Chinese cars now on par with the best western and Japanese cars

[Clutch]

China once coppied BMW but failed miserably in crash test while Indian less than 2000 USD car Nano passed it easily. Now Tata Naxon has 5 star safety rating. Most ofIndian cars have 4 star safety rating now.

I doubt that is true.. who was the testing authority? International safety benchmarks? Link?

 

[HariPrasad]

Your welcome sir, with all my respect.

If Chinese car market look same like indian car market. Yes, I will have same opinion like you

Indian brand cars only get a tiny fraction of their own market, only 12% of their people prefer their own brand cars

Indian auto sales

Chinese Brand cars doing very good in EV (Electric Green Vehicle) segment

The difference is that Japanes car maker company Maruti Suzuki is totally indianized now. No more technology and parts comes from Japan. Infcat , they have development centers here, They have R & D center here. They develop technology here and takes it back to japan. They make cars in India and exports to Japan. Indian Maruti has grown bigger than Parent Suzuki in japan.

This is true with many multinationals. They just have foreign ownership but from CEOs to most of top management is Indian so as key engineers. IBM has now become an Indian company with majority work force spreading across all the positions.

I doubt that is true.. who was the testing authority? International safety benchmarks? Link?

Crash Test video of MIRA is available on you tube.

 

[Han Patriot]

The difference is that Japanes car maker company Maruti Suzuki is totally indianized now. No more technology and parts comes from Japan. Infcat , they have development centers here, They have R & D center here. They develop technology here and takes it back to japan. They make cars in India and exports to Japan. Indian Maruti has grown bigger than Parent Suzuki in japan.

This is true with many multinationals. They just have foreign ownership but from CEOs to most of top management is Indian so as key engineers. IBM has now become an Indian company with majority work force spreading across all the positions.



Crash Test video of MIRA is available on you tube.

hahahaha SUZUKI is now Indian? OMG.

Your welcome sir, with all my respect.

If Chinese car market look same like indian car market. Yes, I will have same opinion like you

Indian brand cars only get a tiny fraction of their own market, only 12% of their people prefer their own brand cars

Indian auto sales

Chinese Brand cars doing very good in EV (Electric Green Vehicle) segment

Indian cars are crap, they tried to export some smallish cheapo cars for Hyundai and Suzuki, vry bad quality. Don't even start about the spontaneous combustive TATA NANO.

I doubt that is true.. who was the testing authority? International safety benchmarks? Link?

Hari Prasad is a joke in this forum, he claims extraordinary things like the typical Indian who has never been out of India.

 

[GS Zhou]

I doubt that is true.. who was the testing authority? International safety benchmarks? Link?

His statement is half wrong, half true. I can give you more information.

NCAP refers to New Car Assessment Program. Different countries / regions have their own NCAP program, e.g. China NCAP, Euro NACP, Japan NCAP, Australia NCAP etc. India has its own NCAP program too, but it is called as Global NCAP.

Different NCAPs have different test protocols or standards. Hence test result from different NCAPs are usually NOT directly comparable. I.e. five-star rating from one NCAP, vs. five-star rating from another NCAP, may have very big difference.

For the China NCAP, it consists of the following tests:
- Frontal impact test with 100% overlap
- Frontal impact test with 40% overlapping
- Side impact test
- Neck protection test, or commonly known as "whiplash test"
- Pedestrian protection test
- ESC (Electronic Stability Control) performance test
- AEB (Autonomous Emergency Braking) performance test
- If the tested car is an electric vehicle, there is separate program to test its electric-drive system

All the vehicles tested by China-NCAP needs to do ALL the mentioned tests, and the safety rating (i.e. how many stars earned) is an aggregate result based upon all the tests done.

For example, the given link shows the test result of BYD Tang Electric SUV. We can not only see the final result, but also the result of each of the separate tests.
http://www.c-ncap.org/cncap/crash/1c85ddb987264d1b899c9cf40634dee2

This is the situation of China-NCAP. Then how about India NCAP (or Global NCAP, as the program call itself as Global NCAP). Global NCAP unfortunately conducts ONLY ONE test, the front offset test. And the safety rating is derived from this one single test.

For example, the following link shows the rating result of the Tata model. We can only see the front impact offset test results.
http://www.globalncap.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/SaferCarsForIndia-Tata-Nexon.pdf

Now we see the difference. The China Five star rating is derived from multiple different tests that targeting at the different sides of the cars, while the India NCAP only does one. Which one is a better safety indicator??

