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Double standards against Pakistan by the US

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Pakistan is often accused by the US of harboring terrorists, double dealing with the international community, amongst many other things. The international media makes it sound as if Pakistan is the only one that does these things.

Is Pakistan solely responsible for these things? Let us analyze certain things. The creation of the mother of all terrorist groups, the Mujahideen, was a strategy formulated by Brzezinski & Jimmy Carter. Against the popular perception, the Mujahideen were NOT used a resistance force to protect the Afghans, but as a means of breaking up the Soviet Union. In fact, the Mujahideen were created by the US before the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. So it is futile to accuse Pakistan with the creation of the Mujahideen, as the Mujahideen were not a resistance movement for Afghanistan, but a means of breaking up the Soviet Union, something that didn't concern Pakistan but the US. Pakistan tagged along with the US & Saudi Arabia for training the Mujahideen, but the Mujahideen was the creation of the US.

The Soviets then tried to shore up the Afghan government against the Mujahideen, which then led to the Soviet-Afghan war, & the breakup of Soviet Union. The Mujahideen later off-shooted into Taliban, Hizb-e-Islami Gulbideen, Haqqani network, & other local groups in S.Asia, & 'Al-Qaeda' as a global terrorist network (the IMU/SIPR & LeT etc are all Al-Qaeda affiliates in Central & S.Asia respectively, as well as various other groups in the Middle East & Africa, such as the AQAP & AQIM/Al-Shabaab respectively).

After the Soviet Union broke up into Russia, the Al-Qaeda affiliates in Central Asia, such as the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (in Uzbekistan & Tajikistan), SIPR & the Russian Federation Republic of Chechnya (in Chechnya), as well as others have been using terrorism to overthrow &/or break away from the former Soviet territories (Uzbekistan, Tajikistan & others). In other words, all the problems faced in the region (South & Central Asia) today are the creation of the US, from 1979.

Iraq had practically no Al-Qaeda members in it when the US attacked it. After the US attacked Iraq, the Al-Qaeda members started entering Iraq. The same thing with Afghanistan. Before 9/11, there were few Al-Qaeda members, but when the US attacked Afghanistan, the Al-Qaeda & its affiliates from Central, South Asia & the Middle East started entering into Afghanistan. The US support for the Libyan rebels with strong ties to Al-Qaeda from Iraq & other places is well documented as well. In other words, it is very hypocritical to suggest that Pakistan harbors Islamic terrorism as per policy, when it was the creation of the US, & Pakistan (& the whole region) has to live by the monster created by the US. Similarly, with the rise of the Arab Spring in the Middle East (supported by the CIA), there is also the rise of the AQAP in Yemen & Saudi Arabia, & there is also a rise of the AQIM in North Africa (being inspired by the 'Al-Qaeda revolution' in Libya & Egypt). The US clearly uses Islamic militancy in the shape of Al-Qaeda & its affiliate groups to achieve its geopolitical, strategic objectives in the region.

The US has always accused Pakistan of double dealing in the WOT, but it is the US that is asking the UN to take off senior Taliban leaders (that are opposed to Pakistan, such as Faqir Mohammad) from their sanctions list. The US has refused to tackle the safe havens for Al-Qaeda & the Taliban in Kunar & Nuristan in Afghanistan where Fazalulah, Qari Zia Rehman, Hakeemullah Mehsud get refuge to attack Pakistan. The US is busy brokering peace deals with the Taliban, but asking Pakistan to attack them.

It is time that the world media stops generating propaganda against Pakistan.
 
So it is futile to accuse Pakistan with the creation of the Mujahideen, as the Mujahideen were not a resistance movement for Afghanistan, but a means of breaking up the Soviet Union, something that didn't concern Pakistan but the US. Pakistan tagged along with the US & Saudi Arabia for training the Mujahideen, but the Mujahideen was the creation of the US.


This is so strange. The ISI was actively involved in training and indoctrinating extremists and so called Mujahideen. Later they supported the Taliban and other extremists groups like LeT and HUJI to conduct terrorists strikes in India as well as supporting an insurgency in Kashmir.

Although ofcourse I agree with you that the US is also partially responsible for creating this mess of muslim extremism for its interests against the USSR. But the Pakistanis and Saudis are much more responsible because they were muslim countries and still supported such an agenda. Pakistan more so because it further used these muslim extremists as a political agenda to spread its influence in Afghanistan/C. ASia on one side and Kashmir and India on the other.

