Flypast during Qatar National Day Hints at Doha's Interest in Pakistani JF-17

[Ultima Thule]

Not professional nor senior but he has inside knowledge. Even @messiach and @Hodor are Full members but they have info

And @Hodor has relative or Friends on PAF and @messiach maam is working or being worked on defense industry, they are for far far more reliable than @airomerix which didn't gives us slight of hint what his sources

 

[Philip the Arab]

What do you guys think and what other countries outside of Azerbaijan do you see as potential users?

Definitely Egypt, I think you got your predictions wrong. Mirage 5 needs replacement for ground attack, Mirage 2000 needs replacement, and Alpha jet all need replacements. Simply put the aircraft purchased by Egypt recently don't make up for the number that is going to be lost by retiring them.

Mirage 5-75 units(6 trainers)
Mirage-2000-19 units(4 trainers)
Alpha jet-40 units(27 trainers)

I predict if Egypt does purchase JF-17 it will be something like 80 JF-17 Block II(or III) and 20 JF-17B.

 

[GriffinsRule]

One country that we can potentially sell to is Tunisia. They have no quarrels with anyone (seemingly) and operate 14 F-5s since early 80s that are due for retirement. They are hosting their first ever exhibition, IADE (International Aerospace & Defence Exhibition) and I really hope PAF/PAC is not too late to the party and takes the JF-17 there to market, not just to them but also other potential African and ME countries as well.

Definitely Egypt, I think you got your predictions wrong. Mirage 5 needs replacement for ground attack, Mirage 2000 needs replacement, and Alpha jet all need replacements. Simply put the aircraft purchased by Egypt recently don't make up for the number that is going to be lost by retiring them.

Mirage 5-75 units(6 trainers)
Mirage-2000-19 units(4 trainers)
Alpha jet-40 units(27 trainers)

I predict if Egypt does purchase JF-17 it will be something like 80 JF-17 Block II(or III) and 20 JF-17B.

Why do you think Mirage 2000 needs replacement? Alpha jets are trainers, not front line fighters.

 

[StormBreaker]

NO, because Block 1/2 has low ground clearance for carrying RAAD and he is no professional or senior member here which knows better than @airomerix

Not professional nor senior but he has inside knowledge. Even @messiach and @Hodor are Full members but they have info

And @Hodor has relative or Friends on PAF and @messiach maam is working or being worked on defense industry, they are for far far more reliable than @airomerix which didn't gives us slight of hint what his sources

You guys better stop mentioning specific members with sources, as you are inviting “extra-interested” cross border people on this forum to fetch some water for their thirst !!!

This is insanely childish!!!

One country that we can potentially sell to is Tunisia. They have no quarrels with anyone (seemingly) and operate 14 F-5s since early 80s that are due for retirement. They are hosting their first ever exhibition, IADE (International Aerospace & Defence Exhibition) and I really hope PAF/PAC is not too late to the party and takes the JF-17 there to market, not just to them but also other potential African and ME countries as well.


Why do you think Mirage 2000 needs replacement? Alpha jets are trainers, not front line fighters.

Last i recall, TuAF chief was in Pakistan in 2019/2018 ? Am i right?

 

[Philip the Arab]

Why do you think Mirage 2000 needs replacement? Alpha jets are trainers, not front line fighters.

Mirage-2000 needs replacement because its airframes are aging, and number of aircraft is not sufficient to warrant keeping them. Servicing costs are probably higher than what they are worth.

Yes, but JF-17B can be great replacement if operated jointly with JF-17 Block II(or III)

You also have to remember that Egypt trying to develop its defense industry recently and this could contribute to that. Egypt has already produced under license various aircraft, so setting up lines should be that hard.

 

[Ultima Thule]

You guys better stop mentioning specific members with sources, as you are inviting “extra-interested” cross border people on this forum to fetch some water for their thirst !!!

This is insanely childish!!!

ok, bro just try tell him my above both hodor sir and Messiech ma'am are more reliable then airomerix, because they always bring solid and technical discussion on PDF and their predictions are often will get true unlike airomerix

 

[GriffinsRule]

Mirage-2000 needs replacement because its airframes are aging, and number of aircraft is not sufficient to warrant keeping them. Servicing costs are probably higher than what they are worth.

Yes, but JF-17B can be great replacement if operated jointly with JF-17 Block II(or III)

I beg to differ, given that they are operating Mirage 5s still, and Mirage 2000 comparatively is a new aircraft, just as capable as their F-16s (if not more actually - BVR). Also doubt those air frames have aged any worse than our F-16s, as they were delivered to them from 1986-1988. They can also easily upgrade them with commonality with their new Rafales given their good ties with the French.
And this is still perhaps a bit early, but you will most likely see the UAE Mirage 2000s ending up in Egypt down the line too.

