FGFA: 30% INDIAN IRON

[tallboy123]

So FGFA will be entirely different and lethal..
I wish HAL would concentrate on STEALTH rather that maneuverability and remove 3D thrust vector and use Flat shaped exhaust..

 

[GORKHALI]

sancho ,you think HAL AND SHUKOI GONNA FINALISE DESIGN for FGFA in 18months ? Am bit skeptic about ,i mean its heck of modification on orginal T50 design..

 

[sancho]

So FGFA will be entirely different and lethal..
I wish HAL would concentrate on STEALTH rather that maneuverability and remove 3D thrust vector and use Flat shaped exhaust..

Not only FGFA, but even Pak Fa will look differently from the T50 prototypes now.
HAL is not doing much in regard of the design, because they don't have the know how, Sukhoi is the leading part here. HAL will help in re-designing Pak Fa to FGFA, but their main involvement will be in regards of cockpit design and avionics integration.

 

[GORKHALI]

just look at the IAF ,they getting more demanding day by day, light weight ,new avonics,new engine ,2 seater etc etc but it might also effect total weapon carrying capacity even though they getting new engine.

 

[sancho]

sancho ,you think HAL AND SHUKOI GONNA FINALISE DESIGN for FGFA in 18months ? Am bit skeptic about ,i mean its heck of modification on orginal T50 design..

See, the Russians for sure have the final Pak Fa designs now and will do some modifications only when they find flaws during the flight tests of the T-50 prototypes. We did the same with LCA and now have the final design for the MK1.
FGFA will only have minimum design differents with Pak Fa, I expect more modification internally. The point of new engines imo does not mean western engines, but the real new AL 41 and not only the S117 engines, which are basically upgraded AL 31s.

 

[GORKHALI]

wait a min !! Then what your estimation on time period ?? I think its gonna take solid 2years

 

[GORKHALI]

btw you think new AL 41 will be ready for FGFA prototype ? Coz i learnt from somewhere that they going to complete new engine development by 2015 only.

 

[sancho]

wait a min !! Then what your estimation on time period ?? I think its gonna take solid 2years

Possible, but first we will see more T-50s prototypes, the 2nd will fly early 2011 and the 3rd is said to have more modifications.
Imo the key is still the AL 41 engine, which might need longer and cause delays.

 

[angeldemon_007]

the final version will have more modifications. Othe nozzles are more than likely, because it gets a new engine anyway and there are several discussions about the air intakes and radar blockers

True....but i read somewhere that Russians already rejected the square nozzle and have opted for circular. But i still agree that a lot of changes will be made in present prototype and there is still a slight possibility that Russians will switch back to square nozzle.

 

[sancho]

True....but i read somewhere that Russians already rejected the square nozzle and have opted for circular. But i still agree that a lot of changes will be made in present prototype and there is still a slight possibility that Russians will switch back to square nozzle.

It depends mainly on what kind of TVC Pak Fa and FGFA will get, because if they aim on 3D, they will use round nozzles with some angled shapings, like the F35. If 2D, or 2.5D like MKI is the aim, the nozzles could look like those of F22 again, although I do think that it's technically possible to have 3D TVC and flat nozzles.
The arrival of Chinas J20 could also have an impact on Pak Fa and FGFA, because the Russian have to take it as a potential threat too and as I said before, it is a mistake to underestimate their capabilities in the aero field.

 

[IND151]

i think al 41 engines will be ready till 2020.

The FGFA will use on her first flights 2 Saturn 117S engines (about 14.5 ton thrust each). The 117S is an advanced version of the AL-31F, but built with the experience gained in the AL-41F program. The AL-41F powered the Mikoyan MFI fighter (Mikoyan Project 1.44). Later versions of the PAK FA will use a completely new engine (17.5 ton thrust each), developed by NPO Saturn or FGUP MMPP Salyut.

Three Russian companies will compete to provide the engines with the final version to be delivered in 2015-2016.[23]

source wiki

 

[rockstarIN]

We will come to know the initial design changes in PAK FA when the second proto type scramble in early 2011.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Possible, but first we will see more T-50s prototypes, the 2nd will fly early 2011 and the 3rd is said to have more modifications.
Imo the key is still the AL 41 engine, which might need longer and cause delays.

The original AL 41 design started way back during the birth of the new Russia. It has been on testing by the Saturn company for nearly a decade. The thrust is said to be somewhere between 145 to 150KN range. The Sukhoi has its own flat nozzle design of aircraft tested way back in 2001-2. And the Tail seems to have been designed for flat nozzle approach only.

 

[sancho]

The original AL 41 design started way back during the birth of the new Russia. It has been on testing by the Saturn company for nearly a decade. The thrust is said to be somewhere between 145 to 150KN range. The Sukhoi has its own flat nozzle design of aircraft tested way back in 2001-2. And the Tail seems to have been designed for flat nozzle approach only.

The S117engine is often stated as AL 41A, but it is still just an upgraded AL 31 only. India prefers a real new developed engine and like some reports hints (I guess because we will produce it under licence in India again and they could be used for the MKI fleet with the MLU around 2020 also), that development causes some problems.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

The S117engine is often stated as AL 41A, but it is still just an upgraded AL 31 only. India prefers a real new developed engine and like some reports hints (I guess because we will produce it under licence in India again and they could be used for the MKI fleet with the MLU around 2020 also), that development causes some problems.

You are wrong about it. The AL 41 is a totally new engine and the F 117s was just a stopgap. The prototypes will fly with it and the first batch maybe. Because the AL 31 is heavier and is not capable of IR reductions.