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Hanergy chairman says talk of regulatory probe 'purely rumor'

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Hanergy chairman says talk of regulatory probe 'purely rumor'
May 28, 2015

Chairman of China's Hanergy Thin Film Power Group dismissed as "rumors" reports that the solar power company is under investigation by Hong Kong's market watchdog.

Li Hejun, the country's former richest man, made the comment during an interview with Xinhua News Agency, after trading in the Chinese solar company's shares was halted last week as the stock price fell nearly 50 percent.

"This is purely a rumor, it's absolutely baseless," Li told Xinhua in the interview posted on Youku.com. He said that if the company was being investigated he would be the first to know. "I should know and I don't know."

He said that Hanergy Thin Power does not owe banks any principal or interest payments and that all of Hanergy's production lines were in full production, with plans to roll out further capacity at a plant in Heyuan in August.

The solar tycoon saw HK$116 billion ($15 billion) of his fortunes wiped out on May 20 as shares in the Hong Kong-listed company plunged 47 percent within 24 minutes and were later suspended. Hanergy said after the meltdown that it was preparing an announcement "containing inside information."

What triggered the plunge is yet not clear. Hanergy's parent company Beijing-based Hanergy Holding Group Ltd said on May 21 that all was well and operations were running as normal.

The statement, which was posted on its website, didn't address Hanergy Thin Film's share plunge nor respond to a report by Reuters that the company was under investigation.

Reuters reported on May 20 that Hanergy Thin Film was under investigation for market manipulation by Hong Kong's Securities and Futures Commission.

Hanergy Thin Film's stock had surged more than sixfold in the past year, making it the world's most valuable solar company worth more than HK$300 billion.

Even with Hanergy's decline, the company is still valued at HK$163 billion, more than four times bigger than US-based First Solar Inc.

According to media reports, Tempe, First Solar and Japan's Solar Frontier K.K. dominate the market for thin-film solar cells.
 
I didn't buy that. I only buy 80,000 yuan worth of shares on a Chinese drug company, now it's more than 500, 000 yuan. Should I sell them now or wait for some time? My dad bought the same one, from half a million to two million! Maybe just sell half of them.
 
I didn't buy that. I only buy 80,000 yuan worth of shares on a Chinese drug company, now it's more than 500, 000 yuan. Should I sell them now or wait for some time? My dad bought the same one, from half a million to two million! Maybe just sell half of them.

Sell!

The Chinese markets are frankly unexplainable! They have got nothing to do with actual Market Dynamics, and more to do with storing liquidity. China has got too much liquidity, and no place to store.

Also, there is huge marginal lending going out.

The moment market goes bust, it will be sudden and brutal, yet I am not sure if Chinese consumers understand it. Do they realize that their money can vanish in a day?

Finally, this Hanergy guy needs a bashing. There were many reported peculiarities in his stock operations for a long time. He also shorted his own stock days before it crashed.
 
Sell!

The Chinese markets are frankly unexplainable! They have got nothing to do with actual Market Dynamics, and more to do with storing liquidity. China has got too much liquidity, and no place to store.

Also, there is huge marginal lending going out.

The moment market goes bust, it will be sudden and brutal, yet I am not sure if Chinese consumers understand it. Do they realize that their money can vanish in a day?

Finally, this Hanergy guy needs a bashing. There were many reported peculiarities in his stock operations for a long time. He also shorted his own stock days before it crashed.
I'm a not into who deserves a bashing. The company i‘ve invested is undergoing recombination. It will increase from 30yuan per share to at least 35-40yuan. I have 15000shares, I will sell some this week. But I will wait with at least 10,000 shares.
 
I didn't buy that. I only buy 80,000 yuan worth of shares on a Chinese drug company, now it's more than 500, 000 yuan. Should I sell them now or wait for some time? My dad bought the same one, from half a million to two million! Maybe just sell half of them.
From another stock market investor, my opinion, sell enough to cover your initial cost than the remaining is profit regardless which way the stock market go
do you guys get ding for taxes in China for making money in stock market?

Hanergy chairman says talk of regulatory probe 'purely rumor'
May 28, 2015

Chairman of China's Hanergy Thin Film Power Group dismissed as "rumors" reports that the solar power company is under investigation by Hong Kong's market watchdog.

