Azerbaijan's JF-17 Thunder Acquisition: Updates & Discussions

[BHarwana]

its not, US wouldn't allow another country to provide critical components, such as targeting systems for its main jet fighters.

Some tech is available in other countries and not in USA. So USA has to buy that tech from others. Please search the components Turkey is making and Turkey is providing for F-35 and you will know. If you don't agree it is you choice and you have right to do so. I will not comment further on this. It is taking thread away from topic.

 

[XTQ1999]

Some tech is available in other countries and not in USA. So USA has to buy that tech from others. Please search the components Turkey is making and Turkey is providing for F-35 and you will know. If you don't agree it is you choice and you have right to do so. I will not comment further on this. It is taking thread away from topic.

yes, those components are made because Lockheed allows them to be made in Turkey, Turkey didn't design those components, Lockheed did. Turkey also only produces that component for its own orders. Lockheed doesn't have to buy anything from Turkey to build F-35 for US or other countries.

 

[krash]

pal, you are not americans.

Don't need to be. It doesn't take a lot to enforce after sales restrictions. Every little company in the world selling every little thing does it, to varying degrees.

if baku decides not to have your personnel to check, what can you do?

Not sell and later, stop after sales support. Unlike the Migs, the JF-17 does not have its parts and services readily available on the black market, a la Venezuelan F-16s and Pakistani F-16s in the 90s.

there are so many azeris' with isreali citizenship how are you going to get past it.

There are bound to be leaks here and there. What matters is the extent of them, e.g. the MKIs can participate at the Red Flag all they want, as long as they keep their radars switched off. The F-16s can't even do that.

look jf-17 is nothing highly classified is my point that you will be in that boat.

Neither do the Pakistani F-16s, nor did the Indian MKIs in Red Flag. The US spends millions of dollars to get its hands on its adversaries' equipment, there has to be something there.

already if burma is getting it; guess what indians will be having a close inspection or if you had sold it to sri-lanka same thing

Doubt it, for all the reasons mentioned above.

 

[devil302]

So aselpod which pakistan bought from turkey is for aaizerbaijan?

nope those are for pak and a jf was shown with aselpod in a promo video too.
if Azeri deal ever gets signed its their choice to pick what suits them

 

[denel]

@denel
as a mere denel salesman, lets not talk about things which are beyond yr scope and that thing about which your are talking about isnt even the product of RSA.

Go read about contracts signed in foreign sales....and read end user certificates and clauses. And for yr kind information, there aint no close technological co-operation b/w China and Israel...it stopped a long time ago in late 80s after Tiananmen Square saga!

I dont know which world are you people living in......The guarantees for this aircraft and her technologies will not only come from Pakistan's end but from Azerbaijani end too and Turkey will be the ultimate guarantor for ensuring what yr talking about doesnt happen.

Its not that easy that u keep on installing whatever you what in any product without the OEM without knowing and allowing it to begin with. Yr living in some fools paradise mister, yr RSA probably be that fool of a country Pakistan is NOT!

Pal. first please learn to write in a respectful and dignified manner.
next i am not a sales person but a well seasoned engineers with now 2 PhDs and delivered very very large scale projects from controls systems, ECCM, navigation to name a few a lot more and some of my design resides on your ROSE machines.
I think you are completely in the dark in many aspects of what is transpiring in many of the fields between China and Isreal. I would suggest first get into the actual core work and collaborations before spewing rubbish ... a perfect **** street characteristics.
will not be responding to your reply. thank you. Keep this thread respectful.

I would suggest you go and spend time in Baku and surrounding republics.

Yes we are not that does not mean the end user agreements and clauses suddenly changes. Secondly no Indians could not get their hands either in Burma or Srilanka because Burma is already out of Indian influence and very much into Chinese sphere and as for Srilanka, Pakistan enjoys much more cordial relations which extends to military relations than India so hell no if India could ever get its hands on a JF-17 in Burma or Srilanka and Azerbaijan will no different either.
And yes JF-17 is nothing classified but so was the F-16. Block 52 have nothing that the Chinese would want as they are already operating a 5th generation platform and their J-10 is as good if not better than an F-16 yet end user restrictions were placed. Heck we cant even put the F-16s in the same exercise with the Chinese. So again my point is simple it does not matter whether seller is China or Pakistan because Pakistan is a 50 % partner as such our stakes and input are as important as anyone else. Besides do not forget that its in Pakistan where the Azerbaijan has shown interest and not China so it would be Pakistan that would be selling it and hence negotiating the terms and conditions and end user clauses etc.