And by Pakistan I mean the ISI/PA establishment
 
This is so strange. The ISI was actively involved in training and indoctrinating extremists and so called Mujahideen. Later they supported the Taliban and other extremists groups like LeT and HUJI to conduct terrorists strikes in India as well as supporting an insurgency in Kashmir.

Again, the creation of the Mujahideen was not a strategy of Pakistan, but the US, to break up the Soviet Union. As opposed to popular perception, the Mujahideen were NOT an Afghan resistance movement, because the Mujahideen were created before the Soviet Union 'invaded' Afghanistan. The Madrassahs were used to indoctrinate people into Salafi ideology provided by Saudi Arabia, whereas the money to establish the Madrassahs & buy the arms was provided by the US. Pakistan tagged along with the US, training the Mujahideen to fight the Soviets. However, it was not Pakistan that created the Mujahideen, because the Mujahideen were not an Afghan resistance movement, but a means for the US to break up the Soviet Union. The US is also responsible for the rise of Al-Qaeda in the Middle East & North Africa today.

Although ofcourse I agree with you that the US is also partially responsible for creating this mess of muslim extremism for its interests against the USSR.

I suggest you read the note carefully, about how the US has not only used Al-Qaeda & Islamic militancy in South Asia, but also in Central Asia, the Middle East, & Africa to advance its strategic, geopolitical goals. Pakistan can't certainly be responsible for all those situations, right? Pakistan merely tagged along with the US. The Mujahideen were created by the Salafi Jihadi ideology provided by Saudi Arabia in Madrassahs, whereas the US came up with the idea of creating the Mujahideen (to break up the Soviets), provided money to establish Madrassahs, as well as arms to the Mujahideen. Pakistan was the co-ordinator in this whole thing, providing training to the Mujahideen, but not creating the Mujahideen.

Pakistan more so because it further used these muslim extremists as a political agenda to spread its influence in Afghanistan/C. ASia on one side and Kashmir and India on the other.

The LeT is an Al-Qaeda affiliate group. Almost all the groups existing today are an off-shoot of the Mujahideen in 1979, created by Brzezinski & Carter of course. The Mujahideen is the "mother" of most terrorist groups in South/Central Asia, Africa, Middle East today. Pakistan had not used Islamic extremism before the 90s, & stopped supporting the LeT after 2001, when Musharraf came into power.

India used the Northern Alliance to establish its influence in Afghanistan. India also used Tamil nationalism in Sri Lanka; training, funding & arming Tamil suicide bombers in training camps in Tamil Nadu for almost two decades (but that's a separate issue). So again, India is no saint either, & it would be best if we don't bring India, Kashmir or the LTTE here, & just concentrate on Pakistan & the US.
 
India used the Northern Alliance to establish its influence in Afghanistan. India also used Tamil nationalism in Sri Lanka; training, funding & arming Tamil suicide bombers in training camps in Tamil Nadu for almost two decades (but that's a separate issue). So, again, India is no saint, & it would be best if we don't bring India & Kashmir in here, & just concentrate on Pakistan & the US.

Don't talk shyt if you don't know the actual facts. Stick to defending the indefensible ( holy cow Pakistan and how the world is out to get it).
 
Don't talk shyt if you don't know the actual facts. Stick to defending the indefensible ( holy cow Pakistan and how the world is out to get it).

Just goes to show you have no clue what the hell is going on. I suggest you read up a little on the AQIM, AQAP, SIPR, IMU, Al-Shabaab before opening your mouth, because you sound like a total fool who has no f**king idea what the hell you're talking about.
 
Just goes to show you have no idea what the hell is going on. I suggest you read up a little on the AQIM, AQAP, SIPR, IMU, Al-Shabaab before opening your mouth, because you sound like a total fool who has no f**king idea what the hell you're talking about.

I had not replied to any of your inane defences about Pakistan and how it a saint that is painted as villain by the evil Zionist Western media. I was responding to your stupid,baseless,ridiculous allegation of India training suicide bombers in Tamil Nadu.

That being said,this line - "Pakistan had not used Islamic extremism before the 90s, & stopped supporting the LeT after 2001, when Musharraf came into power. - shows your knowledge of the issue as the Kashmiri Islamist insurgency started about 4 years before 1990 and the LeT/JeM were very well active even after 2001 with the Mumbai attacks happening in 2008.

So please don't insult my intelligence with your crystal ball utterances.I have no interest in your Afg-Pak discussions anymore as it is basically saying one line again and again with no regard for facts on the ground - Pakistan is a saint, US/SA/Afgh are all the real villains.
 
I was responding to your stupid,baseless,ridiculous allegation of India training suicide bombers in Tamil Nadu.