Li Hejun, the country's former richest man, made the comment during an interview with Xinhua News Agency, after trading in the Chinese solar company's shares was halted last week as the stock price fell nearly 50 percent.

"This is purely a rumor, it's absolutely baseless," Li told Xinhua in the interview posted on Youku.com. He said that if the company was being investigated he would be the first to know. "I should know and I don't know."

He said that Hanergy Thin Power does not owe banks any principal or interest payments and that all of Hanergy's production lines were in full production, with plans to roll out further capacity at a plant in Heyuan in August.

The solar tycoon saw HK$116 billion ($15 billion) of his fortunes wiped out on May 20 as shares in the Hong Kong-listed company plunged 47 percent within 24 minutes and were later suspended. Hanergy said after the meltdown that it was preparing an announcement "containing inside information."

What triggered the plunge is yet not clear. Hanergy's parent company Beijing-based Hanergy Holding Group Ltd said on May 21 that all was well and operations were running as normal.

The statement, which was posted on its website, didn't address Hanergy Thin Film's share plunge nor respond to a report by Reuters that the company was under investigation.

Reuters reported on May 20 that Hanergy Thin Film was under investigation for market manipulation by Hong Kong's Securities and Futures Commission.

Hanergy Thin Film's stock had surged more than sixfold in the past year, making it the world's most valuable solar company worth more than HK$300 billion.

Even with Hanergy's decline, the company is still valued at HK$163 billion, more than four times bigger than US-based First Solar Inc.

According to media reports, Tempe, First Solar and Japan's Solar Frontier K.K. dominate the market for thin-film solar cells.

If this CEO is telling the truth Hanergy would be a buy! Once the investigation is over and if proven to be false, it will be up 50%.

@AndrewJin
 
If this CEO is telling the truth Hanergy would be a buy! Once the investigation is over and if proven to be false, it will be up 50%.

It appears nothing was out of ordinary before the sudden and speedy meltdown which forced the company to suspend the shares.

We have to wait and see until China's regulators complete the investigation. Could be a sort of insider problem. Got to learn to live with capitalism. LOL.
 
From another stock market investor, my opinion, sell enough to cover your initial cost than the remaining is profit regardless which way the stock market go
do you guys get ding for taxes in China for making money in stock market?



If this CEO is telling the truth Hanergy would be a buy! Once the investigation is over and if proven to be false, it will be up 50%.

@AndrewJin
I will sell less than 5000 shares at around 32-33yuan per share, already double my initial investment at 80,000yuan:-).
Then the remaining 10000 shares, let me wait.
The bigger problem is my father's.
 
It appears nothing was out of ordinary before the sudden and speedy meltdown which forced the company to suspend the shares.

We have to wait and see until China's regulators complete the investigation. Could be a sort of insider problem. Got to learn to live with capitalism. LOL.
Actually insider problems if you mean insider trading is against securities rule but can make the stock prices go down. If insiders are selling it means they know ahead that there is potential problem. Hoping this is just BS and Hanergy would bounce back.
Remember what happened with Sinoforest. A lot of Canadian investors got screwed , LOL.
 
Fishing for fortune: The young dive into stocks
Shanghai Daily, May 28, 2015

"Risk," Warren Buffett once famously observed, "comes from not knowing what you are doing." In China's current bull market frenzy, it's not hard to find young people jumping on a bandwagon without knowing where it's going.

People like Akira Zuo, 25.

She's planning to get married by the end of this year and decided the surging stock market would be a good place to earn some extra money before settling down to family life.

Why not? The Shanghai Composite Index has almost doubled in the past six months to nearly 5,000. Everyone is talking about it. The "greed and fear" factors that traditionally drive stock markets have given way to greed alone.

Zuo's future mother-in-law, who also dabbles in the stock market, is worried.

"She thinks she's brave, but actually she is young, inexperienced and blind," says the prospective in-law. "She hasn't tasted the horror of a stock market like we who are older have. When the bear hits, she will be completely shocked. I hope she doesn't lose all her savings."

In April, more than 4 million new stock accounts were opened in just one week, compared with less than 100,000 in April 2014.

For the older generation, investment in the stock market has been a primary way to chase higher yields than the returns they can get from interest-bearing bank deposits.

For the young, investment is often just the current fad, fed by a naive belief that the bottom will never fall out of a rising market.

