'Baseless rhetoric about Pakistan totally unacceptable': foreign secy tells US ambassador

[YeBeWarned]

I have a feeling that things will get more awkward in coming weeks between Pakistan and USA, At least to the extent of Twitter, but there is always behind the door diplomacy which remain harmless between Pentagon and GHQ .

 

[Hellfire]

bus dil toot gya . yaar hum ab trolling bhi nhi ker sakty ? ok i go to evening walk on beach no benifit to sit here

Sirji, ab yehaan bhi dil toot gaya!

Didn't mean that. Very few posters around with who I can interact and get some sense and something new to learn. Was in that mode.

Like i said whether we can afford it or not is a moot point when US will do it anyway. Just look at the steps Trump administration has taken so far, where do you think they all are leading too? Besides it still just not justify as to why we should allow US transit free of cost?

But seeing Trump administration's actions are quite frequently in opposition to his tweets, would it not be another of his ploy to wrangle some concessions from Pakistan? After all, he is a self acclaimed deal maker.

As for transit through US, didn't Gen Musharraf claim that the US had threatened to bomb Pakistan if it did not cooperate? If that was the case, what, in your opinion, has changed today? Would you not ascribe this 'free transit' as a (un)willing participation in US efforts?

Nobody holds anything on us, rest assured. Relationships is not a zero sum game. If that were the case that dont you think Pakistan would had joined Yemen war long ago?

Not entering Yemen was one of the boldest and wisest moves by Pakistan. I have no doubt about it. But, as for the bold, I would not be so brash so as to make such a claim.

CPEC remains an issue, with even your Government having tried to re-negotiate as per open sources. If the cynics are allowed space, the recent TLP dharna was supposedly 'managed' by what I call "the sixth dimension' of Governance in Pakistan (World Bank has listed five), and reportedly as a reminder to Imran Khan led GoP that all external affairs need to be cleared with them. The recent statement of the PM on U-Turns, seems to lend a certain credence to this, especially when reportedly PRC told him to re-negotiate with respective firms and also was not enthusiastic on underwriting loans.

That brings me to the Saudi equation. They do, to a large extent, call the shots. You may not have entered Yemen militarily, but you do have other ways of helping, which, I am sure, you are doing.

Wrong! It shall remain so until Pakistan wants it so, nobody else. Mind it. The weakest and the corruptest government of all manage to block it till US officially apologized, today its an altogether different story. You dont see it yet but those who matter know that Pakistan isnt the same as it was 17 years ago despite all our financial woes.

I agree, US apologised. But to claim Pakistan is not the same, will not only be a stretch, but an exaggeration. Your economic woes are only about to get worse. Or you will further lose traction in your foreign policy as Saudis will be bankrolled by US to ensure you do their bidding.

It is all politics, at the end of the day.

 

[IceCold]

There's a difference... When US tells Pakistan it does via twitter but when Pakistan does something similar, it's MoFA talks it out with ambassador.



I don't know much about the discussions of MoFA and US ambassador, but the response of IK was like, as CIA have written the counter tweets on behalf of IK.
Tweets of IK simply endorsed to whatever US has been saying until today, which were always disputed by Pakistan.
Best ever response US ever had from Pakistan was from Chaudary Nisar.
Tweets of IK contradicts to what Chaudary Nisar has been saying about US aid.
His tweets deliberately triggered the disputed issue of Bin Laden.
His tweets endorse various other US propaganda versions.

In simple words.... IK IS A WRONG NUMBER

Your definition of wrong number the world does not agree with you, here is how IK's remarks were published by all international media

http://www.insaf.pk/public/insafpk/...JTBc683LBkLpYQyT3k9vngz5h30rLqWZIgJJb1WgO7JBI

When was the last time this happened? As for Ch Nisar, he is a joker being part of a joker and most corrupt government who no one took seriously. Try to grasp the reality beyond your hate for PM.

 

[IceCold]

Sirji, ab yehaan bhi dil toot gaya!

Didn't mean that. Very few posters around with who I can interact and get some sense and something new to learn. Was in that mode.

Yar Imran sb ko trolling kerna do, we can have the serious discussion.

But seeing Trump administration's actions are quite frequently in opposition to his tweets, would it not be another of his ploy to wrangle some concessions from Pakistan? After all, he is a self acclaimed deal maker.

This is my contention even with the Pakistani posters who say PM should not have hit back? I say why not? Pakistan has allowed for far too long for others to riducle, insult us in the public even if backdoor channels said something else. Enough of this. Either we did nothing for the US and we are the real enemy and in that case declare us as such or admit publicaly that it was Pakistan all along that helped the US defeat AQ. As for Trumps's actions opposite to his tweets, i disagree because since January when he said Pakistan has taken us for fools, he has done exactly the same, holding all money even the one US owed to us and not aid, blocked the transfers of Zulus, banning the training of our troops in the US among other things. He has even sanctioned some of our firms.

As for transit through US, didn't Gen Musharraf claim that the US had threatened to bomb Pakistan if it did not cooperate? If that was the case, what, in your opinion, has changed today? Would you not ascribe this 'free transit' as a (un)willing participation in US efforts?

Musharraf was a dictator and like all dictators he needed legitimisation and nothing better than the US endorsement. He could have very well resisted or at the least should have bargained much better than he did before joining the war. What changed is that now you have some one who does not need US endorsement, he is someone who is not corrupt and would not sell Pakistan's interest over his personal petty gains. What changed is that now we have another super power who has very high stakes involved in Pakistan. After 2001 US was able to gather support which it no longer enjoys not even back home, another war with a nuclear armed nation will be a non seller even back at home, forget about getting any traction internationally.

Not entering Yemen was one of the boldest and wisest moves by Pakistan. I have no doubt about it. But, as for the bold, I would not be so brash so as to make such a claim.

As i said diplomacy is not a zero sum game. We did not entered Yemen war because it was contrary to our interests and this hasnt changed even now when we are looking at Saudi Arabia for a bail out package. Yes we make other concessions and they are mostly not only because we owe anything to the Saudi regime but also because Saudi Arabia is home to holy places for all Muslims. So lets say if tomorrow some one attacks the kingdom, that would result in a military response from Pakistan not just because of Saudis but because of other sensitives explained above. This is not different from how US and europe will react incase some one attacks ROME.

CPEC remains an issue, with even your Government having tried to re-negotiate as per open sources. If the cynics are allowed space, the recent TLP dharna was supposedly 'managed' by what I call "the sixth dimension' of Governance in Pakistan (World Bank has listed five), and reportedly as a reminder to Imran Khan led GoP that all external affairs need to be cleared with them. The recent statement of the PM on U-Turns, seems to lend a certain credence to this, especially when reportedly PRC told him to re-negotiate with respective firms and also was not enthusiastic on underwriting loans.

Actually TLP if anything it has only brought all pillars of the state of Pakistan together. If it was the sixth dimension than those involved would not gutting for the Chief Justice and calling the army chief Kafir. CPEC has not problem specially now when China has agreed to renegotiate. As i said above with IK at the helm one thing is clear that Pakistan is foremost even when others scrub to pressure.

That brings me to the Saudi equation. They do, to a large extent, call the shots. You may not have entered Yemen militarily, but you do have other ways of helping, which, I am sure, you are doing.

Explained above.

I agree, US apologised. But to claim Pakistan is not the same, will not only be a stretch, but an exaggeration. Your economic woes are only about to get worse. Or you will further lose traction in your foreign policy as Saudis will be bankrolled by US to ensure you do their bidding.

US in its delusions rather played all its cards in haste as evident from the events unfolding and US growing frustration. If you monitor it you will realise that despite everything from stopping aid to reimbursements, military equipment, even arm twisting the IMF, nothing has changed w.r.t Pakistan. What happened to US demands of acting against the Haqqanis? What happened to linking aid with do more? Tell me one instance where Pakistan has given in? The moment Pompeo landed in Pakistan, he was made to realise this is a different Pakistan. US now understands it holds little leverage over Pakistan and this is making them panic and frustrated. The only cards left are to sanction Pakistan but than they know Pakistan may very well retaliate by sanctioning the supply route. Another nightmare for them, a nuclear armed muslim nation slipping out of their influence so quickly hence Pentagon was quick to issue a statement of Pakistan being an important and crucial partner.
Pakistan has its weaknesses i am not doubting it but compared to Musharraf's time we are in a much better position to negotiate hard with the US at the same time reminding them this will be not be business as usual and every time US tries to scapegoat Pakistan, it will meet with a aggressive response something they are not used too but will become use too.

 

[Hellfire]

@IceCold

A great reply. Will re-visit at a latter stage.

Thanks a lot for a sensible insight.