Chinese Researcher in the West Thread

[大汉奸柳传志]

You are right bro, and imagine the gap if China does not suffer from this brain drain problem!

lol I would imagine less than 20 years from now China will start brain drain the US

 

[Jlaw]

lol I would imagine less than 20 years from now China will start brain drain the US

Why do you think that?

 

[Shotgunner51]

lol I would imagine less than 20 years from now China will start brain drain the US

Yes bro that's the idea I was talking about, in the long run!

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

Why do you think that?

How many years would you give for China to become the world center for scientific research？if you think that could ever happen

 

[Jlaw]

How many years would you give for China to become the world center for scientific research？if you think that could ever happen

I'm realistic so my answer is I don't know. But I do know that the Chinese scholars/researchers in the west always take the back seat when they co-write articles with their white counterpart. I'm sure the Chinese researchers did most of the work.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

US is still preferred destination for a lot of best brains, and hence the country will continue to lead the world in tech. Brain drain, yes that's a challenge that most countries are facing, especially low return-rate like mainland China.

It's important for China to study (1) why US is capable of attracting foreign talents, or (2) why some other countries like Taiwan have much higher return rate. For the first question, I doubt even if China knows the answer anything can be done in the short run given US' uniqueness in its ethnic formation, immigration policy and political history. More efforts should be spent in studying question #2, the findings will be much more useful, and pragmatic.

And that's why in China there is an intensive study on the East Asia model, covering not just industrialization but social/civil performances. Hope mainland China can first decrease brain drain in the near future, and then become a magnet for world talents in the long run.

I think the 'return pull' is directly related to two variables. First the actaul financial/salary aspect and the second quality of life. The first is simple the second is lot more complicated. But for sure between these two variables pivots the destination of talent.

 

[Jlaw]

I think the 'return pull' is directly related to two variables. First the actaul financial/salary aspect and the second quality of life. The first is simple the second is lot more complicated. But for sure between these two variables pivots the destination of talent.

The problem is China cannot match US in this respect. A top researcher making over 100k/US year in the US, has a family, nice big house, etc. Most likely he does not need to live in a big city like NY to earn that.

How can China match that? They can't presently imo.

 

[j20blackdragon]

R&D is but one part of the value chain.

As long as the manufacturing is done in China, the technology goes to China anyway.

High-technology exports (current US$) | Data | Table

Furthermore, if there are no smart people in China, how did the last 35 years of economic growth happen?

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

1. There aren't many conflicting results if you look carefully for data. This is data for PhD students from Mainland undergoing their PhD in the US, who are being asked for their preference to stay or return after PhD. This is based on preference and not necessarily the reality. Also, this is asking for immediate return, and excludes those who may return subsequently, say after 2-3 years of some research in a commercial lab.

That said, with 82% refusing to return after their PhD is already very dire condition.

2. Pan Jianwei is an exception, for he seems to be very Nationalistic as well. I remember his first words to his supervisor in Europe was, "That he wants to return to China to create a lab like this."

Also, you are wrong. Most of the China's best minds stay in the US. Just have a look at world's best material scientists. The most cited, (I forget the name) is Chinese, yet he is in US.

3. I have created this page, because I am a China tech scene watcher, and as such get regular news regarding China tech space from Google News, and it has become frustrating for me to keep reading articles, which have been picked up because of the mention of the word "China" and "technology," but have nothing to do with China's technology in the sense that it was not created by a Chinese lab, or company, but by a Chinese in US.

I know these guys lol. They're crowd followers. They pick very conservative topics to start out, then once they are established (and don't have to do any work personally) they send a horde of graduate students to work on trendy buzzword projects. If the students fail? Fk their shit, they're just pawns. I'm in the field lol. These guys early resumes don't impress me. Their later achievements are indeed great though.

Pan is enough, IMO. Pan is the Chinese equivalent of Einstein, that's how high I would rate his intelligence. I myself am a physicist (in semiconductor materials though, not quantum optics) and I fully understand how insanely difficult Pan's work is and how groundbreaking it is. It literally is being used as the first quantum cryptography network EVER built and 100x more useful than whatever nanowire Yang Peidong (that's the guy's name, btw. UC Berkeley prof) had a poor, overworked postdoc synthesize.

