Asia’s Submarine Race

[Aepsilons]

I know Japans AIPs sub arent indendent, since they import it from Sweden#(the article itself admitted that). But it doesnt really matter whether they produced it themselves or depend on others, as far as its advanced/capable, then its all good. The end justifies the means in this case.
Morever, i did mentioned that even though its true that China has the largest sub fleet in Asia, but the U.S and Japan subs are more advanced than anything China has at the moment. So my point still stands(and your didnt disprove that either), whether Japanese AIP subs are more expensive than China or their sterling engines are imported doesnt matter and its another topic altogether anyway. I just made a point that Japans subs are more advanced/quiter/capable than Chinas, though China might have the upper hand in a long prolonged conflict due to its massive sub fleet and insutrial base. But that again is another topic and remains to be seen. Banzai.

Ha ha ha ha. I raise my pub glass to that, Matey !

 

[mike2000]

IMO Japan impresses me the most. Putting AIP on the Soryu-class will make it one of the deadliest submarines not just in Asia, but in the world. It has been proven in tests that AIP subs can penetrate the defenses of carrier groups (Look up the HSwMS Gotland). Having 8 of these beasts on top of their existing fleet will make them an extremely powerful regional force.

I completely agree with all your points man.

 

[Aepsilons]

LOL! I just can help but smile when i read @ChineseTiger1986 said our subs are 'too expensive'.

buahahahahahaha!

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I know Japans AIPs sub arent indendent, since they import it from Sweden#(the article itself admitted that). But it doesnt really matter whether they produced it themselves or depend on others, as far as its advanced/capable, then its all good. The end justifies the means in this case.
Morever, i did mentioned that even though its true that China has the largest sub fleet in Asia, but the U.S and Japan subs are more advanced than anything China has at the moment. So my point still stands(and your didnt disprove that either), whether Japanese AIP subs are more expensive than China or their sterling engines are imported doesnt matter and its another topic altogether anyway. I just made a point that Japans subs are more advanced/quiter/capable than Chinas, though China might have the upper hand in a long prolonged conflict due to its massive sub fleet and insutrial base. But that again is another topic and remains to be seen. Banzai.

No, you are wrong, China's newer nuclear subs have not only equipped with the pump-jet, but also the versatile VLS including both LACM and ASCM.

So Japan is not in our league.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

LOL! I just can help but smile when i read @ChineseTiger1986 said our subs are 'too expensive'.

buahahahahahaha!

The Japanese military products are often overpriced, and this is barely a secret.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

Good to see Vietnams navy is really serious about its submarine fleet. Having purchased Kilos subs from Russia has greatly boosted their capabilities/potentials. Its indeed surprising to see Vietnam now has one of the best submarine force in the region, Thailand seems to be lagging behind, even though they have a far bigger economy and are way more devloped than Vietnam. Vietnam with this kilos purchase seems to be having one of the best submarine force in south east Asia along with Singapore and Malaysia. Surprisingly, Indonesia who is by far the biggest country(economically, financially,size wise) and defacto leader in the region still lags behind in this field. Taiwan is an even bigger dissapointment, they dont even have a decent submarine at all(thanks to their pals in the mainland.lol), Hopefully they will get their act together before the end of this decade. Wth is Iran doing in this list and not other countries like Turkey. Iran and North Korea arent doing bad though, considering they have been under strict sanctions/isolated for a while now. Many countries in this list wouldnt be doing better than them if they were isolated/under sanctions as them. As for Japan i think they have the best/most capable submarine force in Asia(well after the BIG BOSS U.S of course.), China does have the largest submarine force in the region(bigger than even the U.S), but then again Japan ans American subs are more advanced. Interesting post my friend Svensvensonov, i do like/enjoy all your posts, since they are very informative/ make me learn things i didnt know. cheerrs to that. keep it up bros.

Two fools agreeing with each other does not a genius make - no offense by the way, you've been a good friend. The reason I think Russia will transfer its most critical tech, and to be fair the 093 Russian help speculation dates back to 1993 - years before they were strategic rivals and a time when Russia needed a lot of help due to the collapse of the Soviet Union, was and is because Russia still does transfer its most up-to-date tech to China, even if the Chinese are prone to copying it. The Lada - export designation Amur, is Russia's most advanced AIP sub... it was offered to China. Missiles, engines, tanks, aircraft, radars, just about anything other then nuclear boats has been offered, though China has and has not taken the Russians up on their offer. Russia needs money, it will still offer China some of its best equipment.

 

[mike2000]

They use to lease their Akula class sub to India, because they know that India doesn't even have the capability to copy it.

China in the late 1990s has also requested to lease an Akula class sub from Russia, but we got rejected.

Think about it, Russia can agree to lease the Akula class to the 2010s India, but meanwhile not for the 1990s China.

Do you see the difference here?

