CATIC targets 300 JF-17 sales in five years

[hurt]

I wonder at what cost they are selling these planes?
How about the infrastructure?
Would the Chinese/Pakistanis help here?
How about ToT?
Who'll provide the spares?
Training?
Engine overhaul, since the RD 93 is Russian?

It is not a problem for china

 

[shuttler]

在现在这个时代如果你认为能发射个近距离空空导弹就能叫做战斗机，那我就认为他是对的。
而且这东西值1500万美元

哪很便宜呀！超值！

Translation：
The price of USD 15 million is cheap for a quality jet！

 

[hurt]

You do not buy extra trainer to do the job... Budget countries always has problem training/converting their fighter pilot. As I mention BUDGET, do not expect them to get the trainer and then fighter varies.

You see CATIC is never interested to develp a 2 seater JF-17. It probably will still come out but not in 1-2yrs time, only years after L-15 captured a significant market.. L-15 is getting operational this end of the year.

L-15 is far more efficient than JL-9 despite a higher price tag but you get
-FBW
-high thrust turbofan which saves fuel
-more advance aerodynamic/LERX
-longer range, higher weapon payload and more hardpoint.

JF-17 utilise a Russian engine, Russian is know hard to please and you are competing with Russia product with JF-17.
L-15 which uses a Ukraine engine will be more business friendly. Ukraine will be more than happy to sell you more engines.
L-15 already has a co-seat, eliminate the trainer option. You are training fighter pilots while at the same time, it can be pressed into attacker/fighter with little cost. You kill 2 birds with a stone.

The Ultimate Cost Saver!!!

J-7G is better than L-15 as a fighter.
I use $1.5 million to buy a J-7G and a K-8 rather than a L-15

 

[ziaulislam]

J-7G is better than L-15 as a fighter.
I use $1.5 million to buy a J-7G and a K-8 rather than a L-15

and thats why L-15 hasnt gotten any order..but F-7 and K-8 sold really well

 

[Zarvan]

China hopes to sell up to 300 Chengdu/Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) JF-17 Thunder fighters in Africa and the Middle East over the next five years.This target was revealed by a spokesman from China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corporation (CATIC), the country’s military aircraft export agency, in an email to Flightglobal.

So far, only Pakistan has ordered the JF-17, with firm orders for 150 examples – Pakistan has said it could buy up to 200. Islamabad is about to equip its third squadron with the type.

“In the next five years, CATIC intends to sell up to 300 JF-17s to several countries in Africa and the Middle East,” says the spokesman.

“CATIC sales and customer support teams are highly motivated and CATIC is looking forward to making the upcoming years fantastic for the JF-17 and its users.”

An industry source in Pakistan who is familiar with the JF-17 programme says joint Chinese/Pakistan sales efforts have made “considerable progress” following the type’s appearance at the Dubai air show in November 2011.

CATIC and PAC mounted a major sales effort at Dubai, bringing three Pakistan air force JF-17s to the show. One example was on display in the static area, while another performed in the flying display – the third was a back-up aircraft. At the show, representatives stressed what they view as the JF-17′s “capability at affordable cost”.

The industry source stresses that marketing efforts for the type are shared equally between China and Pakistan, and notes that the aircraft is built in both countries. While he declined to provide a target number of orders, he did say that discussions are underway with “eight or nine countries”.

“They have indicated rough numbers,” he says. “Some want more, some want less.”

Countries regarded as possible buyers include the Democratic Republic of Congo, Nigeria, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Venezuela and Turkey. Serbia is also reportedly considering the type for its fighter requirement.

Though the type’s engine, the Klimov RD-93, is produced in Russia, the Pakistani official does not see this being an obstacle to sales because most prospective JF-17 customers have good relations with Russia.

“Doubt has never been cast on the aircraft’s engine,” he says.

Pakistan should first develop Block 2 and than get these plane we need to Block 2 to be considered a good fighting force and also to damage our enemies in case of war

 

[hurt]

and thats why L-15 hasnt gotten any order..but F-7 and K-8 sold really well

No,you are wrong.

L-15 is a new Advanced Jet Trainer for big air Force from 2010. Its have lots time

Small air force have no Demand of Advanced Jet Trainer with small air force.

Its maybe a good choice to tranning jf-17 Pilot in Squadron

 

[itaskol]

to train a JF17 pilot is very hard.
we have to develop a twin seat version of JF 17.
I think after we develop a twin seat version of JF 17, it will has better future selling chance.

 

[farhan_9909]

to train a JF17 pilot is very hard.
we have to develop a twin seat version of JF 17.
I think after we develop a twin seat version of JF 17, it will has better future selling chance.

Underdevelopment.expected within 2-3 years

February 15, 2012

The Chengdu works of Avic’s combat aircraft subsidiary is developing a two-seat version of the JF-17 Thunder fighter in cooperation with the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, say Chinese industry executives.

The two-seater will be adaptable for conversion training and combat roles, they say, though as a fighter it will not perform as well as the single-seat version. The JF-17 is being built in a joint program with Pakistan for the Pakistan Air Force. The program, which began, unusually, without a conversion trainer, will deliver about 100 JF-17s to Pakistan, the executives say.

Avic, Pakistan Working On JF-17 Two-Seater

 

[hurt]

哪很便宜呀！超值！

Translation：
The price of USD 15 million is cheap for a quality jet！

对于一个需要用教练机充当战斗机的小国来说，1500万就是天价

 

[ziaulislam]

No,you are wrong.

L-15 is a new Advanced Jet Trainer for big air Force from 2010. Its have lots time

Small air force have no Demand of Advanced Jet Trainer with small air force.

Its maybe a good choice to tranning jf-17 Pilot in Squadron

even when it was introduced it lost to k-8
problem is L-15 is very advance fighter jet, countries who would procure it are those which would need it for advance chinese fighters..so unless J-10 and JF-17 catches a huge market share thats not possible, as other AJT will beat L-15 like BAE hawk and T-50 goldeneagle of korea
in case of JF-17, smaller countries woouldnt go for L-15 even if they procure Thunder

 

[hurt]

even when it was introduced it lost to k-8
problem is L-15 is very advance fighter jet, countries who would procure it are those which would need it for advance chinese fighters..so unless J-10 and JF-17 catches a huge market share thats not possible, as other AJT will beat L-15 like BAE hawk and T-50 goldeneagle of korea
in case of JF-17, smaller countries woouldnt go for L-15 even if they procure Thunder

L-15 is not only for chinese fighter.

It will beat M-346 ,T-50 Golden Eagle and Yak-130 .

 

[Windjammer]

Agreed! But check out the countries that have bought these Chinese aircraft. Except for North Korea, Egypt and Pakistan, no other country has ever fought a war or taken part in any aerial combat! They are small nations who don't expect to go to war either. And needless to say, they can't afford the newfangled and more sophisticated aerial platforms.

That's a lame argument, for the same effort, one could ask, when did countries like Sweden, Switzerland or even Australia fought an air war.....similarly countries like UAE, Oman, Qatar and even Saudi Arabia are spending Billions on equipping their air arms without any past air combat under their belts. The bottom line is China has steadily also built an arms market for it's equipment....and that was with some old products and with the l J-10 and soon the likes of J-31 and J-20 coming off the production lines, one can be certain that the main players must be feeling uneasy. !!