India funded Tamil (TELO, LTTE, PLOTE) terrorists, trained them in camps in TN, & also armed them.

That being said,this line - "Pakistan had not used Islamic extremism before the 90s, & stopped supporting the LeT after 2001, when Musharraf came into power. - shows your knowledge of the issue as the Kashmiri Islamist insurgency started about 4 years before 1990 and the LeT/JeM were very well active even after 2001.

The Kashmir militancy started in the 90s. The LeT was formed in 1990, & the JeM was formed in the late 90s. So you've been proven wrong again. Which specific Kashmiri Islamist insurgency are you talking about that started 4 years before 1990? The JKLF in the 80s was not an Islamist insurgency, but a Kashmiri nationalist movement, that was formed in Birmingham in 1977, & came to India & Pakistan in the 80s, wants to separate from Pakistan as well. So again, it goes to show you have no idea the nonsense you are sprouting here. Read up on this topic kid, & then come back on this thread.

The LeT/JeM are active post 2001, but not being supported by the Pakistani ISI.
 
kid you have just arrived here , dont talk as if you own the forum .
check his post he was replying to a statement made against India . a one which there are no source except in fertile imaginations.

I had not replied to any of your inane defences about Pakistan and how it a saint that is painted as villain by the evil Zionist Western media. I was responding to your stupid,baseless,ridiculous allegation of India training suicide bombers in Tamil Nadu.

Don't talk shyt if you don't know the actual facts. Stick to defending the indefensible ( holy cow Pakistan and how the world is out to get it).

A bit off-topic: India arming, training, funding Tamil terrorists against Sri Lanka:

They point to the military training and weapons India gave to the various freedom fighters, such as the EPRLF, EROS, LTTE, PLOTE and TELO, between 1983 and 1987.

Yes, India did aid the Tamil freedom fighters. Yes, they did train them including training in bomb making. Yes, they did supply them with weapons. The question is, "How much of an aid and to what purpose?" India aided the Tamil freedom fighters, not to help the Tamil struggle against Sinhala oppression but to destabilize Sri Lanka enough to convince the Sri Lankan Government that unless it gives in to certain Indian demands with respect to India's military and foreign policy objectives, India could see to it that the Sinhala-Tamil war continues and possibly Sri Lanka breaks up into two countries--a Sinhala nation and a Tamil nation.

Like a ripe fruit falling on one's lap, opportunity knocked in the form of the rise of Tamil freedom fighters in Sri Lanka in the late 1970s and early 1980s. India decided to arm and train the Tamil freedom fighters just enough to seriously threaten the Sri Lankan Army in the north and east of the island (the traditional Tamil home land that Tamils call "Tamil Eelam"). India never aided the freedom fighters enough to defeat the Sri Lankan army but just enough to bleed the army.

3. Air Drop over Jaffna

At this point we would like to point out a sub-drama India staged in the mid- 1980s. At that time much of Jaffna peninsula was under Tamil control (LTTE control). Sri Lankan Government had cut off much of the food supply to Jaffna as it is doing today to LTTE-controlled Vanni region. Saying that it would feed the people of Jaffna, India sent a plane with some food packets and dropped them into Jaffna. The reason for this display of air might was not to feed the starving people of Jaffna (the food packets would not even feed a few dozen people for a day while the Jaffna population was in the hundreds of thousands) but to send a forceful message to Sri Lanka that India could violate Sri Lankan air space with impunity and send Air Force planes, and by implication, that India would not hesitate to violate Sri Lankan sovereignty and send Indian troops into Sri Lanka if Sri Lanka did not accede to its demands/

Indian Foreign Policy, Sri Lanka, Tamil Eelam, 1987 Peace Accord Appendix 1
 
Mind your language if you don't want to become pink, this is not some Indian forum so mind your self or else we know how to tackle trolls like you :pakistan::pakistan::pakistan::pakistan::pakistan::pakistan::pakistan:

kid you have just arrived here , dont talk as if you own the forum .
check his post he was replying to a statement made against India . a one which there are no source except in fertile imaginations.
 
Again, the creation of the Mujahideen was not a strategy of Pakistan, but the US, to break up the Soviet Union. As opposed to common belief, the Mujahideen were NOT a resistance movement, because the Mujahideen were created before the Soviet Union 'invaded' Afghanistan. The Madrassahs were used to indoctrinate people into Salafi ideology provided by Saudi Arabia, whereas the money to establish the Madrassahs & buy the arms was provided by the US. Pakistan tagged along with the US, training the Mujahideen to fight the Soviets. However, it was not Pakistan that created the Mujahideen, because the Mujahideen were not an Afghan resistance movement, but a means for the US to break up the Soviet Union. The US is also responsible for the rise of Al-Qaeda in the Middle East & North Africa today. Pakistan was the co-ordinator in this whole thing, providing training to the Mujahideen, but not creating the Mujahideen.
You supported US against USSR, provided training to these Mujahideens. Couldn't you say NO to US? Could not you think that US is more powerful and can take care of itself, but what would happen to Pakistan? You should have made the choice of RIGHT but you chose WRONG.


