Can we make Su-30MKI as stealthier as Su-35 with Russia?

[Skull and Bones]

doesn't make sense ,no country can support all 5th gen A/C in its inventory forget about India....

Presently the price is the only concern for many countries, and there's only one contender in the line-up(The F-35), so the delay of procuring is obvious.
This scenario will change with the coming of Pak Fa and J-20, since these birds won't come with strings attached.
And stealth being the primary weapon of stealth aircraft, they have serious payload limitations.

 

[Trichy]

I think we atleast reduce it rcs like Su-35 with cockpit and radar is good for it till it servers IAF

 

[Skull and Bones]

Hello, i posted the link somewhere in one thread, now im not getting that link about it..

By the way mind your language

Let it go man!
Show generosity, that's what we are famous for

 

[rockstarIN]

Let it go man!
Show generosity, that's what we are famous for

okie...

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Hello, i posted the link somewhere in one thread, now im not getting that link about it..

By the way mind your language

Here is the definition of economy of scale with your source

When the cost of producing an additional unit of output of a good or service decreases as the volume of output (the scale of production) increases, this is referred to as an economy of scale.

Sound familiar?

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Let it go man!
Show generosity, that's what we are famous for

Look up economy of sale and then economy of scale. Look at the whole results page instead of picking the first thing you see like Rockstar. Tell me which one describes;

The cost of producing an additional unit of output of a good or service decreases as the volume of output (the scale of production) increases, this is referred to as an economy of scale.

Being generous with false information is useless.

 

[rockstarIN]

Here is the definition of economy of scale with your source

When the cost of producing an additional unit of output of a good or service decreases as the volume of output (the scale of production) increases, this is referred to as an economy of scale.

Sound familiar?

Read the full stuff what I have quoted...

In addition, the average cost per booklet will actually decrease. In this example, if 200 students enrol for the course, the average cost per booklet will be ZAR 15.00 (total costs of ZAR 3,000 divided by 200 students). If 800 students are registered, the average cost per booklet will fall to less than ZAR 6.00 (total costs of ZAR 4,600 divided by 800 students).

Sorry Skull & Bones

 

[Skull and Bones]

@Rockstar
After not so intense research i came to the conclusion that its economy of scale
In your example the total cost is fixed, which is not the case in the topic we are discussing about.
Here we have to pay for the raw materials, labor costs and many other things, the total cost is capped here
regards

 

[sancho]

Can we make Su-30MKI as stealthier as Su-35 with Russia?

During the upgrade can we make the Su-30MKI as much stealthier close to Su-35? I say just close not as of Su-35. Any possible is there?

Not equal to Su 35BM, because one of the main differences is, that the Su 35 is a single seat fighter, while our MKI twin seat. So even if we make the same chages as they did (using more composites and RAM materials, deleting canards and some other external parts), MKI still would have slightly bigger RCS then the Su 35.
We also have to keep in mind that this is not an MLU, those fighters are hardly 10 years old and the upgrade focus on some life extentions and mainly on increasing capabilities (AESA instead of PESA, new avionics and weapons). I don't expect that many things on the airframe itself will be changed and the only reason why the engine would be replaced, should be the higher need of power for AESA radars.

The MLU instead, should be around 2020 and by that time we already have FGFA, which means we could try to get some commonality of materials, techs and weapons. For example, we will have the ne AL 41 by then, which could be integrated into MKI as well, just like weapons, or some avionics, but most interesting imo would be an internal weapon bay between the engines, comparable to the FGFA weapon bays. A load of 4 missiles (similar to F15SE) would be enough to give MKI a big RCS reduction, by the fact that it carries no external loads anymore.
Also interesting could be the all moving tail fins of FGFA, that are angled and don't reflect radar waves like the once MKI has now. If they, or new one base on them, could be integrated at MKI, the overall RCS would be dramatically reduced.

 

[rockstarIN]

@Rockstar
After not so intense research i came to the conclusion that its economy of scale
In your example the total cost is fixed, which is not the case in the topic we are discussing about.
Here we have to pay for the raw materials, labor costs and many other things, the total cost is capped here
regards

Its a TOT boss, license fee is fixed, have to pay Russia ha ha..

Even I do not countering his economy of scale, that too is correct in any situation, forget about planes even in mass producing any stuff.

 

[baker]

to fight with our neighbors.. current road map is enough and more....
and practically it is not possible to make MKI stealthy.. if we tried to do it will be entirely different fighter...

and AFAIK MKI is gonna act as mini AWACS with its strong radar while fulcrums and mirages will strike deep inside enemy territory.. so being stealthy doesnt matter ....

 

[Skull and Bones]

Its a TOT boss, license fee is fixed, have to pay Russia ha ha..

Even I do not countering his economy of scale, that too is correct in any situation, forget about planes even in mass producing any stuff.

License fee is fixed for the signed number of aircraft, exceeding that number we'll have to pay extra loyalty.
You forgot the raw material, labor, servicing costs which will have to be incurred by us additional to the license fee.
Maybe you are not getting something in between.

 

[typhoon77]

The MLU instead, should be around 2020 and by that time we already have FGFA, which means we could try to get some commonality of materials, techs and weapons. For example, we will have the ne AL 41 by then, which could be integrated into MKI as well, just like weapons, or some avionics, but most interesting imo would be an internal weapon bay between the engines, comparable to the FGFA weapon bays. A load of 4 missiles (similar to F15SE) would be enough to give MKI a big RCS reduction, by the fact that it carries no external loads anymore.
Also interesting could be the all moving tail fins of FGFA, that are angled and don't reflect radar waves like the once MKI has now. If they, or new one base on them, could be integrated at MKI, the overall RCS would be dramatically reduced.

New tech can definelty be integrated into the MKI ( new IRST, Missiles, Radar etc). The problem is that the internal weapons bay is going to partially ruin the MKI's aerodynamics. The reason the layout of the MKI is like that, same with PAK-FA is that the design generates a lot of lift for the airplane. IF you added the internal weapons bay you would reduce the lift. I don't know if you could compensate with more powerful engines. etc.

 

[sancho]

New tech can definelty be integrated into the MKI ( new IRST, Missiles, Radar etc). The problem is that the internal weapons bay is going to partially ruin the MKI's aerodynamics. The reason the layout of the MKI is like that, same with PAK-FA is that the design generates a lot of lift for the airplane. IF you added the internal weapons bay you would reduce the lift. I don't know if you could compensate with more powerful engines. etc.

I know about the lift, that's why I suggested a weapon bay for AAMs only, not A2G weapons. That reduces the debt of the bay and would look similar to T50 bay and as you can see on the following pic, even the bigger R27 don't reach half of the air intake dept, which means lift shouldn't be a problem. The R77 will get folding wings, to be used in internal weapon bays of Pak Fa, so they should fit even better:

 

[Kinetic]

Well said sancho.

Without internal weapon bays any talk of anything remotely stealthy is ridiculous.

No. The biggest RCS comes from the MKI not the weapons. Thats why EFT/Rafale have less RCS than MKI though they don't have internal weapon bay. Reducing the RCS will greatly help to reduced detection range by the enemy not complete stealth like F-15SE.

Thats a bloody 100 million + price tag....

Our newest MKI costs 62.5 million.