Correct. What i am noting is the massive scale corruption that exists in Baku; everything is possible at a price. Given that F-16 was reviewed by China long ago when with PAF highlights the exact issue.
Let us get back to the actual thread discussion.

@denel hmd is a tech of past now new and better targeting tech is available and Turkey is providing it for F-35. Plus Azerbaijan is more of a Pakistani ally as well and Israel can inspect jf-17 in Myanmar because Israel has good relations with them than Azerbaijan. So no worries.

good catch, i am referring to hmds; Isreal/South africa are where this is available and Baku will use those as required. Already hundreds of mine protected vehicles have made their way over there from Rossyln; a plant setup already for knock down assembly is up and running with a relabelling.

 

[Dazzler]

im not talking about that....... and you also better to avoid indulging into things you have no clue about.

Such as?

Pal. first please learn to write in a respectful and dignified manner.
next i am not a sales person but a well seasoned engineers with now 2 PhDs and delivered very very large scale projects from controls systems, ECCM, navigation to name a few a lot more and some of my design resides on your ROSE machines.
I think you are completely in the dark in many aspects of what is transpiring in many of the fields between China and Isreal. I would suggest first get into the actual core work and collaborations before spewing rubbish ... a perfect **** street characteristics.
will not be responding to your reply. thank you. Keep this thread respectful.

I would suggest you go and spend time in Baku and surrounding republics.


Correct. What i am noting is the massive scale corruption that exists in Baku; everything is possible at a price. Given that F-16 was reviewed by China long ago when with PAF highlights the exact issue.
Let us get back to the actual thread discussion.

good catch, i am referring to hmds; Isreal/South africa are where this is available and Baku will use those as required. Already hundreds of mine protected vehicles have made their way over there from Rossyln; a plant setup already for knock down assembly is up and running with a relabelling.

Now now, be easy on the kid will you? :S

 

[JohnWick]

Now now, be easy on the kid will you? :S

A such uncle or grandfather of him r you?

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Such as?




Now now, be easy on the kid will you? :S

lets just say people like us who r into Strategic studies and International Relations decide that.

u rather should focus on things which r part of your field!

P


good catch, i am referring to hmds; Isreal/South africa are where this is available and Baku will use those as required. Already hundreds of mine protected vehicles have made their way over there from Rossyln; a plant setup already for knock down assembly is up and running with a relabelling.

so u afterall are a salesman mister engineer.

As much as u would like that to happen, let me remind you, Azeries would be in big trouble if they did anything or took anybody even near this a/c that we dont want to be near it.
OEM even after the sales delivery is still the God Father, as i advised you.......please go study about End user agreement and its clauses.

It doesnt matter how much azeries r corrupt or how good of a network or ingress MOSSAD has in Azerbaijan....Pakistan also has a deep and strong ingress in Azerbaijani society and specially spy network.

 

[MastanKhan]

clueless... please go to school and improve your grammar before joining forums larger than your shoes.

Hi,

If the Azeri deal goes thru---then it is just the aircraft and the engine minus EW package and weapons---.

There is a good chance that the Israelis may come out with something of their own and offer it to Paf indirectly for the JF17---because of all the rhetoric---Israel does not consider pakistan a threat---.

@denel---pakistani kids don't understand there there are engineer specialists who can just look at a picture---know the manufacturing capabilities of a nations industrial complex and come out very very accurate about the capabilities of that machine---and that was even before the basic computers became a household furniture---and I know that with your background---you are one of them---.

It is Israel's job to know what everyone is doing and they do it without 'prejudice' per say---so to argue about it is useless---.

Do the chinese engineers not know the capabilities of the F35 / F22---. They have their sources---. Then how would the israelis not know about the JF17 that is being marketted to the middle eastern countries---?