India used the Northern Alliance to establish its influence in Afghanistan. India also used Tamil nationalism in Sri Lanka; training, funding & arming Tamil suicide bombers in training camps in Tamil Nadu for almost two decades (but that's a separate issue). So, again, India is no saint, & it would be best if we don't bring India & Kashmir in here, & just concentrate on Pakistan & the US.

And we paid the price and lost our PM, but Pakistan is paying much more than that. We do not blame anyone for it and we have taken care of ourselves. Couple of blasts here and there but then we are kind of stable.


Pakistan had not used Islamic extremism before the 90s, & stopped supporting the LeT after 2001, when Musharraf came into power.
The reason you did not support them after 2001 because you had no other choice because US had already given you the ultimatum.

Just wanna say that blaming US is not gonna help. US doesnt care whether you blame them or no, in fact no one does. You have to deal with what you have now.
 
Pakistan is often accused by the US of harboring terrorists, double dealing with the international community, amongst many other things. The international media makes it sound as if Pakistan is the only one that does these things.

Is Pakistan solely responsible for these things? Let us analyze certain things. The creation of the mother of all terrorist groups, the Mujahideen, was a strategy formulated by Brzezinski & Jimmy Carter. Against the popular perception, the Mujahideen were NOT used a resistance force, but as a means of breaking up the Soviet Union. In fact, the Mujahideen were created by the US before the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. So it is futile to accuse Pakistan with the creation of the Mujahideen, as the Mujahideen were not a resistance movement for Afghanistan, but a means of breaking up the Soviet Union, something that didn't concern Pakistan but the US. Pakistan tagged along with the US & Saudi Arabia for training the Mujahideen, but the Mujahideen was the creation of the US.

The Soviets then tried to shore up the Afghan government against the Mujahideen, which then led to the Soviet-Afghan war, & the breakup of the Soviet Union. The Mujahideen later off-shooted into Taliban, Hizb-e-Islami Gulbideen, Haqqani network, & other local groups in South Asia, & 'Al-Qaeda' as a global terrorist network (the IMU/SIPR & LeT etc are all Al-Qaeda affiliates in Central & South Asia respectively, as well as various other groups in the Middle East & Africa, such as the AQAP & AQIM respectively).

After the Soviet Union broke up into Russia, the Al-Qaeda affiliates in Central Asia, such as the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (in Uzbekistan & Tajikistan), SIPR & the Russian Federation Republic of Chechnya (in Chechnya), as well as others have been using terrorism to overthrow &/or break away from the former Soviet territories (Uzbekistan, Tajikistan & others). In other words, all the problems faced in the region (South & Central Asia) today are the creation of the US, from 1979.

Iraq had practically no Al-Qaeda members in it when the US attacked it. After the US attacked Iraq, the Al-Qaeda members started entering Iraq. The same thing with Afghanistan. Before 9/11, there were few Al-Qaeda members, but when the US attacked Afghanistan, the Al-Qaeda & its affiliates from Central, South Asia & the Middle East started entering into Afghanistan. The US support for the Libyan rebels with strong ties to Al-Qaeda from Iraq & other places is well documented as well. In other words, it is very hypocritical to suggest that Pakistan harbors Islamic terrorism as per policy, when it was the creation of the US, & Pakistan (& the whole region) has to live by the monster created by the US. Similarly, with the rise of the Arab Spring in the Middle East (supported by the CIA), there is also the rise of the AQAP in Yemen & Saudi Arabia, & there is also a rise of the AQIM in North Africa (being inspired by the 'Al-Qaeda revolution' in Libya & Egypt). The US clearly uses Islamic militancy in the shape of Al-Qaeda & its affiliate groups to achieve its geopolitical, strategic objectives in the region.

The US has always accused Pakistan of double dealing in the WOT, but it is the US that is asking the UN to take off senior Taliban leaders (that are opposed to Pakistan, such as Faqir Mohammad) from their sanctions list. The US has refused to tackle the safe havens for Al-Qaeda & the Taliban in Kunar & Nuristan in Afghanistan where Fazalulah, Qari Zia Rehman, Hakeemullah Mehsud get refuge to attack Pakistan. The US is busy brokering peace deals with the Taliban, but asking Pakistan to attack them.

