Citizenship Amendment Act will not help us: Bangladesh Hindu leader to Indian journalists

[fitpOsitive]

Definitely. India should work with people in order to ease things for Hindus, just like we Muslims work or Christians work. I mean, what these drama bills will do any betterment to Hindus living in other countries?

 

[jamahir]

Slavery is not against Islam.

Slavery was abolished in Saudi Arabia in 1962, and that too only because of Western pressure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery

The Quran has explicit verses on what to do with slaves - nowhere does it say not to own slaves. It even has verses about how the soul of a slave is worth less than half that of freemen.

Being a Muslim, he ought to be fully supportive of slavery, like his prophet Mister Muhammad was.

Your own Wikipedia source has this :

Bilal ibn Ribah was an African slave who was emancipated when Abu Bakr paid his ransom upon Muhammad's instruction. He was appointed by Muhammad as the first official muezzin. This image depicts him atop the Kaaba in January 630, when he became the first Muslim to proclaim adhan in Mecca.

Secondly, below is about one element about marriage in Islam :

The Quran (2:221)[15] also states,
"And do not marry Polytheist women until they believe, And a believing slave woman is better than a Polytheist women, even though she might please you. And do not marry Polytheist men until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a Polytheist men, even though he might please you. Those invite [you] to the Fire, but Allah invites to Paradise and to forgiveness, by His permission. And He makes clear His verses to the people that perhaps they may remember".

Yes, even though Islam was a radical revolutionary movement it preserved slave system in its initial time maybe because of political expediency of wanting to attract the slave-keeping powerful people and reforming them and it is certain that had Hazrat Muhammad lived on he would have abolished slavery. But what do the above picture and its caption and the above quote tell you ? They tell that slaves were liberated / emancipated too even to the point of one being assigned a major religious position and a Muslim female had the choice of marrying any male who pleased her, including a Muslim slave who could better in social and socio-economic circumstance by marrying her, and including a polytheist as long as he converted to Islam. However in Hinduism there is neither emancipation of the female nor are the slaves emancipated ( Shudras, Dalits, the poor generally ).

Lastly, from your source :

Levy concurs, adding that "cruelty to them was forbidden."[71] Al-Hibri quotes the famous last speech of Muhammad and other hadiths emphasizing that all believers, whether free or enslaved, are siblings.[70] Lewis explains, "the humanitarian tendency of the Quran and the early caliphs in the Islamic empire, was to some extent counteracted by other influences,"[3] notably the practice of various conquered people and countries Muslims encountered, especially in provinces previously under Roman law. In spite of this, Lewis also states, "Islamic practice still represented a vast improvement on that inherited from antiquity, from Rome, and from Byzantium."[3]

What should that tell you again ?

 

[Sharma Ji]

And it is precisely the commie "pig" ( actually a cat )

how many cats do you have ? show us some pics.

and I know better than to get baited into a religious discussion here, not going to bite.

"To your country" ? The concept of the country, the Nation State, is a recent, artificial one

no, the nation state is no longer a concept, but a reality !

srsly man, kaunsi dunia me rehte ho ?

Communism among its other few desires seeks to end the artificial separation of humans that happens through the artificial walls called national borders which may hide oppressive and anti-human regimes within and then maintain huge militaries to protect the internal wrong political, social and socio-economic systems. Communism seeks to end national borders and abolish the current national militaries. We currently have wrong systems like India, Pakistan and USA and we have imperialist militaries like from USA seeking to impose their own wrong systems on other societies 10,000 kms away through mass destruction. Is this right ?

I feel for the plight of the poor and do what I can to help in whatever capacity.. I'll bet I do more than you to help make their lives better. You sit online and crib and complain about random dead dictators, I actually help with money, food, clothes, education and many other things in the real world.

Tell me, can one go into low Earth orbit and expect to see physical borders separating almost all countries ? The answer is a strong no. So if Nature doesn't assign humans national borders why have modern humans drawn those up ?