The problem is China cannot match US in this respect. A top researcher making over 100k/US year in the US, has a family, nice big house, etc. Most likely he does not need to live in a big city like NY to earn that.

How can China match that? They can't presently imo.

lol and they take 10 years to get tenure while working 60 hours weeks for it, minimum, while living in a small rural town in the middle of nowhere surrounded by white ppl. Back in the day, Chinese didn't care because so many had self hate syndrome and didn't mind not being Chinese anymore, but today, Chinese do care. How many are willing to spend the rest of their lives living as 2nd class citizens, in a small rural town? The Chinese who want to immigrate want to live in Los Angeles or NYC to become upper class, surrounded by other super rich Chinese ppl. Straight from the mouth of a classmate in CS here.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

I think the 'return pull' is directly related to two variables. First the actaul financial/salary aspect and the second quality of life. The first is simple the second is lot more complicated. But for sure between these two variables pivots the destination of talent.

That mostly applies to teaching positions..

While in the field of basic science like Theoretical Physics，many top scientists usually care more about their work and less about money，they tend to value academic atmosphere more and likely to stay since the US is still in the league of its own in this regard. The salary China can pay doesn‘t matter that much

But in the field of applied science, when the reserchers wish to commercialize their ideas，they go where the market is.. In this case China is no less attractive than the US. Chinese companies are also more willing to give stock bonus to these high value returners and often make them millionaires. Again salary doesn‘t matter much.

I think China is doing just fine without giving much incentives on the policy level，the sheer economy size is a big enough incentive and attraction for the talents we need，not to say the Theoretical Physics is less important but China as a country playing catching up should know its priorities

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Liberal Chinese will destroy China society in the future. @ChineseTiger1986 . I see more of them day by day don't you agree?

Only a second cultural revolution will mute them for another several decades.

We need a periodical cultural revolution in order to prevent the evil seed of those filthy liberal scums in China to grow.

 

[Tiger Genie]

And hence my point of China being one of the biggest losers of Human Capital in the world.

not really. It is my belief / educated guess that a majority, a predominant majority of education and research by foreign born scientists, whether Chinese, Indian, Russian, Polish....happens in and AFTER they come to the USA. Very few of these people would have accomplished anywhere near what they did, had they not migrated to the USA.

Taking India for example (and I could do the same for China as well): 7 out of 10 students that come to the USA for higher studies produce junk or mediocre research and end up lifelong post-grads assistants or similar; the 3 however are stellar.

Engineering and Management studies is a different story.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

That mostly applies to teaching positions..

While in the field of basic science like Theoretical Physics，many top scientists usually care more about their work and less about money，they tend to value academic atmosphere more and likely to stay since the US is still in the league of its own in this regard. The salary China can pay doesn‘t matter that much

But in the field of applied science, when the reserchers wish to commercialize their ideas，they go where the market is.. In this case China is no less attractive than the US. Chinese companies are also more willing to give stock bonus to these high value returners and often make them millionaires. Again salary doesn‘t matter much.

I think China is doing just fine without giving much incentives on the policy level，the sheer economy size is a big enough incentive and attraction for the talents we need，not to say the Theoretical Physics is less important but China as a country playing catching up should know its priorities

Your right there but don't forget the aggregate effect of offering some the best financial remuneration coupled with excellant quality of life has created centres of critical mass. That is institutions which have become famous for attracting the best and thus offering fertile enivironment for those who are driven by noble instincts like theoretical research or broaden human knowledge. These are trees that have matured over decades of having a prosperous and rewarding environment. China will get there as well.

So all the best to China ...

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

not really. It is my belief / educated guess that a majority, a predominant majority of education and research by foreign born scientists, whether Chinese, Indian, Russian, Polish....happens in and AFTER they come to the USA. Very few of these people would have accomplished anywhere near what they did, had they not migrated to the USA.

Taking India for example (and I could do the same for China as well): 7 out of 10 students that come to the USA for higher studies produce junk or mediocre research and end up lifelong post-grads assistants or similar; the 3 however are stellar.

Engineering and Management studies is a different story.

its absolutely true. if those guys did not go to the US, most of them would not be considered smart people.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

How could China be called a loser while the gap between China and US in technology is not widening but fast closing

Read carefully. I say China is one of the biggest losers of human capital in the world. Nothing to do with technological gap.