"Why should I be afraid?" Zuo told Shanghai Daily at the end of April, when she collected profit of about 50 percent on an initial investment of 100,000 yuan (US$16,122) — all her savings from three years of work.

"I don't know very much about the market or the companies," she admitted, "but it's government policy that's giving us the profit, which is basically like a free lunch. I would be an idiot not to buy. I only wish I had more money."

Like Zuo, many new account owners are from the post-1990 generation.

"All my classmates and friends are suddenly talking about the stock market as if they were investment bankers," says Felix Wang, a junior at Shanghai University. "You are out of the trend if you haven't made some money from shares."

The China Household Finance Survey conducted by Southwestern University of Finance and Economics found that 2.3 percent of all new investors in the fourth quarter of 2014 were born after 1990, a small but noticeable new demographic trend.

"Many younger relatives and friends have asked me about how to open an account and whether there is a minimum investment required," says 34-year-old Yang Meihui, who works with a local brokerage. "Many of them know nothing about the market, not even the basics, like how to operate and trade, but they are already putting all their money in equities."

Looking back, Yang says she and her friends knew nothing about stocks nor had any interest in markets when she was their age. How times have changed!

Or have they? The history of stock markets is littered with example of market rallies that sucked more people in the longer they lasted. In the end, institutional investors and the super rich — the so-called "smart money" — grabbed profits and headed for the exits, leaving shell-shocked small investors counting their losses.

According to legendary investor and mutual fund pioneer John Templeton, the four most dangerous words in investing are "this time, it's different."

But that isn't how younger investors, who seem to shrug off the law of gravity, see it. For them, the market will just keep going up and up.

So it was with Shanghai University junior Wang. He opened a stock account in March, with about 10,000 yuan from pocket money and part-time jobs. Following the advice of more experienced classmates, he bought some Internet concept shares and made 1,000 yuan in a week.

"We started watching more serious news other than the celebrities or TV shows," he says. "We also started paying attention to what government leaders were saying."

Like Wang, Zuo and most of their peers, it's a simple strategy: just follow the trend and buy whatever is recommended on TV or is hot in market talk, such as stocks that might benefit from President Xi Jinping's "One Belt One Road" initiative to expand infrastructure spending.

The young investors say they aren't afraid of market downturns. Then again, few of them have ever experienced that sinking feeling.

The first week of May was a wake-up call for some. The Shanghai market plunged 8 percent in three trading days. Some individual investors, who watched as their paper profits evaporated, took fright and cashed in shares at a loss. But some younger investors bravely hung on.

"When the price dropped, it was time to buy more shares," Zuo said in early May. "Otherwise I will never get the chance to make my money back. I have to keep marching, marching and marching forward!"

She might be wise to heed another remark by Templeton: "Bull markets are born on pessimism, grow on skepticism, mature on optimism and die on euphoria."

Generations of investors

YANG Wan, 64

Retired factory worker, 22 years in the stock market

"I have been very cautious in the past eight months, since the market started going up. My grandchildren, who are also trading shares now, always complain that I'm too cautious and have missed a lot of good opportunities to make money. They just keep buying, whether it's on the rise or it's falling. And they won't listen to my suggestions. Sometimes I feel they are not investing, but more like gambling. But it's their own money, so it's their choice."

Zou Renchun, 48

Manager at a US company, 8 years in the stock market

"I was hit hard last time when the Shanghai index dropped from 6,000 to 2,000. I started trading quite late, when it was already around 5,000, so I didn't make much money before it suddenly just collapsed. This time, I don't want to miss it. I also loaned some money to my 21-year-old son to make his own investments. It's not about how much money he can make. I think it will be a good experience that trains his ability to face ups and downs. He's a bit too bold in his investments, but he's young and brave, so that's not necessarily bad. He has gotten a higher return so far than I have."

Rindy Yang, 35

Public relations specialist, eight months in the stock market

"A lot of my younger colleagues, those in early 20s, are suddenly all talking about the stock market. They are more laid back about investment than I am. I really don't want to lose any money, but my younger colleagues don't even think about losing. They only think about earning more."

Matt Pan, 20

University junior, three months in the stock market

"I opened the account just after the Chinese New Year, with the money from my red envelopes. It's the first time that I have become quite fanatic about anything. I watch the analysts on finance news every evening, and I'm always on my stock market app to watch prices. I do some transactions almost every day, though many older relatives told me it's better not to trade too frequently. It has been a very interesting experience and also good training for making bigger investment once I start working. Nowadays, everyone has some investments. You can't expect to make a living just from your full-time job."
 