 

[rott]

The difference is that Japanes car maker company Maruti Suzuki is totally indianized now. No more technology and parts comes from Japan. Infcat , they have development centers here, They have R & D center here. They develop technology here and takes it back to japan. They make cars in India and exports to Japan. Indian Maruti has grown bigger than Parent Suzuki in japan.

This is true with many multinationals. They just have foreign ownership but from CEOs to most of top management is Indian so as key engineers. IBM has now become an Indian company with majority work force spreading across all the positions.



Crash Test video of MIRA is available on you tube.

Really? Who are you trying to BS? Go to any country and see if India has the authority to sell swift under the brand name Maruti. They sell it under Suzuki instead.

 

[Viet]

Chinese cars need time to occupy the world market like Chinese phones, but China now focuses and invests heavily on electric and driverless cars and car batteries cause China believe that's the future, conventional car producers could be all dead like Nokia and Ericsson if they don't adjust well.

There is a difference in buying a phone or a car. If the phone breaks down you can buy a new one. If your car breaks out while driving at 200kmh, your life is at stake. If China wants to sell cars to the US and Western Europe, you should invest more in quality. If quality is achieved, you invest in image. Until then, China cars are hard to sell here.

Other stuffs as electric or driverless cars are irrelevant in the first place. People don’t buy your stuffs if they don’t have trust in products.

 

[GS Zhou]

There is a difference in buying a phone or a car. If the phone breaks down you can buy a new one. If your car breaks out while driving at 200kmh, your life is at stake. If China wants to sell cars to the US and Western Europe, you should invest more in quality. If quality is achieved, you invest in image. Until then, China cars are hard to sell here.

Other stuffs as electric or driverless cars are irrelevant in the first place. People don’t buy your stuffs if they don’t have trust in products.

This is a very fair comment that I fully agree with. Until then, new car market in W. Europe and US is still difficult for Chinese brands cars to penetrate into.

While for other regions with less economy affordability, e.g. ASEAN, Latin America, Africa, Russia and other CIS countries, are very good target place to Chinese brands cars. SAIC is starting taking off in Thailand, Wuling in Indonesia, Geely in Malaysia (Geely car, but bearing the Proton logo), Greatwall in Peru and Chile. Many cases seen, and I believe there will be more.

 

[Han Patriot]

Really? Who are you trying to BS? Go to any country and see if India has the authority to sell swift under the brand name Maruti. They sell it under Suzuki instead.

Just because IBM employs alot of tech coolies, doesn't make it an Indian company. if tht was the case, then alot of MNCs are Chinese since they have manufacturing done in China.

 

[HariPrasad]

Really? Who are you trying to BS? Go to any country and see if India has the authority to sell swift under the brand name Maruti. They sell it under Suzuki instead.

WHY YOUR CARS ARE NOT GETTING BIG EXPORT ORDERS INSPITE OF BIGGEST PRODUCER OF CARS. CHINA HAS 50% LESS EXPORT OF CARS COMPARED TO INDIA. ANY CLUE?

 

[rott]

WHY YOUR CARS ARE NOT GETTING BIG EXPORT ORDERS INSPITE OF BIGGEST PRODUCER OF CARS. CHINA HAS 50% LESS EXPORT OF CARS COMPARED TO INDIA. ANY CLUE?

So Suzuki is an Indian brand? They sell it worldwide.

Just because IBM employs alot of tech coolies, doesn't make it an Indian company. if tht was the case, then alot of MNCs are Chinese since they have manufacturing done in China.

Indian Vedic logic.

 

[GS Zhou]

China exports 1 million units vehicles in 2018 (750k passenger vehicles + 280k commercial vehicles)
http://www.miit.gov.cn/n1146285/n1146352/n3054355/n3057585/n3057592/c6600201/content.html

India exports 750k units passenger vehicles and 100k units commercial vehicles in FY2017-18.
http://www.siamindia.com/statistics.aspx?mpgid=8&pgidtrail=15

Hence the claim that China exports 50% less is WRONG.

If we click the export split of India, we will find most of the cars that exported from India is done by the foreign car builders in India. This is not a bad thing, considering from the jobs creation perspective. But that also means the local Indian brands find it is hard to export in big scale. We can take a look at the export volume from Tata, or Mahindra.

Meanwhile, it also creates the question why the foreign car builders in China are reluctant to do big scale export. I'm not saying foreign car builders are NOT exporting from China, but they are not active in export from China. That's true.

The answer is the mandatory JV regulation in China. In China, all the foreign car builders are forced to run its China business via joint venture with a local car company. And the share of foreign side not allowed to be larger than 50%. E.g. Volkswagen, it has two JVs in China, SAIC-VW (SAIC owns 50%, VW owns 50%), and FAW-VW (FAW owns 60%, VW owns 40%). The similar situation applies to ALL foreign OEMs in China.

