Boko Haram leader: Kidnapped girls married, converted to Islam

[WAJsal]

Don't feed the trolls, they just here to derail with hindu BJP techniques.

nailed it brother

 

[karan.1970]

thats not muslims there is a specific term for them so called muslims again reached a conclusion

Who decides who is a muslim and who is not ? You ?

 

[TankMan]

A sincere question - What Islam says about leaving the faith?

From a religious point of view, apostates will be punished in the afterlife/day of judgement and will not go to heaven. Nothing else.

The main rule about hadith and other sources of Islamic knowledge is that it can not contradict what is in the Quran, which clearly says there is no compulsion in religion, so any other source that contradicts the Quran is not authentic. That means we can not force someone to accept Islam or not leave Islam.
Furthermore, the Quran also says : "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve........" [18:29].

I know many people believe the punishment is death. The problem is that people fail to understand that before, Islam was not only a religion but also a community/society/state (e.g: Mosques were used as parliaments, schools etc), not to mention there was regular conflict and warfare between muslims and non muslims. So, someone leaving Islam in those times would be akin to what treason is today. Otherwise, there is no basis in Islamic texts to justify killing of apostates for being apostates (or for 'treason'). It's simply not in the religion.

 

[gambit]

From a religious point of view, apostates will be punished in the afterlife/day of judgement and will not go to heaven. Nothing else.

The main rule about hadith and other sources of Islamic knowledge is that it can not contradict what is in the Quran, which clearly says there is no compulsion in religion, so any other source that contradicts the Quran is not authentic. That means we can not force someone to accept Islam or not leave Islam.
Furthermore, the Quran also says : "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve........" [18:29].

I know many people believe the punishment is death. The problem is that people fail to understand that before, Islam was not only a religion but also a community/society/state (e.g: Mosques were used as parliaments, schools etc), not to mention there was regular conflict and warfare between muslims and non muslims. So, someone leaving Islam in those times would be akin to what treason is today. Otherwise, there is no basis in Islamic texts to justify killing of apostates for being apostates (or for 'treason'). It's simply not in the religion.

We have heard this argument before and it does not make what the Muslims are doing to apostates any more palatable. If Allah -- if he exists in the first place -- is going to deal with apostates, then let him, and only him, deal with such people. The Muslims in this life should have no business with apostates at all, other than to try to convince them to say. But I guess that would be too difficult to do.

I have said this many times before: That perceptions of a religion are based upon observations of the behaviors of the believers of said religion.

Observers do not care if a certain behavior or tradition inside the religious community predate the religion or not. As long as that certain behavior or tradition is practiced by the believers, observers will associate that behavior or tradition to the religion. That is human nature. You can quote Islam's philosophy about benevolence towards apostates all day long but until there is a massive change in attitude in your community, the killings of apostates will continue to be associated with Islam.

Killing someone is the ultimate act of power over that person. Life -- the most precious -- is taken away. Threatening someone that you would take his/her life away from him and you will elicit either resistance or compliance. Do you really believe the imams in your religion are horrified at the way the Muslims treat apostates ? If you do, I have a bridge in Brooklyn, New York, to sell to you at a bargain. Or some beach front properties in Nevada and Kansas also at bargain prices.

 

[TankMan]

We have heard this argument before and it does not make what the Muslims are doing to apostates any more palatable. If Allah -- if he exists in the first place -- is going to deal with apostates, then let him, and only him, deal with such people. The Muslims in this life should have no business with apostates at all, other than to try to convince them to say. But I guess that would be too difficult to do.

I have said this many times before: That perceptions of a religion are based upon observations of the behaviors of the believers of said religion.

Observers do not care if a certain behavior or tradition inside the religious community predate the religion or not. As long as that certain behavior or tradition is practiced by the believers, observers will associate that behavior or tradition to the religion. That is human nature. You can quote Islam's philosophy about benevolence towards apostates all day long but until there is a massive change in attitude in your community, the killings of apostates will continue to be associated with Islam.

Killing someone is the ultimate act of power over that person. Life -- the most precious -- is taken away. Threatening someone that you would take his/her life away from him and you will elicit either resistance or compliance. Do you really believe the imams in your religion are horrified at the way the Muslims treat apostates ? If you do, I have a bridge in Brooklyn, New York, to sell to you at a bargain. Or some beach front properties in Nevada and Kansas also at bargain prices.

. If Allah -- if he exists in the first place -- is going to deal with apostates, then let him, and only him, deal with such people. The Muslims in this life should have no business with apostates at all, other than to try to convince them to say.

Firstly, Allah is the Arabic word for the same God that Christians and Jews worship, so you can just call him God. And what do you think I was trying to say in my previous post? I was saying exactly, EXACTLY what you have said here. That's what Muslims SHOULD do and I strongly condemn anyone who does the opposite.

I have said this many times before: That perceptions of a religion are based upon observations of the behaviors of the believers of said religion.

Then why is it that Christians are not seen as violent invaders? The USA is a country with a majority Christian population. Does America not get credit for being Christian when it invades Iraq over nothing and kills 2 million people in response to the deaths of a couple of thousand? Even when its leader claimed he was on a mission from God? The difference is that they have a huge military, lots of money and plenty of lying politicians. The Muslims? They only have their religion, so they twist it to suit their own needs.
Do not confuse political behavior for the behavior of normal Muslims. But then, yes, we do have many non-Political Muslim nutjobs. Just like every other religion.

a massive change in attitude in your community, the killings of apostates will continue to be associated with Islam.

Please do give me advice in causing this massive change in attitude. I agree with that, Muslims need to get their shit together, but what will demonizing Muslims on the internet help with?

Do you really believe the imams in your religion are horrified at the way the Muslims treat apostates ?

Any Imams who support killing apostates are not my Imams, I do not follow them and I do not consider them my religious leaders. They should condemn it.

If you do, I have a bridge in Brooklyn, New York, to sell to you at a bargain. Or some beach front properties in Nevada and Kansas also at bargain prices.

I felt a bit tempted to lie that I do believe, that bridge would be really useful If I started charging people for passing over it

 

[gambit]

Firstly, Allah is the Arabic word for the same God that Christians and Jews worship, so you can just call him God. And what do you think I was trying to say in my previous post? I was saying exactly, EXACTLY what you have said here. That's what Muslims SHOULD do and I strongly condemn anyone who does the opposite.

You are in the minority, buddy.

Then why is it that Christians are not seen as violent invaders? The USA is a country with a majority Christian population. Does America not get credit for being Christian when it invades Iraq over nothing and kills 2 million people in response to the deaths of a couple of thousand? Even when its leader claimed he was on a mission from God? The difference is that they have a huge military, lots of money and plenty of lying politicians. The Muslims? They only have their religion, so they twist it to suit their own needs.
Do not confuse political behavior for the behavior of normal Muslims. But then, yes, we do have many non-Political Muslim nutjobs. Just like every other religion.

What a ridiculous argument.

When the US invaded Iraq, it was a political act, the same as when Iraq invaded Kuwait. Regardless of what Bush may have said about God, everyone in the world saw it exactly that -- a political act. And you think the Muslims do not have their militaries and lying politicians ?

What I said about perceptions remains true. The Chinese, the Africans, the Russians, and just about every where else do not perceive the invasion of Iraq to be a 'Christian' act because it was not. It was an act between political states, not religious ones. But you and any of your fellow Muslims are free to form your own perceptions about the invasion of Iraq. Just understand that you will be in the minority about those perceptions like you are in the minority Muslims that condemns slavery.

Please do give me advice in causing this massive change in attitude. I agree with that, Muslims need to get their shit together, but what will demonizing Muslims on the internet help with?

You guys believe any criticisms to be 'demonizing' in the first place, so what is the point ? But even if you are able to separate legitimate criticisms from pure slander, are you insisting that all slander and demonizing must stop before the Muslims will begin the process of getting their shit together ?

No...The proper response is to act INDEPENDENT of what others perceive say, legitimate criticisms and slander, about Muslims and Islam. If what I said about perceptions are based upon observations are true, then assuming that once the Muslims reformed themselves, those perceptions will change. If it is human nature to form perceptions, it is equally human nature to reform them.

 

[Green Arrow]

Another self proclaimed servants of Islam. Sad indeed

 

[Mugwop]

Irrelevant post mate. Ask for clarifications if you are not able to comprehend instead of passing judgements.

No one is passing judgments here accept you.I just gave you friendly advice either stick to the topic or leave.

 

[terry5]

Right now this is sad. But this will get hilarious when their kids will one day taunt me how they ruled me for a thousand years...

Conversion did happen by the sword but our sword fires shot after shot if you know what i mean

Love Jihad for centuries baby .,(Irresistable forfathers for the sweeties loving the sword we love you too babys always have always will
Hindu women satisfaction conversion is what we call it .

 

[TankMan]

You are in the minority, buddy.

I do not believe that to be true. There is a huge amount of Muslims who do not know what the Quran says and just listen to whatever their misinformed maulvis tell them. It's a really bad flaw in many Muslims, makes them too gullible and brainwash-able. But that's not the majority.

it was a political act

Exactly my point. Same with all the Muslim terrorists. Al Qaeda bombing the WTC was a political act, same with the Taliban, ISIS and Boko Haram. It's their strategy. Regardless of whatever they said about Jihad and Allah. What, you think the leaders genuinely believe they are obeying God? The soldiers might but the leaders definitely know what they're really doing. Whoever believes otherwise is really naive.

Why is it that 'regardless of what Bush said', America's killing is all political but Muslims' (political) killing is suddenly proof that Islam is evil?

you are in the minority Muslims that condemns slavery

Seriously? Tell me one thing, how long have you spent living in a Muslim country among Muslims? For me, it's a couple of decades and that is news to me. Who told you Muslims agree to slavery? That's absurd.
Islam came at a time when slavery was commonplace and unrestricted. Islam regulated it and placed some proper restrictions. It did not make it compulsory, nor did it encourage it in any way.

You guys believe any criticisms to be 'demonizing' in the first place, so what is the point ?

Criticize us all you want but the stereotypical portrayal of Muslims in the media is demonizing. The portrayal of Islam as if it's some problem that needs to be removed is incredibly antagonizing. If you give legitimate criticism of Muslims, I'd be glad to hear it. I do it myself all the time.

are you insisting that all slander and demonizing must stop before the Muslims will begin the process of getting their shit together

No, I am saying it doesn't help. When educated Muslims who understand English watch Western news, read their articles or make the mistake of reading YouTube comments see all the demonizing, misconceptions and flat-out lies, they feel something. They feel antagonized, as if the whole world hates them and hates their way of life. Seriously, just imagine everywhere you go, all you hear is that your way of life, your set of beliefs, is a problem for the world.
It has different effects on different people. For me, well, I took to blaming Muslims for it, while being extremely sceptical of the west and it's people.

Some people may start hating the west entirely, or start believing terrorist propaganda. Almost no one will actually consider leaving Islam (no, not because of apostasy laws) because since childhood Muslims are taught to believe that Islam is good, that Islam promotes good things like Charity and Peace and that Islam condemns bad things and suddenly they're exposed to the fact that the entire world hates them for it.
however, living in the West for a while shows a completely different thing. I'm sure the same is true the other way around.

What I'm saying is that it definitely does not help that you people are actually supporting the terrorists' narrative that the whole world is against Islam. As for Muslims getting their shit together, it'll take a long while. At the moment it's too politicized. The 'religious leaders'' are divided on everything, it seems like they don't care about religion and are more interested in political shit-shovelling.
Then we have the problem of people actually listening to them instead of the Quran, Hadiths and Common Sense.

The proper response is to act INDEPENDENT of what others perceive say, legitimate criticisms and slander, about Muslims and Islam

Again, the keyword is 'proper'. Nothing is 'proper' with the modern Muslim community. You can spend all day talking about what SHOULD be done but thinking about HOW it should be done is harder.

 

[elszADaQ]

I don't think this terrorist dogs can be deterred from doing such a horrific thing unless their spouses, daughters, mothers get raped in the same manner they did to those innocent girls. An eye for an eye is the only solution.

 

[TSA321]

This group clearly needs to be exterminated.

 

[karan.1970]

No one is passing judgments here accept you.I just gave you friendly advice either stick to the topic or leave.

What judgement do you think I am passing ?

 

[gambit]

I do not believe that to be true. There is a huge amount of Muslims who do not know what the Quran says and just listen to whatever their misinformed maulvis tell them. It's a really bad flaw in many Muslims, makes them too gullible and brainwash-able. But that's not the majority.

You have your perception. I have mine.

Exactly my point. Same with all the Muslim terrorists. Al Qaeda bombing the WTC was a political act, same with the Taliban, ISIS and Boko Haram. It's their strategy. Regardless of whatever they said about Jihad and Allah. What, you think the leaders genuinely believe they are obeying God? The soldiers might but the leaders definitely know what they're really doing. Whoever believes otherwise is really naive.

Why is it that 'regardless of what Bush said', America's killing is all political but Muslims' (political) killing is suddenly proof that Islam is evil?

It is difficult for observers in the world to accept that especially 'Allahu Akbar' is the constant reminder to observers as to what/who motivate beheadings.

Seriously? Tell me one thing, how long have you spent living in a Muslim country among Muslims? For me, it's a couple of decades and that is news to me. Who told you Muslims agree to slavery? That's absurd.
Islam came at a time when slavery was commonplace and unrestricted. Islam regulated it and placed some proper restrictions. It did not make it compulsory, nor did it encourage it in any way.

Like you said earlier that a 'huge amount' of Muslims are 'brainwash-able'.

Did the Quran said women are forbidden to drive ? No. But enough imams interpreted the Quran to declare that the ban for women drivers is the will of Allah. The result: An entire country -- Saudi Arabia -- enact laws to forbid women from driving cars.

The Muslims argued that the burqa is not Islamic, but enough imams said it is. The result: An entire country -- Afghanistan -- forced the burqa on women.

Criticize us all you want but the stereotypical portrayal of Muslims in the media is demonizing. The portrayal of Islam as if it's some problem that needs to be removed is incredibly antagonizing. If you give legitimate criticism of Muslims, I'd be glad to hear it. I do it myself all the time.

No, I am saying it doesn't help. When educated Muslims who understand English watch Western news, read their articles or make the mistake of reading YouTube comments see all the demonizing, misconceptions and flat-out lies, they feel something. They feel antagonized, as if the whole world hates them and hates their way of life. Seriously, just imagine everywhere you go, all you hear is that your way of life, your set of beliefs, is a problem for the world.
It has different effects on different people. For me, well, I took to blaming Muslims for it, while being extremely sceptical of the west and it's people.

Some people may start hating the west entirely, or start believing terrorist propaganda. Almost no one will actually consider leaving Islam (no, not because of apostasy laws) because since childhood Muslims are taught to believe that Islam is good, that Islam promotes good things like Charity and Peace and that Islam condemns bad things and suddenly they're exposed to the fact that the entire world hates them for it.
however, living in the West for a while shows a completely different thing. I'm sure the same is true the other way around.

What I'm saying is that it definitely does not help that you people are actually supporting the terrorists' narrative that the whole world is against Islam. As for Muslims getting their shit together, it'll take a long while. At the moment it's too politicized. The 'religious leaders'' are divided on everything, it seems like they don't care about religion and are more interested in political shit-shovelling.
Then we have the problem of people actually listening to them instead of the Quran, Hadiths and Common Sense.

Why is it our burden to help you ? This issue -- the abduction of young girls and forced conversion -- came from the Muslims, not us. We do not care if it is 'Quranic' or 'Islamic' or not. This is YOUR community. Not ours. Must you like us before you can act to clean up your shit ?

Again, the keyword is 'proper'. Nothing is 'proper' with the modern Muslim community. You can spend all day talking about what SHOULD be done but thinking about HOW it should be done is harder.

That is YOUR problem. Not ours.

 

[TankMan]

You have your perception. I have mine.

What is your perception based on? Mine is based on experience living with Muslims for most of my life. If yours is based on Media or isolated incidents, well, consider looking from another perspective.

It is difficult for observers in the world to accept that especially 'Allahu Akbar' is the constant reminder to observers as to what/who motivate beheadings.

Yet it is perfectly ok for these observers in the world that the invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with religious beliefs even after the leader of the nation carrying out said invasion explicitly said so. Must be some really naive and/or hypocritical observers.

Like you said earlier that a 'huge amount' of Muslims are 'brainwash-able'.

It's not because they are Muslims. It's because they are uneducated.

Did the Quran said women are forbidden to drive ? No. But enough imams interpreted the Quran to declare that the ban for women drivers is the will of Allah. The result: An entire country -- Saudi Arabia -- enact laws to forbid women from driving cars.

I can not even imagine what sort of moron one has to be to think that women are forbidden to drive, even more of a moron to actually agree to make that a law. It is impossible to fathom what goes on in the pea-sized brains of whatever 'imams' have done such stuff. It's retarded, pure and simple and has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. There is no basis in any of Islam's texts or sources for this ruling against women driving. Muslim women during the Holy Prophet's time used to ride camels and horses. If it was forbidden, he would have said something. So it's not forbidden, which is probably the reason it is perfectly allowed in every Muslim country except Saudi Arabia.

The Muslims argued that the burqa is not Islamic, but enough imams said it is. The result: An entire country -- Afghanistan -- forced the burqa on women.

You are wrong about this one. It wasn't 'enough Imams'. It was the extremist Taliban who took over the government, thanks to the support from the US of A.
Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Women in Afghanistan: the back story | Amnesty International UK

Why is it our burden to help you? This issue -- the abduction of young girls and forced conversion -- came from the Muslims, not us. We do not care if it is 'Quranic' or 'Islamic' or not. This is YOUR community. Not ours. Must you like us before you can act to clean up your shit ?

It is not your burden to help us. It is just a matter of being good human beings and not making things worse.

If you want to continue making matters worse, antagonizing 1.7 billion people and politically supporting some terrorists while attacking others, at the very least stop it with the whole 'Holier than thou' attitude.

Must you like us before you can act to clean up your shit ?

First of all, what 'act' are you talking about? Isn't Nigeria launching multiple military operations against Boko Haram an act, an attempt to solve the problem?
Nigeria leader vows 'total war' on Boko Haram - Africa - Al Jazeera English
Clashes Between Boko Haram And Nigerian Army Rage On Despite Ceasefire Reports
What do you want ME to do? Should I start running around the globe fighting terrorists? I would If I could. You think we Muslims do not wish every day, every moment of our lives that we could solve our problems? Do you think I wouldn't try to solve the problems with Muslims if I could?
Right now all I can do is talk to people, share my opinions on Social Media and try to be vocal and that's what I am already doing. Remember all the antagonizing I was talking about? 'YOUR' 'you' 'your shit'. That's what I'm talking about.
If I was not posting all this stuff, I'd become part of some 'silent majority' that secretly supports ISIS and Terrorism.
We Muslims just can't win now can we? Damned if we do damned if we don't.

That is YOUR problem. Not ours.

Then why are you posting here? If you don't want it to be discussed with you, why are you talking about it? You come here acting all 'we are better than you', passing criticism and suddenly getting offended when someone asks you to give an actual suggestion?
I am interested in what a 'progressive, liberal and open-minded' westerner would propose to solve these issues, except for nuking the Muslim World out of existence, we've already seen that little gem.