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Containment of China & Security-Economic Imperatives for Pakistan

@Sinopakfriend I am utterly against increasing defence expenditure. The policy should to go to holding position and rely on nuclear deterance. Maximu invstment on CPEC projects and education is te needed badly for another decade and half.


I believe your tactical and strategic posture is enough to make big war impossible. Defence expenditure needs to remain the same...money is no problem. Creativity is.

And you would, indeed, need two decades of spending on infra, socio-economic and human capital development. You have lost about 5 decades of development.

The point here is not old fashioned conventional warfare but rather 5th generation hybrid warfare...from within and without.

Luck somehow favours you since this time you have China on your side...and too some extent Rus...because of their own security and planning in Eurasia. AF concerns all of us.

The eastern hegemon is trying to shortcut the route to great power status by joing the China containment party...Pak is the only deterent that keeps it nicely boxed where it belongs...Win-win for Sino-Pak Axis. So far that is...

As I said before..the global struggle for new world order is playing out in SCS/ECS...i.e. JP-SK-US-india-Australia and in Afro-Asian Ocean india-US....all these ventures are on containing China.

Why is indian regime so much against CPEC?

Nothing to with your GB area or Baloch people...everything to do with keeping China away from Afro-Asian Ocean and directly linking to ME. indian short cut to greatness strategy.


Right in middle of all this is your lands.
 
Dear MK,

Regarding your first contention...yes, Pak has no PR at all. None. Why don't your state realise its own worth. Truly sad state of affairs.

I am afraid..China has to come up with a graceful plan for Pak..since, I fail to see any movement at all by your good country.

As I said...things are interconnected from SCS to your Gawadar. Even the blinds can see this simple relationship.

We agree on the fact that Pak needs to develop a security framework which includes ME. US and China both will support such a Pak role. Certainly with Mr.Trump coming to charge.

What people do not realise that the leverage and influence China has today in Pak is much more than the US ever had. For a simple reason: Pak is critical to Chinese Security.

You dig into this and you will see this fact validated.

Hope your establishment doesn't only rely on bravery..but utilise mind over matter principle.

Otherwise, Nixxon's words might be prophetic.

Hi,

China needs to get out of euphoria as well---. It cannot depend on the pakistanis to do its bidding either---it needs to find someone honest who can stand up in pakistan and talk about the needs of pakistan.

China has taken it for granted that some pakistani will do it---not understanding that most pakistanis at the top of woefully illiterate in the matters of defense.

The problem with china is that it don't know how to manipulate this goodwill. This good will needs to be manipulated at the public level---you are in the hearts of the public---but you are not in the minds of the public.

What I mean is---that when a chinese engineer gets kidnapped---pakistanis are not asking for the blood of the kidnappers right away---.

2 years ago on sinodefens eforum someone asked me sarcastically are the chinese nuc subs availab;e to pakistan---and to that I replied---pakistan does not need them in the first place---but if it did---they would be.

The talk was about the J20's---where I stated---if that is what Pak needed---and if Pak knows how to address the issue---they will be available.
 
Hi,

China needs to get out of euphoria as well---. It cannot depend on the pakistanis to do its bidding either---it needs to find someone honest who can stand up in pakistan and talk about the needs of pakistan.

China has taken it for granted that some pakistani will do it---not understanding that most pakistanis at the top of woefully illiterate in the matters of defense.

The problem with china is that it don't know how to manipulate this goodwill. This good will needs to be manipulated at the public level---you are in the hearts of the public---but you are not in the minds of the public.

What I mean is---that when a chinese engineer gets kidnapped---pakistanis are not asking for the blood of the kidnappers right away---.

2 years ago on sinodefens eforum someone asked me sarcastically are the chinese nuc subs availab;e to pakistan---and to that I replied---pakistan does not need them in the first place---but if it did---they would be.

The talk was about the J20's---where I stated---if that is what Pak needed---and if Pak knows how to address the issue---they will be available.


I am working on paper...about leveraging Chinese soft power in and around mainland... might put here on PDF.

Once again your point is valid.

Chinese are learning to manage this paradox...trust me they will master it like no other.
 
I am working on paper...about leveraging Chinese soft power in and around mainland... might put here on PDF.

Once again your point is valid.

Chinese are learning to manage this paradox...trust me they will master it like no other.

Hi,

But this time---the time may not be on their side---. They have been caught with their pants down. The india factor has totally blown the power structure in the region---.

One part of their salvation is if somehow or the other---the Paf gets 3-4 sqdrn's of some tier 4 / 4.5 gen aircraft and 3 or 4 of 4000 ton frigates in a very very short time---.

The aircraft before anything else.
 
Hi,

But this time---the time may not be on their side---. They have been caught with their pants down. The india factor has totally blown the power structure in the region---.