Well on this agree. Russia will only transfer a tech they know is outdated to them/is of no use/inferior to what they have. I dont blame them though, since all major P5 powers do the same thing to be honest. Moreover, as i said, Russia will do anything to keep its customer forever dependent on it for as long as possible. so they wont ever do anything that they know can lead to a major customer overtake them and stop buying their arms/weapons, since Russia depends alot on arms exports to remain relvant in the world scene and boost its cash strapped military industries. So their 'JV' with India is a sham, and their leasing of Akula itself is just because they know India is the main/only country who supports/boost their weapons industries single handedly with billions each year. So of course they will kae sure that remains the case for many decades to come, while transfering the least tech as possible to India or making excuses etc. So im expecting even more silly comments from Russian officials/Media these coming years as India buys more weapons from the U.S/west.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Two fools agreeing with each other does not a genius make - no offense by the way, you've been a good friend. The reason I think Russia will transfer its most critical tech, and to be fair the 093 Russian help speculation dates back to 1993 - years before they were strategic rivals and a time when Russia needed a lot of help due to the collapse of the Soviet Union, was and is because Russia still does transfer its most up-to-date tech to China, even if the Chinese are prone to copying it. The Lada - export designation Amur, is Russia's most advanced AIP sub... it was offered to China. Missiles, engines, tanks, aircraft, radars, just about anything other then nuclear boats has been offered, though China has and has not taken the Russians up on their offer. Russia needs money, it will still offer China some of its best equipment.

Those Lada/Amur subs are only the political purpose. In fact, we don't really need it since we already have a large number of more mature Type 039A/B/C.

Russia right now is suffering from the western sanction, so they need us to give them a boost by buying their military products such as Su-35/S-400/Amur, because they know it is not sensitive to us anymore.

Russia right now has not even operated any AIP sub, but we have already operated more than dozen of these type of subs. So do you really think we need it other than the political purpose?

 

[Aepsilons]

The Japanese military products are often overpriced, and this is barely a secret.

Cost will reduce as production increases; besides, there's no reason why Japan cannot provide soft loans to friendly partners.

 

[BoQ77]

lol, the US has nothing to offer to Vietnam in the sub domain because they currently don't operate any conventional sub.

BTW, Japan's AIP sub is overpriced and it can be easily outnumbered by China's Type 039A/B/C AIP subs.

Also, Japan's AIP sub still depends on the Swedish stirling engine, whereas the Chinese AIP sub is 100% technologically independent.

Japan is just a pawn of the US who is never on their own, unlike China who is 100% independent and versatile.

You tried your best to persuade everyone that China is more advanced than Japan in subs and some others.
It's your right, and our right is to doubt about that. That means we need judging by ourselves, not believe in just marketing words. Because, anyway China would want to make money to cover their big investment on those weapons.

The Axis could persuade others easier, because they are hunters in the past.
And now Japan is more transparent than China.

Japan subs are for sudden attacks, while Japan AEGIS to intercept the sudden attack.

We doubt about what you claim "outnumber Japan by aging subs" most of China sub fleet in the similar situation as Liaoning

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Cost will reduce as production increases; besides, there's no reason why Japan cannot provide soft loans to friendly partners.

Each Soryu sub cost about 2 billion, so this is as expensive as the US Virginia class.

New Japanese submarines to cost Abbott Government $20 billion

But do you really think this toy is on par with the Virginia class?

 

[Aepsilons]

Each Soryu sub cost about 2 billion, so this is as expensive as the US Virginia class.

New Japanese submarines to cost Abbott Government $20 billion

But do you really think this toy is on par with the Virginia class?

As I said as production increases, cost will decrease. Anyway, the cost of 1 soryu is about $500 million. The additional cost include weapons, training cost, support / maintenance costs throughout the life of this sub.

 

[rockstar08]

Once Pakistan will Acquire Qing or Upgraded Yaun class subs from China , which will be fitted with AIP , Pakistan will also have a strong Sub force in S.Asia ...

 

[SvenSvensonov]

Each Soryu sub cost about 2 billion, so this is as expensive as the US Virginia class.

New Japanese submarines to cost Abbott Government $20 billion

But do you really think this toy is on par with the Virginia class?

For Japan, with existing infrastructure, support and maintenance capabilities, each Soryu-Class sub costs around 500M USD. For Australia, which will need additional infrastructure, support and maintenance, plus training costs, the price naturally rose. I will still agree that 2 billion per boat is very, very expensive, but considering this isn't the cost per boat, and is a cost that includes support features, the extra is well explained.

@Nihonjin1051 - perhaps you have additional information on exactly what Australia is getting in their contract?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

You tried your best to persuade everyone that China is more advanced than Japan in subs and some others.
It's your right, and our right is to doubt about that. That means we need judging by ourselves, not believe in just marketing words. Because, anyway China would want to make money to cover their big investment on those weapons.

The Axis could persuade others easier, because they are hunters in the past.
And now Japan is more transparent than China.

Japan subs are for sudden attacks, while Japan AEGIS to intercept the sudden attack.

We doubt about what you claim "outnumber Japan by aging subs" most of China sub fleet in the similar situation as Liaoning

Sorry, but their AEGIS cannot intercept the Mach 10-15 DF-21D.

The Japanese Self-Defence Force is just a subset of the Asia-Pacific branch of the US military, and without the US military command, they cannot do anything on their own.

BTW, China's conventional subs right now are mostly AIP.

Type 039A submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia