Headley, Rana accuse ISI and Pak Govt for Mumbai Attacks

[SMC]

The story in brief is this:

ISI engaged its agents, directly or indirectly, to do the groundwork in advance for the noble cause to be carried out in Mumbai. Geelani a.k.a Headley, for example, was engaged to carry out recce while Rana was engaged via Headley, to provide material support for the cuase. Members of LeT, under the able leadership of the great great professor Hafiz, then carried out the noble cause. All of it happened under watchful eyes of ISI.

So you see, as much as you wish for it, there is still no disconnect.

This guy's claiming that LeT WAS NOT INVOLVED AT ALL. Please try to read his claims before trying to sound witty like you have done many times before.

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

Dark truth? Whole world believing this?

This case isn't even done yet - look at how the judges are treating his claims. So does bharat now equal the whole world? Before it used to be bharat + some parts of the west. LOL.

Duh! Yeah you can laugh at your ignorance...

 

[Capt.Popeye]

This guy's claiming that LeT WAS NOT INVOLVED AT ALL. Please try to read his claims before trying to sound witty like you have done many times before.

This guy's only claiming that he was not involved with the LET; rather that he worked with the ISI to set up the operation. And his connection was Gilani. Its the other guy Gilani who has talked about his own involvement with the LET, ISI and other organisations in the preparations. That is the situation upto now. As the trial proceeds, he is likely to let out more information. Which will have larger ramifications, not just in this trial but elsewhere as well.
This is early days yet.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

trusting pakistan is going to bring similar consequences..we have seen that for decades.

Exactly Pakistanis can argue and delude themselves all they want, the truth is geo-politically Pakistan does not matter to Indian strategists. Just another state in a precarious condition , fighting for stability. All we should be concerned with is the safety of our borders , and continued infiltration of Pakistan nationals for subersive activities on our soil. Its neither necessary nor relevant to "normalize " relations at this stage .All sticky issues(Kashmir , Water issue ) will automatically fall into place once we build up a strong position by virtue of our economy , military and international clout.

Engaging China makes sense since they are a rising economy and military - basically they are progressive and its essential to co-operate if we are to achieve our economic /geo-political goals .

 

[Bang Galore]

Just to add to that - group blamed by bharati government and the individuals/groups sanctioned was only LeT and/or JuD. Never it was claimed that only ISI was involved, only LeT or LeT supported by ISI.

But his claims beg the question. When was the last time such an attack carried out by an intelligence agency? If secret services are involved they normally use some other group to carry out the attacks.

What about Hafiz Saeed then? So will bharatis stop asking for his head?

You are reading it completely wrong. Nowhere has Rana said that the LeT was not involved; all that he said was that he was acting on behalf of the ISI & not the LeT. He is trying to use a defence based on the argument that he was acting on behalf of a state agency & not a non state actor.

This testimony btw holds tremendous importance in the civil case against the ISI bosses as this is certainly going to be used to tie the ISI with the Mumbai attacks.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

Exactly Pakistanis can argue and delude themselves all they want, the truth is geo-politically Pakistan does not matter to Indian strategists. Just another state in a precarious condition , fighting for stability. All we should be concerned with is the safety of our borders , and continued infiltration of Pakistan nationals for subersive activities on our soil. Its neither necessary nor relevant to "normalize " relations at this stage .All sticky issues(Kashmir , Water issue ) will automatically fall into place once we build up a strong position by virtue of our economy , military and international clout.

Engaging China makes sense since they are a rising economy and military - basically they are progressive and its essential to co-operate if we are to achieve our economic /geo-political goals .

totally agreed. Indian Govt has been giving too much improtance to Pakistan. Infact I am strictly against this move of resuming any kind of dialogue or cricket or any other ties with them. From this headley revelations ( though our intelligence agencies already said) that its the Pakistani state establishment behind the attacks, I see no reason why we should allow an inch to pakistan on this matter...If they can play such dirty games of attacking civilians, then i would never allow a condition where there is a possibility of a stable pakistan. but unfortunately Congress is making a huge mistake this time IMO.

 

[Peshwa]

You are reading it completely wrong. Nowhere has Rana said that the LeT was not involved; all that he said was that he was acting on behalf of the ISI & not the LeT. He is trying to use a defence based on the argument that he was acting on behalf of a state agency & not a non state actor.

This testimony btw holds tremendous importance in the civil case against the ISI bosses as this is certainly going to be used to tie the ISI with the Mumbai attacks.

Exactly....He would rather be called a spy/ISI stooge than be a terrorist...

 

[Icarus]

You know, we get this kind of wild claim out of the blue every couple of days but until we can see some proof about these "Earth-Shaking" confessions, I am afraid all they will do is just make good headlines. We are not allowed to see the culprits, talk to them, heck you won't even allow an interrogator from a neutral third country to interview the culprits and hand over the findings to us, so how are we supposed to take action against those responsible. Unless of course these are just more baseless claims to add masala to our neighbourly rivalry which seems to be the case as almost 3 years after the Mumbai attacks all the info we have about this Headley character is that he is a naturalized American citizen of Pakistani descent, studied at CCH and zip, nothing else.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Exactly....He would rather be called a spy/ISI stooge than be a terrorist...