This guy shorted his own shares before the drop. This can only be done if he knew the drop was coming, or he was incredibly lucky, and I tend to prefer the first explanation
 
China to achieve minimum wage growth target
May 28, 2015

China is expected to achieve its average annual minimum wage growth target of 13 percent for the five-year period ending in 2015, experts said on Thursday.

Nineteen regions in Chinese mainland increased their minimum wage at an average rate of 14.1 percent in 2014, the Ministry of Human Resources and Social Security said on Thursday.

The growth pace is faster than the planned annual average growth rate, but slower than the previous three years, said the ministry in a statement posted on its official website.

In China, where city and provincial governments set minimum wage standards, 27 regions raised the minimum wage by an average rate of 17 percent in 2013, while minimum wage hikes in 25 regions surpassed 20 percent on average in 2011 and 2012.

Last year, Shanghai registered both the highest statutory minimum monthly wage of 1,820 yuan (about 297 U.S. dollars) and the highest hourly rate of 17 yuan, the statement said.

"Although the annual minimum wage growth slowed, the rate is considered high given that inflation-adjusted growth still outpaced GDP expansion," said Zhou Tianyong, professor with the Party School of the Central Committee of the CPC.

China's economy grew 7.4 percent in 2014, the weakest annual expansion in 24 years, while the consumer price index (CPI), the main gauge of inflation, rose 2 percent year on year.

It is quite normal that the minimum wage growth rate downgraded after the economic slowdown and commodity price falls, said Su Hainan, deputy head of the China Association for Labor Studies.

"The above-20-percent growth pace could not last forever," Su added.

Zheng Bingwen, chief of the World Social Security Studies Center at CASS, believes the increase in minimum wage will generate immediate benefits for the lowest-paid workers.

Data provided by the National Bureau of Statistics also showed that the pay of Chinese urban workers grew at a slower pace last year.

The average annual income of urban employees in the public sector rose by 9.4 percent year on year to 56,339 yuan, a growth rate 0.7 percentage points lower than in 2013.

Income of private sector employees surged by 11.3 percent to an annual average of 36,390 yuan, with the growth rate 2.5 percentage points lower when compared with 2013.

Income growth in recent years can be considered "compensatory," given that Chinese workers' salary growth has been less than the rate of GDP growth for many years, said Zheng Gongcheng, head of the Social Security Research Center affiliated with the Renmin University of China.

China's Duzhe Publishing Group Seeks $81m in Shanghai Listing
2015-05-28
duzhe1111.jpg


Duzhe Publishing & Media Co Ltd will be listed on the Shanghai Stock Exchange to raise 504 million yuan or 81 million U.S. dollars. [Photo: CFP]

The publisher of China's most popular magazine The Duzhe also known as Readers, is to be listed on the Shanghai Stock Exchange.

Duzhe Publishing & Media Corporation is looking to raise over 500 million yuan or 81 million U.S. dollars in the listing.

The money will be used to develop its magazine titles, digital publishing projects and book publishing operations.

The lead underwriter is China Dragon Securities, which like Duzhe is based in Lanzhou, the capital of Gansu province.

The Duzhe is a bimonthly magazine and is known as the Chinese version of Reader's Digest.

Its sales revenue declined about nine percent between 2012 and 2014.

Despite the dropping sales, analysts are upbeat on its flotation prospects.
 
China to achieve minimum wage growth target
May 28, 2015

China is expected to achieve its average annual minimum wage growth target of 13 percent for the five-year period ending in 2015, experts said on Thursday.

Nineteen regions in Chinese mainland increased their minimum wage at an average rate of 14.1 percent in 2014, the Ministry of Human Resources and Social Security said on Thursday.

The growth pace is faster than the planned annual average growth rate, but slower than the previous three years, said the ministry in a statement posted on its official website.

In China, where city and provincial governments set minimum wage standards, 27 regions raised the minimum wage by an average rate of 17 percent in 2013, while minimum wage hikes in 25 regions surpassed 20 percent on average in 2011 and 2012.