One part of their salvation is if somehow or the other---the Paf gets 3-4 sqdrn's of some tier 4 / 4.5 gen aircraft and 3 or 4 of 4000 ton frigates in a very very short time---.

The aircraft before anything else.


Yes, MK, China has been working on the paradigm of win-win cooperation and coexistence with indians...and yes, the Chinese thought development will win the indians over. They misread the south asian hegemon.

Now the Chinese are dealing with this in more measured and pragmatic manner...slow does it.

Regarding your point of re-arming the Pak forces...many major steps are already underway...silence does it.

However, you need trained pilots before the planes...which is happening as we speak...please, take note should ever need arise...China will give her own planes / ships to Pak...much more so now than ever before.

Please, thanks to indian beligerence...Sino-Pak Security is ever more intertiwned now.

However, your political class is not up to mark. Please, do forgive my directness regarding your internal affairs.
 
Y
However, you need trained pilots before the planes...which is happening as we speak...please, take note should ever need arise...China will give her own planes / ships to Pak...much more so now than ever before.

Hi,

There is another way to look at it---. What is visible----gives more assurance to the public and also acts as visible force multiplier---thus a deterrence.

The enemy is not sure if the pilots are up to date or not---for they already know that Paf pilots have been in contact with Plaaf---and that makes the enemy play safe and not take a chance.

It is very important now---to take steps that makes the enemy take a few step backwards---because it is unsure of the changing paradigm.

Duterte has given the chinese another lifeline---and that is a step back for indian progression in that region---.

The problem with hidden deal is that sometimes they stay hidden at the crucial hours as nothing was made public---so there was nothing at stake for face saving to follow thru with the commitment.
 
@Sinopakfriend
China and Pakistan are joined at hips economically and strategically and India and uncle sam know that so they are doing utmost to undo the relation and deal each one separately and if not, then surround them from every side and do the damage. China has improved its relations with Russia so its back is safe rather Russia wants to play a meaningful role along with Pakistan and China in region and benefit economically from this relationship through CPEC and similar arrangements.

However Pakistan faces two belligerent neighbours namely India and Afghanistan; the two countries with which Pakistan shares its longest borders on eastern and western fronts. Pakistan, China and Russia need to join and support each other in solving the Afghanistan issue and the solution is simple i.e. to arm and strengthen pro-Pakistan and pro-peace group in Afghanistan and give a damn to what NATO thinks. Under Taliban, Afghanistan was a peaceful place and it had just started to surge economically but USA attacked and destroyed it and made the whole region unstable. We should closely work on it. As I write this comment, Taliban and China have agreed for copper mining in Afghanistan and Russia is already negotiating with them...they are a ground reality and we should embrace it since they are not anti-Pakistan and we should disregard the propaganda by the western and Indian media and their stooges in Pakistani media against Afghan Taliban, because the fact is that Afghan Taliban have no ambitions outside of Afghanistan and it was peaceful place under their control.

Furthermore as @MastanKhan has already said that PAF needs to be strengthened asap. IMO, Su-35s can be a great addition and an instant power booster for PAF and also for air wing of PNS..thus if China-Pak-Russia can strike a deal for 3-4 sqdrns of these heavy weights, it can really alter the balance in favour of PAF vs IAF. Same goes for PNS while PA is fairing quite good and it will get even better with acquisition of the new MBTs, APVs and artillery.

The work on CPEC is progressing on a steady pace thanks to the dedication by Chinese govt and Pakistan Army. However Pakistan is suffering from the disease of incompetent and the corrupt govt which I'm sure you are totally aware of it and that adds tremendously to the woos of Pakistan and IDK what role China can play in this since this is Pakistan's internal affair but still it influences China as well. Though decision about who stay in PM house in Islamabad have been, unfortunately, decided outside the boundaries of Pakistan more often than not especially in the post-ZAB era.
 
Hi,

Pakistani public---the average people know about chinese friendship---but don't see it in reality---they see the chinese diesel locomotives that break down---.

What they need to see is some chinese funded hospitals in poor areas and schools and colleges as well---technical training centers---.

China is going to fail in this top down friendship---just like the public rejected the Saudi and Emirati alliance---they might reject the pak chinese alliance as well.

China is playing a very dangerous game and it may bite it in the end---.

Don't forget that Zardari is coming back and he will have new instructions from the U S.

I think that china has very serious problems---and it has failed to see them understand them acknowledge them---I seriously think that china is in deep sh-it and it does not know it yet.
 
Hi,

Pakistani public---the average people know about chinese friendship---but don't see it in reality---they see the chinese diesel locomotives that break down---.

What they need to see is some chinese funded hospitals in poor areas and schools and colleges as well---technical training centers---.

China is going to fail in this top down friendship---just like the public rejected the Saudi and Emirati alliance---they might reject the pak chinese alliance as well.

