govt rolls out Electric Vehicle policy

[313ghazi]

so
what is the practical implication of this?
will our current Electricity Capacity be able to sustain this?
when will the common man be able to purchase an EV?

Electric bikes should be step 1. Cheaper than cars, usually used for shorter journeys, easy to charge indoors.

 

[nahtanbob]

if its expensive for the middle class in USA
then it going to be extremely expensive for the upper middle class here......
I see no point in this policy then

the prices are falling ... it is definitely the future
no harm in trying to figure out the future

 

[313ghazi]

The cost of charging electric vehicles is much much cheaper than filling tanks of diesel.

You can pick one up for under a lac rupees and prices will come down further under local assembly and manufacture.

Electric rickshaws is also a market we can utilise today. Electric buses are in use around the world.

Imagine if every bike, bus and rickshaw in your city was electric? Consider the impact on air quality.

The tech is here already, we need to forge ahead.

 

[The Accountant]

You can engineers EVs on the cheap. Half of Liaoning drives mini-EVs that cost around $5k-$7k.

Electric equivalent of 150CC bike can cost around $500-$700.

And yes, EVs require less engineering, and are easier to manufacture. For as long as you can do bodywork, everything else is very easy.

I think the real challenge is power storage battery and not the electric motor. Getting a small battery that can give enough power to the motor that motor vehicle can run at desired acceleration and speeds and with storage enough to cover 300 kms range is the real challenge.

 

[313ghazi]

I think the real challenge is power storage battery and not the electric motor. Getting a small battery that can give enough power to the motor that motor vehicle can run at desired acceleration and speeds and with storage enough to cover 300 kms range is the real challenge.

The thing is though, how many of your journeys are over 300km. I reckon for the vast majority of people a vehicle that does even as little as 100km per charge would suffice.

The best bikes out there right now offer a 200km range and they'll recharge upto 80% in half an hour.

It's not ideal - but we have to pay a price to save our environment.

 

[VCheng]

The thing is though, how many of your journeys are over 300km. I reckon for the vast majority of people a vehicle that does even as little as 100km per charge would suffice.

The best bikes out there right now offer a 200km range and they'll recharge upto 80% in half an hour.

It's not ideal - but we have to pay a price to save our environment.

Some points to ponder:

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2019/11/honda-ceo-evs-will-not-be-mainstream/

Honda CEO: ‘EVs Will Not Be Mainstream’

The tide of praise and promise that swept in at the impetus of the 21st century to support electric vehicles is receding. The same goes for the entire concept of autonomy — though this has been pulling back faster than Nicholas Cage’s hairline, and with only a fraction of its grace. Over the last few years, the number of voices shrugging off advanced technologies has increased, creating a rift between cynics and believers.

While largely disinterested in the ramifications of the technology, automakers have also tamped down their previously bloated expectations. Those pushing alternative powertrains and vehicular autonomy are becoming more biased, but so too are the companies that never bothered chasing them quite so zealously in the first place.

Honda CEO Takahiro Hachigo says his company still has serious doubts as to just how lucrative electrification and mobility projects will actually be, suggesting the costs and complications of such technologies probably aren’t worth pursuing as a primary objective.

“The hurdles to battery electric vehicles and complete autonomous driving are still quite high,” Hachigo told Automotive News in an interview at Honda’s global headquarters last month. “I don’t know whether other manufacturers are becoming too optimistic or not, but apparently the approach in going about these regulations differs from one company to another.”

However, it would be wrong to discount Honda as a company without at least a few logs burning in the opposite campfire. Honda was the first automaker to mainstream hybrid technology, thanks to the Insight, and has put sizable investments behind both electrification and various mobility projects. We grumbled earlier this year when the automaker previewed “Dream Drive” as a connected user experience ready to be loaded up with microtransactions and partnered marketing opportunities. Honda is not squeaky clean, nor is it wholly avoiding electric and autonomous vehicles — or their associated trappings. Few car companies can claim otherwise these days.

The business does have less-extreme ambitions than some other manufacturers, however. Its battery-powered Honda E perked up our interested but isn’t expected to become a global product. Instead, it’s being shopped around in markets with more demanding emission regulations — likely existing as little more than a well-designed compliance vehicle.

The brand also wants to draw two-thirds of its global sales from electrified vehicles by 2030 and dump a glut of EVs into the European market in a few years, though the automaker has admitted the brunt of those sales will probably come from hybrid models, not battery-electric cars.

“I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery vehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally,” Hachigo said. “There are issues with infrastructure and hardware.”

“There are different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So, it’s a must to continue R&D,” he continued. “But I don’t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.”

Meanwhile, autonomous projects have fallen by the wayside. Honda plans on continuing development efforts but wants to focus more on advanced driving aids and mobility projects with more proven commercial value.

In autonomous driving, Honda announced plans in 2017 for lane-changing autonomous highway driving by 2020 and Level 4 self-driving by 2025. But it has offered few updates since.

Indeed, Hachigo said last month the carmaker has no horizon for introducing Level 3 automated driving, which allows the car to drive itself under certain circumstances as long as the driver is ready to take over.

“I don’t have any timeline or vehicle model in mind,” the Honda boss said.

Instead, the company will continue adding functionality to its Honda Sensing system, a suite of safety features such as lane-keep assist, blind-spot warning and automatic emergency braking.

“We have established these technologies, but at the same time, you have to think about what the social demand is and what legal environment we have to operate in,” said Hachigo. “Now is the time for us to ponder how we can introduce these services to the market.”

Honda is also reportedly disinterested in aligning itself with other manufacturers to endure the high-cost of developing these new technologies. It plans to pursue limited partnerships, claiming a corporate merger would be out of the question — despite that being a current trend among the industries largest players.

“We do not have any intention of having a capital tie-up,” the CEO explained. “The reason is, once we have a capital tie-up, that other party will have some voice in our management, which means in some instances, we may not be able to move in the direction we want."

 

[Nilgiri]

Some points to ponder:

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2019/11/honda-ceo-evs-will-not-be-mainstream/

Honda CEO: ‘EVs Will Not Be Mainstream’

The tide of praise and promise that swept in at the impetus of the 21st century to support electric vehicles is receding. The same goes for the entire concept of autonomy — though this has been pulling back faster than Nicholas Cage’s hairline, and with only a fraction of its grace. Over the last few years, the number of voices shrugging off advanced technologies has increased, creating a rift between cynics and believers.

While largely disinterested in the ramifications of the technology, automakers have also tamped down their previously bloated expectations. Those pushing alternative powertrains and vehicular autonomy are becoming more biased, but so too are the companies that never bothered chasing them quite so zealously in the first place.

Honda CEO Takahiro Hachigo says his company still has serious doubts as to just how lucrative electrification and mobility projects will actually be, suggesting the costs and complications of such technologies probably aren’t worth pursuing as a primary objective.

“The hurdles to battery electric vehicles and complete autonomous driving are still quite high,” Hachigo told Automotive News in an interview at Honda’s global headquarters last month. “I don’t know whether other manufacturers are becoming too optimistic or not, but apparently the approach in going about these regulations differs from one company to another.”

However, it would be wrong to discount Honda as a company without at least a few logs burning in the opposite campfire. Honda was the first automaker to mainstream hybrid technology, thanks to the Insight, and has put sizable investments behind both electrification and various mobility projects. We grumbled earlier this year when the automaker previewed “Dream Drive” as a connected user experience ready to be loaded up with microtransactions and partnered marketing opportunities. Honda is not squeaky clean, nor is it wholly avoiding electric and autonomous vehicles — or their associated trappings. Few car companies can claim otherwise these days.

The business does have less-extreme ambitions than some other manufacturers, however. Its battery-powered Honda E perked up our interested but isn’t expected to become a global product. Instead, it’s being shopped around in markets with more demanding emission regulations — likely existing as little more than a well-designed compliance vehicle.