 

[MastanKhan]

it wont be accepted from our end! in the end this project belongs 58% to Pakistan. So even China or from approaching them independently bypassing Pakistan wont work.

Hi,

If you read my post again---I am not talking about israel's involvement directly---.

In the end---the seller has its rights and the buyer has its rights---.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Hi,

If you read my post again---I am not talking about israel's involvement directly---.

In the end---the seller has its rights and the buyer has its rights---.

buyer can buy AESA radar fighter from elsewhere then if he can find it in 21 million dollar per plane...no direct or indirect involvement and even their presence near the plane will be allowed!

 

[araz]

buyer can buy AESA radar fighter from elsewhere then if he can find it in 21 million dollar per plane...not direct or indirect involvement and even their presence near the plane will be allowed!

Can we please settle down and bring som respectability back to this thread. You need to know that an argument can be made in a respectful manner without there being any need to get down to personal insults. @denel and @Dazzler are both senior posters who have been posting quality posts for years. So whereas you might have an argument, if you do not agree with a point of view, agree to disagree and please move on. Persisting and being disrespectful leads to an unsavoury feeling to the thread and serious posters are drawn away from it. Already we have lost a lot of posters who see constant bickering and mud slinging and move on.
A

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Can we please settle down and bring som respectability back to this thread. You need to know that an argument can be made in a respectful manner without there being any need to get down to personal insults. @denel and @Dazzler are both senior posters who have been posting quality posts for years. So whereas you might have an argument, if you do not agree with a point of view, agree to disagree and please move on. Persisting and being disrespectful leads to an unsavoury feeling to the thread and serious posters are drawn away from it. Already we have lost a lot of posters who see constant bickering and mud slinging and move on.
A

we all should limit our arguments to those areas in which we specialize in then.....going beyond one's specialization and speaking or giving ideas on an international and as big of a forum like this can bring in unwanted headache to those who r working in that particular field and they remain a competent authority to talk about matters pertaining to that particular field.......

For Example, You almost never find me commenting unnecessarily and whatever knee jerk thoughts that come in my mind, in those threads where technology, engineering, weapons, their procurement, military strategy or marketing strategies r being discussed. I like to keep quite and learn there.

Engineers or salesmen should limit the arguments and opinions at this particular weapons export......not go beyond those areas where matters of national security and strategic studies come in. Because they arnt the only ones making such decisions. And specially Foreign Engineers!

There is a limit to nonsense one can read and hear without reacting.

Thank You!

 

[Dazzler]

we all should limit our arguments to those areas in which we specialize in then.....going beyond one's specialization and speaking or giving ideas on an international and as big of a forum like this can bring in unwanted headache to those who r working in that particular field and they remain a competent authority to talk about matters pertaining to that particular field.......

For Example, You almost never find me commenting unnecessarily and whatever knee jerk thoughts that come in my mind, in those threads where technology, engineering, weapons, their procurement, military strategy or marketing strategies r being discussed. I like to keep quite and learn there.

Engineers or salesmen should limit the arguments and opinions at this particular weapons export......not go beyond those areas where matters of national security and strategic studies come in. Because they arnt the only ones making such decisions. And specially Foreign Engineers!

There is a limit to nonsense one can read and hear without reacting.

Thank You!

The bold part is really something. You are going to be one kickass strategist indeed.

 

[MastanKhan]

we all should limit our arguments to those areas in which we specialize in then.....going beyond one's specialization and speaking or giving ideas on an international and as big of a forum like this can bring in unwanted headache to those who r working in that particular field and they remain a competent authority to talk about matters pertaining to that particular field.......

For Example, You almost never find me commenting unnecessarily and whatever knee jerk thoughts that come in my mind, in those threads where technology, engineering, weapons, their procurement, military strategy or marketing strategies r being discussed. I like to keep quite and learn there.

Engineers or salesmen should limit the arguments and opinions at this particular weapons export......not go beyond those areas where matters of national security and strategic studies come in. Because they arnt the only ones making such decisions. And specially Foreign Engineers!

There is a limit to nonsense one can read and hear without reacting.

Thank You!

Hi,

you are one smart cookie---. What would we do if you left this board---!