China is playing a very dangerous game and it may bite it in the end---.

Don't forget that Zardari is coming back and he will have new instructions from the U S.

I think that china has very serious problems---and it has failed to see them understand them acknowledge them---I seriously think that china is in deep sh-it and it does not know it yet.
China and Turkey should focus on developing relations with Pakistani people instead of establishing relations with the govts and some politicians because they are temporary but the people to people will outlast them.
 
China and Turkey should focus on developing relations with Pakistani people instead of establishing relations with the govts and some politicians because they are temporary but the people to people will outlast them.

Hi,

I think that Pakistan is in a very difficult situation militarily---.

OTOH---Zardari desperately wants to come back to Pakistan---which mean that the U S desperately want to regain control of Pakistan.

Which means that in due time---you people will realize that Gen Raheel Shareef did more damage to Pakistan in his tenure than ypou people anticipated by letting Zardari escape Pakistan---and not forcing Nawaz to dissolve the govt 2 years ago and holding fresh elections.

With a weak air force---relationship with china or Turkey don't mean much if combat started today---.
 
Hi,

I think that Pakistan is in a very difficult situation militarily---.

OTOH---Zardari desperately wants to come back to Pakistan---which mean that the U S desperately want to regain control of Pakistan.

Which means that in due time---you people will realize that Gen Raheel Shareef did more damage to Pakistan in his tenure than ypou people anticipated by letting Zardari escape Pakistan---and not forcing Nawaz to dissolve the govt 2 years ago and holding fresh elections.

With a weak air force---relationship with china or Turkey don't mean much if combat started today---.
AZ's return to Pakistan and he grabbing the control of the power are too different things and honestly the thought of latter happening is far fetched no matter how rigged the elections may be as he has virtually no support in Punjab and his popularity in Sindh is also eroding.

Well if Pakistan is weak militarily in conventional terms may mean a lower threshold for the nuclear war and that spells a bigger disaster for any aggressor.

As far as RS is concerned, he was a great battle commander but his strategy was limited and approach wrong on many occasions for example he used to issue big statements but then he couldn't materialise them rather his statements acted as pre-warnings for the corrupt politicians and they got ready and fled the country. I would have preferred a general who believed in doing thing first and then issuing statements and not the other way round.
 
I would have preferred a general who believed in doing thing first and then issuing statements and not the other way round.

Hi,

That is the definition of a true commander in chief---.

The U S has many ways to influence the govt---maybe Zardari might come in with a serious warning that the americans might not want to deliver thru their own diplomats---.

Regarding a lower nuc threshold---. I fear that there may not be a nuc war---pakistani elite is well off now and they won't use the nucs---but bow down and offer submission with a promise to stay in power----.

Meaning---the nuc threat is just a drama by the pakistani politicians---. They have all their money obverseas---most of them have 1/2 their families living abroad---.

So---they will basically accept defeat and offer surrender.
 
Hi,

That is the definition of a true commander in chief---.

The U S has many ways to influence the govt---maybe Zardari might come in with a serious warning that the americans might not want to deliver thru their own diplomats---.

Regarding a lower nuc threshold---. I fear that there may not be a nuc war---pakistani elite is well off now and they won't use the nucs---but bow down and offer submission with a promise to stay in power----.

Meaning---the nuc threat is just a drama by the pakistani politicians---. They have all their money obverseas---most of them have 1/2 their families living abroad---.

So---they will basically accept defeat and offer surrender.
Hi sir,

That's really scary but I'm sure that it won't happen despite their treachery. NS didn't want to test nukes in 1998 and it is on record by Majeed Nizami and Dr AQ Khan, but he had to do so. I think in that situation some army general will press the button by having these idiots on gun point or may be shooting some of them down instead of accepting the eternal disgrace.

People and history may forgive them for 1971 debacle but this won't be.
 
Pakistan fully understands the difference between China and the US. One is interested in trade and prosperity. The other in war and backstabbing.

China and Pakistan share mutual interests on every level. No doubt, Pakistan and China cooperation will continue unabated.

it is funny you never say such things when the checks were rolling
 
No, they bloody don't want to run away. I wish they did but at strategic level they want to remain in Kabul. Some form of US military presence is here to stay in Afghanistan but they will slowly let India take over more of the routine stuff. That is the problem for Pakistan and China.

And worse is the longer the US stays amnd those against NUG come to the conclusion they are NOT going to leave then more of them will switch sides. Leaving just a tiny hardcore to fight it out for long time. That is the problem.
usa has gone through worst economic crisis since 1930s due 2 afg and iraq and has 2 evict india doesnt has usa capabilities usa cannot remain in afg 4 long term and 4 india it is our isi wish that india enter afg so afg can b made indian grave as was made 4 russia and usa economic might
 

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