Culture is also a form of nature, so that, along with a few other critical factors, such a religion, language, ethnicity and so on define a nation of people. A nation state can incorporate many diverse people in its fold, there's great diversity among people in India, I love it. If you ever get out of your town and actually experience it for yourself, you would (well, one can hope) love it too.

One shouldn't strive to be loyal to one's country but loyal to humanity and to the correct morality that arises from being loyal to humanity. A country / nation is a temporary thing because with a regional collaborative revolution three countries can become one. And it is always the case that, like especially in India, the one who shouts I am a patriot the loudest and seeks to denigrate the pan-human Communists especially will be the one to be the ultimate oppressor in his or her temporary construct called The Country or The Nation.

not being a low iq collectivist like communists are, I can only speak for myself. About as far as one can get from a hateful person here, and get along great with all people. Respect the European way when in Europe, respect Muslim or Hindu or whatever else and their ways when in their areas.. and so on..

communism only works on paper, the prerequisites for it is that all people are unthinking and mindless controllable little bots who need a nanny state to feed, clothe and shelter them. NOT INTERESTED ! just get that in your head already, ok ? Stop trying to sell communism to me, don't believe I've ever tried to sell this or that belief system to you.

It might be a temporary construct in the extremely long run but for now and for my lifetime, this nation state is here to stay.. what happens a 100 years down the line is not something I concern myself with.

"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine."

I don't tremble at anything, bad shit happens.. there is no magic pill or silver bullet to solve the world's many many problems.. one is best advised to just be a nice person, which, just btw, does not include emptying out everything in your house, your bank , your fridge and give it to everyone else. lol

also, I'm no comrade, go ef yourself.

empathy empathy empathy empathy empathy empathy

I have plenty of empathy and help in whatever little capacity I can but will not take kindly to thieves whose only desire is to steal from me (or anyone else).

Kya broken record ban k reh gya hai ? Do you not see, that even here, even with your ultra anti BJP etc views.. you don't exactly have a bunch of people in agreement with you ? Most from the other side would rather agree with my views on the matter in fact

 

[Tom-tom]

You should kick all kafirs out of bd. They have no loyalty towards BD. Pak knew that and killed all Hindu intellectuals first in 1971 and then killed you alike for your disloyalty. When a majority can be disloyal to its own country, what can you expect from a minority hindu community.

Coming from a pak Muslim that adheres to a caste system. Every pak Muslims I met asks what caste I am and they precede to tell what caste they are.


Most were Muslim killed in 71' these so called traitors voted for the new leader of Pakistan but you back stabbing traitorous elite didn't allow it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

And it is precisely the commie "pig" ( actually a cat ) who states that the mullah is an oppressor, a feudal, an ardent Capitalist who extracts labor from a worker without arranging for the worker the compensation for his or her labor in form of arranging a welfare-based society where he or she can potentially have access to all the goods and services in the society in a manner equal to the work giver. The mullah is ever against human rights, equality and dignity. The mullah has brought into Islam the very anti-Islamic concept of the priesthood, the clergy, the agent between Human and God, a separate power-hungry political, social and socio-economic class that was supposed to have been prohibited in Islam.

The Hindu priest is also an interpolation. There is no clear role for the priest before the conception of sacrifices becoming the mode of worship, and the methods of sacrificing refined to a degree where only an expert well-versed in the practice of sacrifice could conduct it. From this, to preserve their social role as a specific caste, was a clear and inevitable progression.