It is time that the world media stops generating propaganda against Pakistan.

Bilal how exactly do you want them to treat boot lickers ?
 
1.There are many such dissertations in Pak media/forums. However, Pakistanis must realize that the US is an occupation force in her territory for all practical purpose. Calling Pakistan an ally,etc is sweet talk whose outcome Pakistanis have borne/are bearing in blood. How that came about is another story which will take you to Liaqat Ali Khan, etc.

2. Any discussion need to explore modes of getting rid of this invader/kafir or whatever you call them.

3. The other unfortunate phenomenon in Pakistan is the disregard and ignorance of the people by the establishment. This has happened in 1965, 1971, Kargil and more tragically, now. The establishment must listen to what the ordinary man says rather than term them "unporh/jahel/TTP/etc". Unless the people are taken into confidence external infiltration will continue.
 
1.There are many such dissertations in Pak media/forums. However, Pakistanis must realize that the US is an occupation force in her territory for all practical purpose. Calling Pakistan an ally,etc is sweet talk whose outcome Pakistanis have borne/are bearing in blood. How that came about is another story which will take you to Liaqat Ali Khan, etc.

2. Any discussion need to explore modes of getting rid of this invader/kafir or whatever you call them.

3. The other unfortunate phenomenon in Pakistan is the disregard and ignorance of the people by the establishment. This has happened in 1965, 1971, Kargil and more tragically, now. The establishment must listen to what the ordinary man says rather than term them "unporh/jahel/TTP/etc". Unless the people are taken into confidence external infiltration will continue.

very true, but then they have answer to this.... "Awam emotional hain" (Nation is emotional) and that consequently makes them rational... :lol:
 
very true, but then they have answer to this.... "Awam emotional hain" (Nation is emotional) and that consequently makes them rational... :lol:

This topic is not about Pakistan & how it deals with situations per say, but the horrible double standards & prejudices against it. So please, don't divert the topic of discussion. Appreciate it.
 
Offtopic:

They point to the military training and weapons India gave to the various freedom fighters, such as the EPRLF, EROS, LTTE, PLOTE and TELO, between 1983 and 1987.

Yes, India did aid the Tamil freedom fighters. Yes, they did train them including training in bomb making. Yes, they did supply them with weapons. The question is, "How much of an aid and to what purpose?" India aided the Tamil freedom fighters, not to help the Tamil struggle against Sinhala oppression but to destabilize Sri Lanka enough to convince the Sri Lankan Government that unless it gives in to certain Indian demands with respect to India's military and foreign policy objectives, India could see to it that the Sinhala-Tamil war continues and possibly Sri Lanka breaks up into two countries--a Sinhala nation and a Tamil nation.

Like a ripe fruit falling on one's lap, opportunity knocked in the form of the rise of Tamil freedom fighters in Sri Lanka in the late 1970s and early 1980s. India decided to arm and train the Tamil freedom fighters just enough to seriously threaten the Sri Lankan Army in the north and east of the island (the traditional Tamil home land that Tamils call "Tamil Eelam"). India never aided the freedom fighters enough to defeat the Sri Lankan army but just enough to bleed the army.

I could not find a single word which said "suicide bombers trained in TN" as was alleged by crystal gazer in the opening post. False claims as usual. Don't slander my state without credible/irrefutable proof again.


3. Air Drop over Jaffna

At this point we would like to point out a sub-drama India staged in the mid- 1980s. At that time much of Jaffna peninsula was under Tamil control (LTTE control). Sri Lankan Government had cut off much of the food supply to Jaffna as it is doing today to LTTE-controlled Vanni region. Saying that it would feed the people of Jaffna, India sent a plane with some food packets and dropped them into Jaffna. The reason for this display of air might was not to feed the starving people of Jaffna (the food packets would not even feed a few dozen people for a day while the Jaffna population was in the hundreds of thousands) but to send a forceful message to Sri Lanka that India could violate Sri Lankan air space with impunity and send Air Force planes, and by implication, that India would not hesitate to violate Sri Lankan sovereignty and send Indian troops into Sri Lanka if Sri Lanka did not accede to its demands/

Perhaps some one forgot another airdrop over Jaffna University which was used as a base by the Tigers

It was the commencement of Operation Pawan of IPKF which destroyed the LTTE hideouts in the Northern Sri Lanka and it was carried out as per Rajiv-Jeyawardene accords.

Half truths/Selective reading is more dangerous than even false claims.
 

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