Last year, Shanghai registered both the highest statutory minimum monthly wage of 1,820 yuan (about 297 U.S. dollars) and the highest hourly rate of 17 yuan, the statement said.

"Although the annual minimum wage growth slowed, the rate is considered high given that inflation-adjusted growth still outpaced GDP expansion," said Zhou Tianyong, professor with the Party School of the Central Committee of the CPC.

China's economy grew 7.4 percent in 2014, the weakest annual expansion in 24 years, while the consumer price index (CPI), the main gauge of inflation, rose 2 percent year on year.

It is quite normal that the minimum wage growth rate downgraded after the economic slowdown and commodity price falls, said Su Hainan, deputy head of the China Association for Labor Studies.

"The above-20-percent growth pace could not last forever," Su added.

Zheng Bingwen, chief of the World Social Security Studies Center at CASS, believes the increase in minimum wage will generate immediate benefits for the lowest-paid workers.

Data provided by the National Bureau of Statistics also showed that the pay of Chinese urban workers grew at a slower pace last year.

The average annual income of urban employees in the public sector rose by 9.4 percent year on year to 56,339 yuan, a growth rate 0.7 percentage points lower than in 2013.

Income of private sector employees surged by 11.3 percent to an annual average of 36,390 yuan, with the growth rate 2.5 percentage points lower when compared with 2013.

Income growth in recent years can be considered "compensatory," given that Chinese workers' salary growth has been less than the rate of GDP growth for many years, said Zheng Gongcheng, head of the Social Security Research Center affiliated with the Renmin University of China.

China's Duzhe Publishing Group Seeks $81m in Shanghai Listing
2015-05-28
duzhe1111.jpg


Duzhe Publishing & Media Co Ltd will be listed on the Shanghai Stock Exchange to raise 504 million yuan or 81 million U.S. dollars. [Photo: CFP]

The publisher of China's most popular magazine The Duzhe also known as Readers, is to be listed on the Shanghai Stock Exchange.

Duzhe Publishing & Media Corporation is looking to raise over 500 million yuan or 81 million U.S. dollars in the listing.

The money will be used to develop its magazine titles, digital publishing projects and book publishing operations.

The lead underwriter is China Dragon Securities, which like Duzhe is based in Lanzhou, the capital of Gansu province.

The Duzhe is a bimonthly magazine and is known as the Chinese version of Reader's Digest.

Its sales revenue declined about nine percent between 2012 and 2014.

Despite the dropping sales, analysts are upbeat on its flotation prospects.
Duzhe was my friend in school.
 
Fishing for fortune: The young dive into stocks
Shanghai Daily, May 28, 2015

"Risk," Warren Buffett once famously observed, "comes from not knowing what you are doing." In China's current bull market frenzy, it's not hard to find young people jumping on a bandwagon without knowing where it's going.

People like Akira Zuo, 25.

She's planning to get married by the end of this year and decided the surging stock market would be a good place to earn some extra money before settling down to family life.

Why not? The Shanghai Composite Index has almost doubled in the past six months to nearly 5,000. Everyone is talking about it. The "greed and fear" factors that traditionally drive stock markets have given way to greed alone.

Zuo's future mother-in-law, who also dabbles in the stock market, is worried.

"She thinks she's brave, but actually she is young, inexperienced and blind," says the prospective in-law. "She hasn't tasted the horror of a stock market like we who are older have. When the bear hits, she will be completely shocked. I hope she doesn't lose all her savings."

In April, more than 4 million new stock accounts were opened in just one week, compared with less than 100,000 in April 2014.

For the older generation, investment in the stock market has been a primary way to chase higher yields than the returns they can get from interest-bearing bank deposits.

For the young, investment is often just the current fad, fed by a naive belief that the bottom will never fall out of a rising market.

"Why should I be afraid?" Zuo told Shanghai Daily at the end of April, when she collected profit of about 50 percent on an initial investment of 100,000 yuan (US$16,122) — all her savings from three years of work.

"I don't know very much about the market or the companies," she admitted, "but it's government policy that's giving us the profit, which is basically like a free lunch. I would be an idiot not to buy. I only wish I had more money."

Like Zuo, many new account owners are from the post-1990 generation.

"All my classmates and friends are suddenly talking about the stock market as if they were investment bankers," says Felix Wang, a junior at Shanghai University. "You are out of the trend if you haven't made some money from shares."