"To your country" ? The concept of the country, the Nation State, is a recent, artificial one coming from the French Revolution of the late 1700s whose aims AFAIK were to abolish the traditional monarchy and feudalism. Tipu Sultan , the progressive ruler of Mysore, was the first administrator in India to be inspired by the French Revolution and he is said to have supported the institution of the Jacobin Club of Mysore :
If Tipu had lived into the mid-1800s having gradually kicked out the British, the Danish and the Portuguese from India he would have gone further down the line in revolutionary thought and would have been the first Communist administrator who would have spread Communism in all the Indian regions. Communism among its other few desires seeks to end the artificial separation of humans that happens through the artificial walls called national borders which may hide oppressive and anti-human regimes within and then maintain huge militaries to protect the internal wrong political, social and socio-economic systems. Communism seeks to end national borders and abolish the current national militaries. We currently have wrong systems like India, Pakistan and USA and we have imperialist militaries like from USA seeking to impose their own wrong systems on other societies 10,000 kms away through mass destruction. Is this right ?

Tell me, can one go into low Earth orbit and expect to see physical borders separating almost all countries ? The answer is a strong no. So if Nature doesn't assign humans national borders why have modern humans drawn those up ? Before 1947 during British India the British dominion's citizen could travel from the farthest corner in present Afghanistan ( which though wasn't quite part of the British empire ) to the farthest corner in present Burma / Myanmar without passport and visa so what happened after 1947 ?

One shouldn't strive to be loyal to one's country but loyal to humanity and to the correct morality that arises from being loyal to humanity. A country / nation is a temporary thing because with a regional collaborative revolution three countries can become one. And it is always the case that, like especially in India, the one who shouts I am a patriot the loudest and seeks to denigrate the pan-human Communists especially will be the one to be the ultimate oppressor in his or her temporary construct called The Country or The Nation.

This is not a new theme in the Indian independence movement, from the point of view of the Congress, although even their flexible approach to nation-hood (in the western, 'Westphalian' sense) was outflanked by Tagore's explicit challenge to the concept of a western nation, with national anthem, national flag and all that purely western paraphernalia.

Below is my thread :

Who is the anti-national in India ?

The Hindutva right-wing groups ( BJP, RSS etc ) in India and their many supporters in the visual and print media, on Twitter and on various websites are fond of assigning the phrase "anti-national" and so demonizing certain groups who either revolt against the right-wingers or don't fit into the...

defence.pk

You would have noticed that Communist movements in countries are generally named as "Communist Party of / Communist Movement of" and then the current country name. That is because Communists speak and struggle for a pan-human revolution, a world revolution that will result in the falling of national borders and the abolishment of national militaries. A world of peace, serenity under a single progressive, just, harmonious, scientific and Nature-aligning governance system. This is my thread from a few days ago about the story of the daughter of the female founder of the transnational revolutionary movement Japanese Red Army whose husband was a fighter with the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, another Communist group under the PLO. See the transnational, pan-human collaboration here in multiple ways ? That is how it should be, as Nature defines. So by being loyal to general human values and by being empathetic to the sufferings of humans far away from your current national borders you will develop empathy for the sufferings of the humans in your own country, a true loyalty to your country. Two quotes from the great revolutionary Che Guevara :
"Above all, always be capable of feeling deeply any injustice committed against anyone, anywhere in the world. This is the most beautiful quality in a revolutionary."

"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine."

Hence Pragati Purush Modi ji and his 500 million brain dead "Bharat Mata Ki Jai" chanting followers will not in a light year develop the empathy and solutions for people in India that the progressives especially the Communists have since the establishment of the Communist Party of India in 1920.

While I agree with your rejection of the bigotry and hate-filled politics currently in power, I am unable to go along with your extension of that rejection to converge with the Communist paradigm.

 

[SQ8]

Slavery is not against Islam.

Slavery was abolished in Saudi Arabia in 1962, and that too only because of Western pressure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery

The Quran has explicit verses on what to do with slaves - nowhere does it say not to own slaves. It even has verses about how the soul of a slave is worth less than half that of freemen.

Being a Muslim, he ought to be fully supportive of slavery, like his prophet Mister Muhammad was.

Because it was the norm of the times, so was making houses out of clay- that doesn’t mean laws on treatment of human beings subservient to you or employed by you were any less revolutionary in how they are.

And lets rephrase your cheapshot Mister Randi..
The prophet was supportive of better treatment of slaves - not slavery

 

[BananaRepublicUK]

Citizenship Amendment Act will not help us: Bangladesh Hindu leader​

View attachment 852612

Prime Minister Narendra Modi with devotees at Sree Dhakeshwari National Temple in Dhaka, Bangladesh. File photo | Photo Credit: PTI

Kallol BhattacherjeeDHAKA: JUNE 09, 2022 08:37 IST
UPDATED: JUNE 09, 2022 10:05 IST

A leading member of the Hindu community of Bangladesh has said that the Citizenship Amendment Act (CAA) of India will not help them deal with the challenges ahead.

Interacting with a visiting team of Indian journalists on Wednesday, June 8, 2022, Monindra Kumar Nath, President, Mohanagar Sarbojoneen Puja Committee said that the community’s real aim is to have a minority affairs ministry and a special permanent commission for the minority religious communities.

“We do not welcome this special law from India. Such laws are not helpful. We do have certain problems like many others but we are from Bangladesh and we will remain here. No one wants to leave his or her motherland and take refuge in a neighbouring country. People leave their roots only in extremely unfortunate circumstances and there is no certainty for their future in such situations. We will deal with whatever challenges we have by mobilising our community in a coordinated manner within our country,” said M. Nath who is also the Joint General Secretary of the Bangladesh Hindu Buddhist Christian Unity Council.

View attachment 852614

Activists join a procession demanding justice for the violence against Hindu communities during Durga Puja festival in Dhaka on October 18, 2021. File photo | Photo Credit: REUTERS

The Sheikh Hasina government faced a major challenge last year when a communal disturbance broke out in Brahmanbaria and Comilla in the eastern part of the party and spread quickly to Chittagong. The phase witnessed mob attacks on the Durga puja pandals. But Mr. Nath said that the number of Durga puja celebrations in the country has in fact nearly doubled during the last 12 years, from 10-15,000 to 30,000. The Mahanagar Sarbojoneen Puja Committee is the central religious body of the Hindu community in Bangladesh as it grants permission to community members to hold Durga puja celebrations across the country.

Mr. Deb acknowledged that the Sheikh Hasina government has been proactive in dealing with majoritarian tendencies, though some sporadic incidents of intimidation of the minority Hindu community is reported from time to time. He said that over the years, representation of the community has also increased in Bangladesh. “We have increased representation in the bureaucracy and in the law and order machinery. But we need to have a minority affairs minister and that is what we are campaigning for. That apart, there should also be a minority affairs commission that will ensure rights of the minority groups in the country,” said Mr. Nath.

India enacted the Citizenship Amendment Act in 2019, though the Government is yet to frame the rules of the Act. The law is aimed at granting citizenship to the persecuted members of the Hindu, Buddhist, Parsi, Christian, Sikh and Jain communities of Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan.

Mr. Nath said that the Sheikh Hasina government has reached out to the minority communities and has helped the historic Dhakeshwari temple of Dhaka in regaining the property that it had lost earlier. Bangladesh is also building a Buddhist pilgrimage centre in Lumbini, Nepal, which will cater to the Buddhist pilgrims from all over the world.

Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina’s government has a Ministry of Religious Affairs. The Ministry looks after the issues involving all mosques, temples, churches, pagodas and Gurdwaras in Bangladesh. Mr. Nath argued that the issue of a separate ministry will be part of the agenda of the minority communities as the country gets into election mode for next year.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/citizenship-amendment-act-will-not-help-us-bangladesh-hindu-leader/article65509609.ece/amp/

Modi has made beds for Bangladeshi Hindus.

You know what happens next…

Modi the genocidal maniac!

The Hindu priest is also an interpolation. There is no clear role for the priest before the conception of sacrifices becoming the mode of worship, and the methods of sacrificing refined to a degree where only an expert well-versed in the practice of sacrifice could conduct it. From this, to preserve their social role as a specific caste, was a clear and inevitable progression.


