can be sent packing in Afghanistan why not India in Kashmir ?

The only thing they underestimated was India's resolve and the world's support for the cause.

Another little "fig-leaf" piece on arzepakistan. Sadly, the "fig-leaf" is shrinking; and shrinking so much that it is unable to cover the "family jewels" in any worth-while manner!

"Arzepakistan" ...is it meant to be a pun ? Funny name, I would say.
 
Wrong - the Kashmir insurgency was never an offshoot of the Mujaheddin, though the underlying ideawas the same.

ISI just figured that if the mighty USSR can be sent packing in Afghanistan why not India in Kashmir ?

The only thing they underestimate was India's resolve and the world's support for the cause.

The LeT is a faction of the Al-Qaeda, & the Al-Qaeda itself was an off-shoot of the Mujahideen. So you're totally wrong there. The Mujahideen were formed in the early 80s, the LeT as a wing of the Al-Qaeda was formed in the 90s. All the militancy inside Kashmir happened in the 90s.
 
The LeT is a faction of the Al-Qaeda, & the Al-Qaeda itself was an off-shoot of the Mujahideen. So you're totally wrong there. The Mujahideen were formed in the early 80s, the LeT were formed in the 90s. All the militancy inside Kashmir happened in the 90s.

LeT,JeM came into the picture much later.

The original belligerents were the Hizbul,JKLF etc which started as Kashmiri outfits helped by Pakistan.

Only when the JKLF decided that the armed struggle will not succeed against India. the recruiting ground for Kashmiri youngsters who crossed the border to receive training began to dry up and many pro-independent leaders were assasinated by pro-Pakistan militants, the ISI turned to LeT and its Pakistani Punjabi recruits to start doing the dirty job in the name of jihad.
 
LeT,JeM came into the picture much later.

The original belligerents were the Hizbul,JKLF etc which started as Kashmiri outfits helped by Pakistan.

Only when the JKLF decided that the armed struggle will not succeed against India and the recruiting ground for Kashmiri youngsters who crossed the border to receive training began to dry up, the ISI turned to LeT and its Pakistani Punjabi recruits to start doing the dirty job in the name of jihad.

The JKLF were formed in Birmingham, UK in the late 70s, not Pakistan; & operated from there as well. Furthermore, the JKLF were Kashmir nationalists, meaning they wanted independence from both India & Pakistan. The Hizbul Mujahideen were formed after the Soviet Afghan war as well.
 
Wrong - the Kashmir insurgency was never an offshoot of the Mujaheddin, though the underlying idea was the same.

ISI just figured that if the mighty USSR can be sent packing in Afghanistan why not India in Kashmir ?

The only thing they underestimated was India's resolve and the world's support for the cause.

The only connection to the Mujahideen, was employment of those guys as 'mercenaries' to boltser up a faltering insurgency.
After the end of the Afghan campaign, there were thousands of those "Madarsa Mujahideen" who were roaming around unemployed (not to mention the huge caches of arms accessible to them).
That is when the ISI (and Pakistani deep state) conjured up this "brain-wave" of diverting them to Jammu and Kashmir. Because they knew very well what a "monstrous migraine" they could be for Pakistan.

The Pakistani establishment feared discovering the difference between good taliban and bad taliban. Knowing fully well that both are Cobras, with deadly venom. Now the Chickens (or Cobras) are actually coming home to roost.
 
But the JKLF were formed in Birmingham, UK in the late 70s; & operated from there as well. Furthermore, the JKLF were Kashmir nationalists, meaning they wanted independence from both India & Pakistan. The Hizbul Mujahideen were formed after the Soviet Afghan war as well.

That is what I meant by the line - underlying idea was the same - though the foot soldiers were NOT the same.

The LeT,JeM came into the Kashmir party rather late - perhaps during the end of the twentieth century.

The only connection to the Mujahideen, was employment of those guys as 'mercenaries' to boltser up a faltering insurgency.
After the end of the Afghan campaign, there were thousands of those "Madarsa Mujahideen" who were roaming around unemployed (not to mention the huge caches of arms accessible to them).
That is when the ISI (and Pakistani deep state) conjured up this "brain-wave" of diverting them to Jammu and Kashmir. Because they knew very well what a "monstrous migraine" they could be for Pakistan.

The Pakistani establishment feared discovering the difference between good taliban and bad taliban. Knowing fully well that both are Cobras, with deadly venom. Now the Chickens (or Cobras) are actually coming home to roost.

But sir ji, was not the initial phase of the Kashmir insurgency -from its start in 1987 to early nineties - fought almost wholly by the Kashmiri recruits from either side of the border, of course trained by the PA/ISI ?
 
That is what I meant by the line - underlying idea was the same - though the foot soldiers were NOT the same.

The LeT,JeM came into the Kashmir party rather late - perhaps during the end of the twentieth century.

But don't Indians say that Pakistan's ISI started recruiting people from Afghanistan/Pakistan's tribal areas inside Kashmir? The JKLF before that were clearly the responsibility of the UK, not Pakistan.
 
But don't Indians say that Pakistan's ISI started recruiting people from Afghanistan/Pakistan's tribal areas inside Kashmir? The JKLF were clearly the responsibility of the UK, not Pakistan.

Please read my posts in entirety Bilal and understand them ;

Only after the JKLF decided that the armed struggle will not succeed against India, the recruiting ground for Kashmiri youngsters who crossed the border to receive training began to dry up and many pro-independent leaders were assassinated by pro-Pakistan militants, the ISI turned to LeT and its Pakistani Punjabi recruits to start doing the dirty job in the name of jihad.

The PA/ISI started recruiting Pakistanis for the job only when the above mentioned happened. Now its almost a pure Pakistani Punjabi insurgency from its Kashmiri roots at the start.

JKLF recruits were trained by Pakistan not UK.
 
Please read my posts in entirety Bilal and understand them ;

Only after the JKLF decided that the armed struggle will not succeed against India, the recruiting ground for Kashmiri youngsters who crossed the border to receive training began to dry up and many pro-independent leaders were assassinated by pro-Pakistan militants, the ISI turned to LeT and its Pakistani Punjabi recruits to start doing the dirty job in the name of jihad.

The PA/ISI started recruiting Pakistanis for the job only when the above mentioned happened. Now its almost a pure Pakistani Punjabi insurgency from its Kashmiri roots at the start.

JKLF recruits were trained by Pakistan not UK.

JKLF was formed in the UK, & the recruits were British Kashmiris. They wanted an independent Kashmir from Pakistan as well.
 
JKLF was formed in the UK, & the recruits were British Kashmiris. They wanted an independent Kashmir from Pakistan as well.

You must be talking out of something else when you say the recruits were British Kashmiris. They might have given financial support but the foots soldiers were disillusioned Kashmiris from J&K and P0K.

No well to do British Kashmiris (Mirpuris) were foolish enough to embark on a certain suicide.

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