Why would'nt he? If he is convicted, he stands to face a far stiffer sentence. Its time to be patient; he has a longer song to sing-- from his days as an 'Abdalian' to his service in PA......then his jump across the Atlantic to his ISI connection.

But the point to really note; is that how the testimony and evidence in this case will impact other legal actions. IMO, this will not be the last "26/11 related litigation in US courts".

 

[KS]

You know, we get this kind of wild claim out of the blue every couple of days but until we can see 1)some proof about these "Earth-Shaking" confessions, I am afraid all they will do is just make good headlines. 2) We are not allowed to see the culprits, talk to them, 3) heck you won't even allow an interrogator from a neutral third country to interview the culprits and hand over the findings to us, so how are we supposed to take action against those responsible. Unless of course these are just more baseless claims to add masala to our neighbourly rivalry which seems to be the case as almost 3 years after the Mumbai attacks all the info we have about this Headley character is that he is a naturalized American citizen of Pakistani descent, studied at CCH and zip, nothing else.

1) Err.....Confessions itself are considered as proof in many countries, if not most countries.

2) The accused are not allowed to 'interrogate' the witness in any judicial system

3) The US itself is a neutral country I believe.And the parties involved are India and Pakistan. Surely you did not mean Latvia or Mongolia as a neutral third country.

Ontopic : Aside from the obvious I think this is a pressure tactic by the US on the Pakistan that if you dont 'do more', we have enough cards to nail you. They will just link this 'confession' to the ongoing court case in New York against the ISI and voila you have a potent mix.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I truly have NO idea why Pakistanis continue to stick their heads in the sand and deny any reports that even remotely make Pakistan look bad. Surely in the face of such mountains of irrefutable proof you cannot accept that even a SMALL proportion of the ISI has rogue and dangerous elements inside it doing such things. And I'm not just talking about 26/11 but EVERYTHING that is going on. I mean the WORLD knows about some elements of the ISI it is FACT for everyone except you. Why? Pride? I mean some members on hear seem very well informed and educated but when the slightest mention of Pakistan/Pakistanis doing wrong is suggested the frankly RIDICULOUS conspiracies theories involving CIA, RAW, MOSSAD,IB, MI5,MI6 (infact the whole alphabet). Is it really easier to believe the ENTIRE WORLD has some sort of anti-Pakistan agenda and are working together in private to damage her for no apparent reason and no FACTS or that Pakistan actually is involved in at least some unscrupulous activities?

Is the entire population of Pakistan clinically paranoid, extremely ignorant/ arrogant or just completely brainwashed? Or all of the above?

 

[Jackdaws]

I truly have NO idea why Pakistanis continue to stick their heads in the sand and deny any reports that even remotely make Pakistan look bad. Surely in the face of such mountains of irrefutable proof you cannot accept that even a SMALL proportion of the ISI has rogue and dangerous elements inside it doing such things. And I'm not just talking about 26/11 but EVERYTHING that is going on. I mean the WORLD knows about some elements of the ISI it is FACT for everyone except you. Why? Pride? I mean some members on hear seem very well informed and educated but when the slightest mention of Pakistan/Pakistanis doing wrong is suggested the frankly RIDICULOUS conspiracies theories involving CIA, RAW, MOSSAD,IB, MI5,MI6 (infact the whole alphabet). Is it really easier to believe the ENTIRE WORLD has some sort of anti-Pakistan agenda and are working together in private to damage her for no apparent reason and no FACTS or that Pakistan actually is involved in at least some unscrupulous activities?

Is the entire population of Pakistan clinically paranoid, extremely ignorant/ arrogant or just completely brainwashed? Or all of the above?

The key question is Why - i mean why do they think the world is anti-Pakistan?

 

[Abingdonboy]

The key question is Why - i mean why do they think the world is anti-Pakistan?

Not being an expert by any means but having done some research in this field- it seems to be the result of huge amounts of nationalist propaganda started before partition with the two-nations theory, intensified by British divisionist tactics and continued as Pakistan has faced crisis after crisis. This has only been made worse by the wave of destructive Islamic radicalism t has taken place post partition that has fed on the religious identity of the Pakistani state. Nations in crisis often become very intrevert and the fact for much of Pakistan's short history has been under military rule has only fermented the propaganda realesed by the state which has sought to corrupt the minds of its people to justify their actions (wars,coups etc).

Social, economic and political crisis in recent years has only made things worse. And the inherent "younger brother" insecurity that naturally exists made worse by the fact that India seems to do no wrong (rising world image, stable successful economy, victorious military history) in these situations the losers naturally feel victimised and hard done by.

The fact is Pakistan is not unique- look at N/S Korea, similar story- introvert, secluded nation with strong central power looked upon as a pariah against the economic success story of their neighbours. In fact these two ongoing conflicts have very similar factors and consequences, the fact that in both cases the two nations are carved out of the same landscape and predominantly of similar races means that the weaker of the two parties in each case feel that something must be hindering them if they cannot achieve similar success dispute effectively being the same people- conspiracies arise from this notion.

 

[Rafi]

indian hubris booka nanga Hindustan compares us to N/K....

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

indian hubris booka nanga Hindustan compares us to N/K....

Look ruffy, if you want biscuits, go back to your leftover Pakistan.

Shoo Shoo...