The brand also wants to draw two-thirds of its global sales from electrified vehicles by 2030 and dump a glut of EVs into the European market in a few years, though the automaker has admitted the brunt of those sales will probably come from hybrid models, not battery-electric cars.

“I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery vehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally,” Hachigo said. “There are issues with infrastructure and hardware.”

“There are different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So, it’s a must to continue R&D,” he continued. “But I don’t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.”

Meanwhile, autonomous projects have fallen by the wayside. Honda plans on continuing development efforts but wants to focus more on advanced driving aids and mobility projects with more proven commercial value.

In autonomous driving, Honda announced plans in 2017 for lane-changing autonomous highway driving by 2020 and Level 4 self-driving by 2025. But it has offered few updates since.

Indeed, Hachigo said last month the carmaker has no horizon for introducing Level 3 automated driving, which allows the car to drive itself under certain circumstances as long as the driver is ready to take over.

“I don’t have any timeline or vehicle model in mind,” the Honda boss said.

Instead, the company will continue adding functionality to its Honda Sensing system, a suite of safety features such as lane-keep assist, blind-spot warning and automatic emergency braking.

“We have established these technologies, but at the same time, you have to think about what the social demand is and what legal environment we have to operate in,” said Hachigo. “Now is the time for us to ponder how we can introduce these services to the market.”

Honda is also reportedly disinterested in aligning itself with other manufacturers to endure the high-cost of developing these new technologies. It plans to pursue limited partnerships, claiming a corporate merger would be out of the question — despite that being a current trend among the industries largest players.

“We do not have any intention of having a capital tie-up,” the CEO explained. “The reason is, once we have a capital tie-up, that other party will have some voice in our management, which means in some instances, we may not be able to move in the direction we want."

I feel Honda is onto something here. If you look at where their research is (and I stumbled across a few somewhat randomly and dug back to source and saw some interesting things there), they have decided to fund further frontier research into the nano-world rather than supply chain/optimisation stuff of existing battery tech (that most seem to be commiting to, esp with carbon tax environments increasingly imposed by govt with climate alarmism - while ignoring the drastic environment costs outsourced elsewhere by the current and developing battery tech).

They are (wisely) keeping their powder dry for when the energy densities become much better and they get bigger stake in the IPR related to it. Details sometimes matter a lot when you look at research-scape...some countries like to flaunt raw numbers of papers/IPR filings like sheep....but sometimes you see an older wiser lion's pawprint.

 

[Jf Thunder]

Electric bikes should be step 1. Cheaper than cars, usually used for shorter journeys, easy to charge indoors.

indeed
but we still dont know what the policy itself is?
what advantage will the common man get?
what will be the results of this policy?

 

[VCheng]

(that most seem to be commiting to, esp with carbon tax environments increasingly imposed by govt with climate alarmism

Bingo. Governments are giving tax breaks to pander to climate alarmism to create a tilted field in favor of electric cars, that is all. This will never live up to the hype, just as autonomy won't.

 

[The Accountant]

The thing is though, how many of your journeys are over 300km. I reckon for the vast majority of people a vehicle that does even as little as 100km per charge would suffice.

The best bikes out there right now offer a 200km range and they'll recharge upto 80% in half an hour.

It's not ideal - but we have to pay a price to save our environment.

Agreed, I was talking about ideal condition where people dont have to think about switching. My car and bike gives around 300 to 350 kms per tank so anything near that I will be switching happily without any second thought.

But you are right in terms of environment we should compromise on a little less

 

[Paul2]

I think the real challenge is power storage battery and not the electric motor. Getting a small battery that can give enough power to the motor that motor vehicle can run at desired acceleration and speeds and with storage enough to cover 300 kms range is the real challenge.

Do you think that anybody looking for a bike under $1000 will be travelling that much just for personal transportation? I'd say their portion will be in single digits.

A battery that will last for a 80km trip on a relatively light bike like most 150ccs are, will weight and cost less than a typical iron 150cc engine + accessories + tankage.