That being said, if Volkswagen does a large scale export from China, 50%, or even 60% of the profits, would have to be shared with its local partners SAIC or FAW. This is very clearly NO wise choice from the perspective of Volkswagen.

 

[Han Patriot]

China exports 1 million units vehicles in 2018 (750k passenger vehicles + 280k commercial vehicles)
http://www.miit.gov.cn/n1146285/n1146352/n3054355/n3057585/n3057592/c6600201/content.html

India exports 750k units passenger vehicles and 100k units commercial vehicles in FY2017-18.
http://www.siamindia.com/statistics.aspx?mpgid=8&pgidtrail=15

Hence the claim that China exports 50% less is WRONG.

If we click the export split of India, we will find most of the cars that exported from India is done by the foreign car builders in India. This is not a bad thing, considering from the jobs creation perspective. But that also means the local Indian brands find it is hard to export in big scale. We can take a look at the export volume from Tata, or Mahindra.

Meanwhile, it also creates the question why the foreign car builders in China are reluctant to do big scale export. I'm not saying foreign car builders are NOT exporting from China, but they are not active in export from China. That's true.

The answer is the mandatory JV regulation in China. In China, all the foreign car builders are forced to run its China business via joint venture with a local car company. And the share of foreign side not allowed to be larger than 50%. E.g. Volkswagen, it has two JVs in China, SAIC-VW (SAIC owns 50%, VW owns 50%), and FAW-VW (FAW owns 60%, VW owns 40%). The similar situation applies to ALL foreign OEMs in China.

That being said, if Volkswagen does a large scale export from China, 50%, or even 60% of the profits, would have to be shared with its local partners SAIC or FAW. This is very clearly NO wise choice from the perspective of Volkswagen.

Good analysis, one reason is also because the internal Chinese market is so big, the JV is geared towards servicing this market. India is used by the MNCs as low cost center for small cars, to be exported to third world countries. If we let the foreign car markets to have freedom in ownership, the worlds largest car market would be the most profitable, and they would find incentive to export from China. I hope India realizes this, they have hope because we are not sharing the whole pie with the foreigners, else they won't be able to even export much. Realize most Chinese exports are Chinese branded cars.

You can make your best efforts to educate a cpc reeducation trained guy to educate him but you will always have to repent. You can make them think right.

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. =)

 

[rott]

If you are CPC educated and can not understand my post than how can I help you?

Pls spare me from your help. How can you help me if you think a CPC person knows less than Vedic educated person?

 

[Menthol]

Yes, things are changing very rapidly in the China automobile market. Sometimes even I myself did not expect the Chinese car OEMs could improve that fast.

Car customers are always at the best position to make comments on the cars they bought. Below is a very interesting customer voice assessment done by Autohome.

Quick background: Autohome is the largest online car information forum in China. Many car customers are making posts there regarding performance/quality of the cars they bought. They may make positive comments on their cars (e.g. my car has a powerful engine, or a big cabin space), or negative comments (e.g. my car has a big noise, or high fuel consumption). Autohome collected these online posts and designed an indicator called as: Net Satisfaction Rate, which is defined as (# of positive comments - # of negative comments) / (# of positive comments + # of negative comments). I.e. if a car brand has 100 comments associated to it in total, 60 are positive ones, 40 are negative ones, then its Net Satisfaction Rate is 20%.

Below is the Net Satisfaction Rate result, shown by the brands country groups. I added the translation to it.

The Chinese brands cars owners has the highest satisfaction rate vs. all the rest peer groups. And this explains why the market share of the locals could expand that fast.

View attachment 535582

Is the chart true?

But may be the satisfaction came from people expectation too.

I think people expectation on Japanese and German are quite high. But when they finally bought the car, they are not as good as their expectations.

While for Chinese car, British and American. They are famous for bad quality, but it turns out they are better than the expectations.


But beside of that, Chinese car is getting better and better. I think in 10-20 years from today, Chinese car will start to get recognition on par with Japanese and European car.

From Wulling that I tested, it's actually a good car, if we don't see the price and assumed as the same class as Japanese car. The cheap price makes it a great car.

 

[GS Zhou]

Is the chart true?

this is a true chart, it is derived from the comments after the car purchasing happens, i.e. NOT expectations, but the real likes or dislikes after you really own the car.

Click the link below, you can read the full report.
https://www.autohome.com.cn/news/201802/911208.html?pvareaid=3311700