 

[hussain0216]

Selling weapons and big ticket defence items
Is 25% military needs and 75% politics

Whilst we have a product that can fulfill the military requirements of multiple countries, we have thus far 2 confirmed export customers Myanmar and Nigeria

Myanmar went through China
Pakistan has good relations with Nigeria including military

But we don't have the political or financial clout to push this product onto countries when you have competition from the likes of Russia or U.S, even China would seek to sell its other products such that it has full control over rather than push a JV


The JF17 will indeed pick up more customers, it's becoming a polished product but it will be a fight at every step with politics and ego and money involved

 

[StormBreaker]

ok, bro just try tell him my above both hodor sir and Messiech ma'am are more reliable then airomerix, because they always bring solid and technical discussion on PDF and their predictions are often will get true unlike airomerix

Last convo and probably was as well my first convo with airomarix on a thread in which he mentioned PAF going with Turks on TF-X alongside AZM which makes me doubt him At the moment. But again, please don’t try to dig into these matters as a token for respect of armed forces and their plannings. We all here can just make guesses and speculate with available open info but digging, I don’t promote.

Har cheez apne time pe achi lagti hai, that’s why you wont find me asking for such info from others. SUSPENSE IS GOOD !!!

 

[Philip the Arab]

I beg to differ, given that they are operating Mirage 5s still, and Mirage 2000 comparatively is a new aircraft, just as capable as their F-16s (if not more actually - BVR). Also doubt those air frames have aged any worse than our F-16s, as they were delivered to them from 1986-1988. They can also easily upgrade them with commonality with their new Rafales given their good ties with the French.
And this is still perhaps a bit early, but you will most likely see the UAE Mirage 2000s ending up in Egypt down the line too.

Why did Brazil retire their M 2000s?

(if not more actually - BVR)

F-16s have Sparrows but I agree SARH missiles aren't very good BVRAAMs today.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Why did Brazil retire their M 2000s?


F-16s have Sparrows but I agree SARH missiles aren't very good BVRAAMs today.

They bought 12 used Mirage 2000s in 2005 for just $67MM and stopped flying them in 2013 after the air frames had exceeded 10,000 hours.
They were always meant to be a temporary solution

 

[New World]

Russia, and Turkey don't want it. Russia can produce 100% Mig-29, and Su series.

Turkey is going to retire F-4s and they have only one mainline fighter jet. JF-17blk3 made in Turkey with Turkish Technologies will be a great deterrence against upcoming US/EU sanctions Turkey for its adventure in MENA region.

Russia can produce Migs and Su as many as they want but they don't have enough money to produce them and thats why they are decreasing the numbers of Su-35, SU-34, Su-57 etc. They have hundreds of old Migs and Sukhois to replace but they don't have money to replace them with expensive Mig-29/35s and Su-30/35s.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Last convo and probably was as well my first convo with airomarix on a thread in which he mentioned PAF going with Turks on TF-X alongside AZM which makes me doubt him At the moment. But again, please don’t try to dig into these matters as a token for respect of armed forces and their plannings. We all here can just make guesses and speculate with available open info but digging, I don’t promote.

Har cheez apne time pe achi lagti hai, that’s why you wont find me asking for such info from others. SUSPENSE IS GOOD !!!

I am just trying to say brother the seniors like hodor and ma'am messiech have far more accurate and better sources then airomerix because of their fields

 

[StormBreaker]

Selling weapons and big ticket defence items
Is 25% military needs and 75% politics

Whilst we have a product that can fulfill the military requirements of multiple countries, we have thus far 2 confirmed export customers Myanmar and Nigeria

Myanmar went through China
Pakistan has good relations with Nigeria including military

But we don't have the political or financial clout to push this product onto countries when you have competition from the likes of Russia or U.S, even China would seek to sell its other products such that it has full control over rather than push a JV


The JF17 will indeed pick up more customers, it's becoming a polished product but it will be a fight at every step with politics and ego and money involved

Rightly said, The plus point from China is that it gives an option of short/long term financing.

USA charges hefty amount, that’s for sure, for even trainer level jets/props.

Russia is more of a political player and suffers badluck due to its isolation.

China maintains good economic cooperation with even its biggest enemies, that’s why China can checkmate russian defence exports and give competition to USA by offering cheap products, but maturity and trust building of product and display/proof of reliability is important which China is really lacking , in easy terms, Bad Marketing.

Thunder Program has very high exports potential due to Chinese involvement as well as Pakistan involvement, Countries who are ally of Pakistan can come through Pak and China will only act as production assistance while reaping partnership profits and vice versa from Chinese Ally’s

 

[GriffinsRule]

Turkey is going to retire F-4s and they have only one mainline fighter jet. JF-17blk3 made in Turkey with Turkish Technologies will be a great deterrence against upcoming US/EU sanctions Turkey for its adventure in MENA region.

Russia can produce Migs and Su as many as they want but they don't have enough money to produce them and thats why they are decreasing the numbers of Su-35, SU-34, Su-57 etc. They have hundreds of old Migs and Sukhois to replace but they don't have money to replace them with expensive Mig-29/35s and Su-30/35s.

I didn't even bother to include Turkey as they are not buying JF-17 given then hundred of F-16s they have. For F-4 replacement, if its not going to be F-35, it will be Su-35