Cast iron block may only cost $10 with machining and other post-processing, but it will be accessories, and things like clutch, gearbox, injectors, sensors, valves, throttle body actuators, dynamo, and other electronics will be pushing the price close to $200. You can of course go for completely mechanical, carburated engine that will require maintenance every few months, and will have low power and very bad fuel economy, and that will slash the price by half, but even in Pakistan I saw people opting for more fancier 150ccs bikes.

2kwh battery pack costs just around $180-200 wholesale. And you just need a BLDC motor with simple controller for 48V. In total, a motive assembly for a "150cc analogue" will cost just about the same, but will be cheaper to assemble and you will have less worries about supply chain for parts.

Bikes for people doing actual cargo hauling or rickshaws are a different story though, they indeed need way more expensive hardware.

Honda CEO Takahiro Hachigo says his company still has serious doubts as to just how lucrative electrification and mobility projects will actually be, suggesting the costs and complications of such technologies probably aren’t worth pursuing as a primary objective.

What I can say, even before China started to ban petrol bikes, a lot of people were switching to EV bikes even if they were of lesser performance back then. Most people looking for a below $1000 vehicle are not looking at performance at all. They will drive anything that moves for that price.

For them, EVs look as a way more practical alternative to petrol bikes in that segment just for their zero maintenance requirements, and cheaper "fuel."

 

[VCheng]

What I can say, even before China started to ban petrol bikes, a lot of people were switching to EV bikes even if they were of lesser performance back then. Most people looking for a below $1000 are not looking at all at performance. They will drive anything that moves for that price.

For them, EVs look as a way more practical alternative to petrol bikes in that segment just for their zero maintenance requirements, and cheaper "fuel."

Electric power may work better for city bikes than for cars, given the greatly reduced energy demands imposed.

 

[313ghazi]

Some points to ponder:

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2019/11/honda-ceo-evs-will-not-be-mainstream/

Honda CEO: ‘EVs Will Not Be Mainstream’

The tide of praise and promise that swept in at the impetus of the 21st century to support electric vehicles is receding. The same goes for the entire concept of autonomy — though this has been pulling back faster than Nicholas Cage’s hairline, and with only a fraction of its grace. Over the last few years, the number of voices shrugging off advanced technologies has increased, creating a rift between cynics and believers.

While largely disinterested in the ramifications of the technology, automakers have also tamped down their previously bloated expectations. Those pushing alternative powertrains and vehicular autonomy are becoming more biased, but so too are the companies that never bothered chasing them quite so zealously in the first place.

Honda CEO Takahiro Hachigo says his company still has serious doubts as to just how lucrative electrification and mobility projects will actually be, suggesting the costs and complications of such technologies probably aren’t worth pursuing as a primary objective.

“The hurdles to battery electric vehicles and complete autonomous driving are still quite high,” Hachigo told Automotive News in an interview at Honda’s global headquarters last month. “I don’t know whether other manufacturers are becoming too optimistic or not, but apparently the approach in going about these regulations differs from one company to another.”

However, it would be wrong to discount Honda as a company without at least a few logs burning in the opposite campfire. Honda was the first automaker to mainstream hybrid technology, thanks to the Insight, and has put sizable investments behind both electrification and various mobility projects. We grumbled earlier this year when the automaker previewed “Dream Drive” as a connected user experience ready to be loaded up with microtransactions and partnered marketing opportunities. Honda is not squeaky clean, nor is it wholly avoiding electric and autonomous vehicles — or their associated trappings. Few car companies can claim otherwise these days.

The business does have less-extreme ambitions than some other manufacturers, however. Its battery-powered Honda E perked up our interested but isn’t expected to become a global product. Instead, it’s being shopped around in markets with more demanding emission regulations — likely existing as little more than a well-designed compliance vehicle.

The brand also wants to draw two-thirds of its global sales from electrified vehicles by 2030 and dump a glut of EVs into the European market in a few years, though the automaker has admitted the brunt of those sales will probably come from hybrid models, not battery-electric cars.