The China Household Finance Survey conducted by Southwestern University of Finance and Economics found that 2.3 percent of all new investors in the fourth quarter of 2014 were born after 1990, a small but noticeable new demographic trend.

"Many younger relatives and friends have asked me about how to open an account and whether there is a minimum investment required," says 34-year-old Yang Meihui, who works with a local brokerage. "Many of them know nothing about the market, not even the basics, like how to operate and trade, but they are already putting all their money in equities."

Looking back, Yang says she and her friends knew nothing about stocks nor had any interest in markets when she was their age. How times have changed!

Or have they? The history of stock markets is littered with example of market rallies that sucked more people in the longer they lasted. In the end, institutional investors and the super rich — the so-called "smart money" — grabbed profits and headed for the exits, leaving shell-shocked small investors counting their losses.

According to legendary investor and mutual fund pioneer John Templeton, the four most dangerous words in investing are "this time, it's different."

But that isn't how younger investors, who seem to shrug off the law of gravity, see it. For them, the market will just keep going up and up.

So it was with Shanghai University junior Wang. He opened a stock account in March, with about 10,000 yuan from pocket money and part-time jobs. Following the advice of more experienced classmates, he bought some Internet concept shares and made 1,000 yuan in a week.

"We started watching more serious news other than the celebrities or TV shows," he says. "We also started paying attention to what government leaders were saying."

Like Wang, Zuo and most of their peers, it's a simple strategy: just follow the trend and buy whatever is recommended on TV or is hot in market talk, such as stocks that might benefit from President Xi Jinping's "One Belt One Road" initiative to expand infrastructure spending.

The young investors say they aren't afraid of market downturns. Then again, few of them have ever experienced that sinking feeling.

The first week of May was a wake-up call for some. The Shanghai market plunged 8 percent in three trading days. Some individual investors, who watched as their paper profits evaporated, took fright and cashed in shares at a loss. But some younger investors bravely hung on.

"When the price dropped, it was time to buy more shares," Zuo said in early May. "Otherwise I will never get the chance to make my money back. I have to keep marching, marching and marching forward!"

She might be wise to heed another remark by Templeton: "Bull markets are born on pessimism, grow on skepticism, mature on optimism and die on euphoria."

Generations of investors

YANG Wan, 64

Retired factory worker, 22 years in the stock market

"I have been very cautious in the past eight months, since the market started going up. My grandchildren, who are also trading shares now, always complain that I'm too cautious and have missed a lot of good opportunities to make money. They just keep buying, whether it's on the rise or it's falling. And they won't listen to my suggestions. Sometimes I feel they are not investing, but more like gambling. But it's their own money, so it's their choice."

Zou Renchun, 48

Manager at a US company, 8 years in the stock market

"I was hit hard last time when the Shanghai index dropped from 6,000 to 2,000. I started trading quite late, when it was already around 5,000, so I didn't make much money before it suddenly just collapsed. This time, I don't want to miss it. I also loaned some money to my 21-year-old son to make his own investments. It's not about how much money he can make. I think it will be a good experience that trains his ability to face ups and downs. He's a bit too bold in his investments, but he's young and brave, so that's not necessarily bad. He has gotten a higher return so far than I have."

Rindy Yang, 35

Public relations specialist, eight months in the stock market

"A lot of my younger colleagues, those in early 20s, are suddenly all talking about the stock market. They are more laid back about investment than I am. I really don't want to lose any money, but my younger colleagues don't even think about losing. They only think about earning more."

Matt Pan, 20

University junior, three months in the stock market

"I opened the account just after the Chinese New Year, with the money from my red envelopes. It's the first time that I have become quite fanatic about anything. I watch the analysts on finance news every evening, and I'm always on my stock market app to watch prices. I do some transactions almost every day, though many older relatives told me it's better not to trade too frequently. It has been a very interesting experience and also good training for making bigger investment once I start working. Nowadays, everyone has some investments. You can't expect to make a living just from your full-time job."

That is sad. Putting money into something you know nothing about is unwise. The sharks are licking their teeth now...
 
Really? So it is/was a family company?



I guess that's a trend that will find its normal course. People are just exploring new waters.

I'm sure you heard stories of people from HK who committed suicide after 98 crisis due to stock market tanking. Oh well, it's not my money but the stock market by large is primarily a big casino :)
 

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