This is not a new theme in the Indian independence movement, from the point of view of the Congress, although even their flexible approach to nation-hood (in the western, 'Westphalian' sense) was outflanked by Tagore's explicit challenge to the concept of a western nation, with national anthem, national flag and all that purely western paraphernalia.


While I agree with your rejection of the bigotry and hate-filled politics currently in power, I am unable to go along with your extension of that rejection to converge with the Communist paradigm.

It will be pretty embarrassing for India and Bangladeshi Hindus if they don’t take up citizenship in India!

Put up or shut up time!!

 

[Bilal9]

This thread is a perfect example of why Bangladesh is an example of communal harmony, compared to other countries.

Why exploit people just because they worship someone other than Allah?

Remember Surah Ka'firun:

"La a'budu ma ta'buduna" لَآ اَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُوْنَۙ

"Unto you your religion, unto me mine."

All people are potential Muslims, how will they come to Islam, with our Da'wah - if you utter senseless threats like this to someone just professing a different religious belief? Our Sufi saints never supported these sorts of views.

 

[HydraChess]

Citizenship Amendment Act will not help us: Bangladesh Hindu leader​

Na kare.

 

[jamahir]

The Hindu priest is also an interpolation. There is no clear role for the priest before the conception of sacrifices becoming the mode of worship, and the methods of sacrificing refined to a degree where only an expert well-versed in the practice of sacrifice could conduct it. From this, to preserve their social role as a specific caste, was a clear and inevitable progression.

I see. Was this the reason for the separation of the incomers to India from the original Iranic religion ?

This is not a new theme in the Indian independence movement, from the point of view of the Congress, although even their flexible approach to nation-hood (in the western, 'Westphalian' sense) was outflanked by Tagore's explicit challenge to the concept of a western nation, with national anthem, national flag and all that purely western paraphernalia.

Wonderful that you wrote the underlined . Before I made the long post you quote I re-read Tagore's essay on Nationalism. To me he didn't seem to speak against the underlined. To me his were a lot of words that were half-hearted. I also read an article on The Wire about his letters from the USSR where while he appreciated the change in the education system he overall found no difference between the Communist revolutionary system there ( though changed by Stalin AFAIK) and the Tsarist Capitalist system it replaced. Tagore confused me.

While I agree with your rejection of the bigotry and hate-filled politics currently in power

I am unable to go along with your extension of that rejection to converge with the Communist paradigm.

Why ?

 

[KAL-EL]

This thread was looking interesting until it took a turn on a road to nowhere.

I'm a complete outsider, but I was trying to keep up

 

[Sharma Ji]

While I agree with your rejection of the bigotry and hate-filled politics currently in power, I am unable to go along with your extension of that rejection to converge with the Communist paradigm.

another crypto sanghi, spotted !

 

[Joe Shearer]

I see. Was this the reason for the separation of the incomers to India from the original Iranic religion ?

Tempting, but I can't say so with confidence. After all, the Zoroastrians have as strict a priestly class, that they brought with them, not one that they imitated after arrival.

Wonderful that you wrote the underlined . Before I made the long post you quote I re-read Tagore's essay on Nationalism. To me he didn't seem to speak against the underlined. To me his were a lot of words that were half-hearted. I also read an article on The Wire about his letters from the USSR where while he appreciated the change in the education system he overall found no difference between the Communist revolutionary system there ( though changed by Stalin AFAIK) and the Tsarist Capitalist system it replaced. Tagore confused me.

He confused a lot of people, but he was very clear in his views. Many nationalist leaders did not contradict him, but edged gingerly past his position, acknowledging him for a genius who was eccentric.

Why ?

One of these days....

another crypto sanghi, spotted !

 

[Mentee]

Guys don't berate @jamahir
The guy is a gem in philosophical sense -----.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Guys don't berate @jamahir
The guy is a gem in philosophical sense -----.

his "philosophy" only works on paper, and only if you're stoned