“I do not believe there will be a dramatic increase in demand for battery vehicles, and I believe this situation is true globally,” Hachigo said. “There are issues with infrastructure and hardware.”

“There are different regulations in different countries, and we have to abide by them. So, it’s a must to continue R&D,” he continued. “But I don’t believe it will become mainstream anytime soon.”

Meanwhile, autonomous projects have fallen by the wayside. Honda plans on continuing development efforts but wants to focus more on advanced driving aids and mobility projects with more proven commercial value.

In autonomous driving, Honda announced plans in 2017 for lane-changing autonomous highway driving by 2020 and Level 4 self-driving by 2025. But it has offered few updates since.

Indeed, Hachigo said last month the carmaker has no horizon for introducing Level 3 automated driving, which allows the car to drive itself under certain circumstances as long as the driver is ready to take over.

“I don’t have any timeline or vehicle model in mind,” the Honda boss said.

Instead, the company will continue adding functionality to its Honda Sensing system, a suite of safety features such as lane-keep assist, blind-spot warning and automatic emergency braking.

“We have established these technologies, but at the same time, you have to think about what the social demand is and what legal environment we have to operate in,” said Hachigo. “Now is the time for us to ponder how we can introduce these services to the market.”

Honda is also reportedly disinterested in aligning itself with other manufacturers to endure the high-cost of developing these new technologies. It plans to pursue limited partnerships, claiming a corporate merger would be out of the question — despite that being a current trend among the industries largest players.

“We do not have any intention of having a capital tie-up,” the CEO explained. “The reason is, once we have a capital tie-up, that other party will have some voice in our management, which means in some instances, we may not be able to move in the direction we want."

I feel Honda is onto something here. If you look at where their research is (and I stumbled across a few somewhat randomly and dug back to source and saw some interesting things there), they have decided to fund further frontier research into the nano-world rather than supply chain/optimisation stuff of existing battery tech (that most seem to be commiting to, esp with carbon tax environments increasingly imposed by govt with climate alarmism - while ignoring the drastic environment costs outsourced elsewhere by the current and developing battery tech).

They are (wisely) keeping their powder dry for when the energy densities become much better and they get bigger stake in the IPR related to it. Details sometimes matter a lot when you look at research-scape...some countries like to flaunt raw numbers of papers/IPR filings like sheep....but sometimes you see an older wiser lion's pawprint.

Can't help but think if this is all because Honda haven't taken the leap into the market like it's competitors.

I suspect in time we will see autonomous cars become common place, but I think we're maybe 20-30 years away from that. The tech is there, the consumer confidence isn't, the will to take the risk isn't.

Electric vehicles are the future. I don't see a future where the vast majority of the vehicles on our roads are not electric. At the same time though, i think the way we travel will/should change too.

We need an intense focus on cheap public transport. We also need to kill the commute. Why are office workers commuting daily? I think remote working should be the go-to unless it's not an option.

 

[VCheng]

Can't help but think if this is all because Honda haven't taken the leap into the market like it's competitors.

I suspect in time we will see autonomous cars become common place, but I think we're maybe 20-30 years away from that. The tech is there, the consumer confidence isn't, the will to take the risk isn't.

Electric vehicles are the future. I don't see a future where the vast majority of the vehicles on our roads are not electric. At the same time though, i think the way we travel will/should change too.

We need an intense focus on cheap public transport. We also need to kill the commute. Why are office workers commuting daily? I think remote working should be the go-to unless it's not an option.

It will become clearer once the present hype dies down.

 

[313ghazi]

It will become clearer once the present hype dies down.

Yeah, personally I think having two EV's parked on each driveway will be a sideway step at best. We need to think so much bigger, public transport needs to be seen in the same way security and healthcare and food security is. We still need to travel the world and be free, but we need to do cut out as much uneccasary travelling as we can. Getting your groceries delivered should be the norm, commuting for work should be the exception, the school run should be replaced with the school bus. The cycle lane should be just as important as any BRT project. Our offices, homes and shops should not be miles and miles apart.