 

[shuttler]

对于一个需要用教练机充当战斗机的小国来说，1500万就是天价

用1500万去买西方飞机的引擎都不够，他们还有什么可说的

15 million is not even enough for the western made engines. how can they say much about the price？

 

[hurt]

用1500万去买西方飞机的引擎都不够，他们还有什么可说的

15 million is not even enough for the western made engines. how can they say much about the price？

说不说不要紧，人家可以不买，买也只能买更便宜更实用的，所以把1500万美元的高教当轻型战斗机基本上就是扯淡。穷国买不起，富国用不上

They can do not buy it.They need more cheap and useful fighter.
Its only a joke what buy a so Expensive trainer as a fighter .
poor Army not enough money to buy it, rich army can buy more powerful fighter

 

[SQ8]

Agreed! But check out the countries that have bought these Chinese aircraft. Except for North Korea, Egypt and Pakistan, no other country has ever fought a war or taken part in any aerial combat! They are small nations who don't expect to go to war either. And needless to say, they can't afford the newfangled and more sophisticated aerial platforms.

Not exactly the best argument, F-6 and F-7 variants from China have taken part on combat through the airforces of Iran ,Sri Lanka and Albania. And in all cases they were used for a variety of ground attack and interception missions and performed well.

So the combat record does exist. Moreover, as Windjammer has pointed out, there are other airforces that have much more sophisticated platforms that may never use them in anger. That does not degrade the manufacturing countries potential or the platforms. for eg, a long while the Rafale was never considered seriously and its export potential was pooh-pooed all over the military export circle. Even though the aircraft had proven itself in exercises it was not until it actually demonstrated itself in combat when its capabilities were taken seriously.
In a more relevant example.. the Mig-25 was assumed to be a superfighter until it was found that it had infact a very focused and limited potential. And again, due to the secrecy of the Iron curtain.. the sophistication of the Su-27 was not known until the aircraft was actually exported to nations where the west could evaluate them and get an accurate assessments.

The advantage that Pakistan offers to China in terms of acting as a spokesperson for its equipment is immense. The PAF is not a banana republic or tiny airforce that has little idea on how to fly and fight. Its opinion is trusted worldwide, so if the Chinese send a piece of equipment to Pakistan .. the value becomes immediately clear.
Not only that, PAF has exchange personnel throughout its command regardless of the diplomatic conditions and the RAF never stopped sending its exchange pilots even during the 90's.
Even if they do not get flight time on the Chinese birds, they do get flight time on birds that go into DACT with them.
Hence they too are a second testament to the capability of either the aircraft or the professionalism that goes into evaluating them.

So if the PAF has put faith in Chinese equipment, it knows the workarounds for them.
The initial impression for F-7P's for eg was fairly bad.. the aircraft were considered in the same line as the F-6 as extremely crude and unreliable. That feedback got sent to the Chinese, along with some material on the standards the PAF expects out of the airframe ,engines and avionics.. The result was the MP variant which has much better reliability as compared to the baseline along with generally better avionics.

The JF-17 is a different game, it is not a custom order to the CHinese.. the PAF has been involved in the design and manufacture of this aircraft from the final blueprints to the last screw(there is a post I have written on the process in the JF-17 section for those who have queries or smart alec comments.. please stick to that and not bring it up here.. use the search function and dont be lazy). So the standards it expects(which are to be as close to the F-16 as possible) are blended into the design and manufacture of the jet. This process also takes a few tries to get right.. but at this stage things are proceeding smoothly.

The problem with exports for China is the now proverbial "Great wall Curtain".. which like the Iron curtain before it.. only lets selective information out and most are left guessing on the actual capabilities of the aircraft.
Moreover, China does not have a good reputation for manufacturing(and marketing) quality..so it has a reputation to get rid of and actually show the world that it can deliver world class equipment.
The problem with that is the Chinese manufacturing and development system that was so geared towards quantity and reverse engineering that it has been difficult changing that gear. But it is happening slowly.
If anyone has grandparents who lived in the 30's and 40's.. please ask them what was the term "Japani Maal" used for..
The Japanese had a similar reputation as the Chinese for mass producing cheap and copied goods.
Today, that very "japani maal" is considered one of the best and most reliable..perhaps even more than western equipment.
and the world had to come to accept that... the same will happen here.. the world will eventually realize that the China ten years from now is not the China five years ago.