Energy Crisis & Incompetence of the Government

[Clutch]

 

[Samlee]

Will Shah Sahib Tell Us That Did This Happen In The Past 120 Days

 

[SunilM]

Fantastic. Should he not be on the Economic council? Although, I disagree with his analysis on Solar Energy. it will still be more expensive than Coal. For developing country coal is the way to go initially.

 

[Imran Khan]

Fantastic. Should he not be on the Economic council? Although, I disagree with his analysis on Solar Energy. it will still be more expensive than Coal. For developing country coal is the way to go initially.

i will disagree with you sir for Pakistan nor solar not coal we can generate wind energy double then our need .

 

[SunilM]

i will disagree with you sir for Pakistan nor solar not coal we can generate wind energy double then our need .

It may.But its about the costs. I have done some work in these sectors. Also Imran, what people don't talk about are the kinds of loads. Base load (24/7) and peak load ( at noon and wind conditions). Cheapest Base Load is Coal anywhere in the world. Solar and wind are helpful during peak load. Solar and Wind will be added to base load only if its connected to storage ( batteries) which makes the whole project very expensive. There is graphene on the horizon but as of now with storage renewable become very expensive. You need to explore Thar Coal and Mix it with better quality coal and it will serve your purpose.

 

[Imran Khan]

It may.But its about the costs. I have done some work in these sectors. Also Imran, what people don't talk about are the kinds of loads. Base load (24/7) and peak load ( at noon and wind conditions). Cheapest Base Load is Coal anywhere in the world. Solar and wind are helpful during peak load. Solar and Wind will be added to base load only if its connected to storage ( batteries) which makes the whole project very expensive. There is graphene on the horizon but as of now with storage renewable become very expensive. You need to explore Thar Coal and Mix it with better quality coal and it will serve your purpose.

its must to be stored ? cant they just stop windmill sir ? i was thinking its easy to stop and start back windmill as per load .

 

[SunilM]

its must to be stored ? cant they just stop windmill sir ? i was thinking its easy to stop and start back windmill as per load .

Ok, let me give you an example of how the sector works. The generators have to produce a certain amount of electricity units everyday. For this what is created is a merit list cause its the Generators duty to provide 24/7 power. To control this whats created is a merit order everyday keeping in mind the demand. So each day is divided into 24 hours each and for each hour it is decided that some plants (base load + peak load) will work for some time in the day and for others there will be a drawdown order. And this is a dynamic situation which changes everyday. For solar it normally from 9 to 4. For wind, they only unfortunately give the minimum value for the merit order as they can't take any risk if electricity production is less due to wind conditions etc. Also due to its nature, there still may be variance in the power they supply to the grid and because of this, they need a special electricity grid for the network which is connected to the main grid. Which, btw, also increases the cost. So yes, they are not used for the whole day and are stopped. But therein lies the catch, they only serve as peak load and will never be able to substitute base load i.e 24/7 guaranteed load.

P.s. Btw, this mode of communication can not do justice to what I am trying to explain. So take it for whats it worth keeping the inherent limitations in mind.

 

[Imran Khan]

Ok, let me give you an example of how the sector works. The generators have to produce a certain amount of electricity units everyday. For this what is created is a merit list cause its the Generators duty to provide 24/7 power. To control this whats created is a merit order everyday keeping in mind the demand. So each day is divided into 24 hours each and for each hour it is decided that some plants (base load + peak load) will work for some time in the day and for others there will be a drawdown order. And this is a dynamic situation which changes everyday. For solar it normally from 9 to 4. For wind, they only unfortunately give the minimum value for the merit order as they can't take any risk if electricity production is less due to wind conditions etc. Also due to its nature, there still may be variance in the power they supply to the grid and because of this, they need a special electricity grid for the network which is connected to the main grid. Which, btw, also increases the cost. So yes, they are not used for the whole day and are stopped. But therein lies the catch, they only serve as peak load and will never be able to substitute base load i.e 24/7 guaranteed load.

P.s. Btw, this mode of communication can not do justice to what I am trying to explain. So take it for whats it worth keeping the inherent limitations in mind.

thanks boss .

 

[nahtanbob]

Ok, let me give you an example of how the sector works. The generators have to produce a certain amount of electricity units everyday. For this what is created is a merit list cause its the Generators duty to provide 24/7 power. To control this whats created is a merit order everyday keeping in mind the demand. So each day is divided into 24 hours each and for each hour it is decided that some plants (base load + peak load) will work for some time in the day and for others there will be a drawdown order. And this is a dynamic situation which changes everyday. For solar it normally from 9 to 4. For wind, they only unfortunately give the minimum value for the merit order as they can't take any risk if electricity production is less due to wind conditions etc. Also due to its nature, there still may be variance in the power they supply to the grid and because of this, they need a special electricity grid for the network which is connected to the main grid. Which, btw, also increases the cost. So yes, they are not used for the whole day and are stopped. But therein lies the catch, they only serve as peak load and will never be able to substitute base load i.e 24/7 guaranteed load.

P.s. Btw, this mode of communication can not do justice to what I am trying to explain. So take it for whats it worth keeping the inherent limitations in mind.

to summarize some of the points above

it is expensive to have a lot of peak generation capacity. in theory the cheapest costs are obtained from a constant base.

in practice the electricity demand changes from hour to hour. you are going to have some peak generation capacity.

you have to play a lot of games - charging more money for electricity consumed in peak hours as opposed to lean hours

i assume in a country like pakistan some heavy users of electricity have may to operate during lean hours of electricity demand to smoothen the demand curve during a day

another monkey wrench is that electricity demand might change from month to month

 

[SunilM]

thanks boss .