Ambedkar and Jinnah: Same path, different goals

[Paitoo]

Hazrat Muhammad and Karl Marx also knew many things about human affairs without leaving their villages too.

About the Prophet, it was a different time, no easy mobility. I wish Marx had travelled more.
Today's prophets are all globetrotters

 

[jamahir]

About the Prophet, it was a different time, no easy mobility.

Agreed it was no easy mobility but his message's messengers / diplomats traveled to many places in that broad region - from Iran to Istanbul to Ethiopia to others :

Muhammad's letters to the heads of state are diplomatic letters reported to be sent by the Islamic prophet Muhammad to the political leaders of the world, inviting them to Islam. Muhammad, according to Islamic historiography, sent ambassadors with such letters to the Eastern Roman Emperor Heraclius, Khosrow II of Persia, the Ethiopian/Abyssinian king Negus Armah, Cyrus of Egypt, the Arab vassal king of the Levant or Byzantine Syria and the Arab satrap of East Arabia, as well as some of the tribal despots of Arabia.

According to al-Tabari in his History of the Prophets and Kings (10th century CE), Muhammad decided after the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah (628) to send letters to many rulers of the world, inviting them to Islam. The Islamic account of some of these letters and their reception has been a matter of discussion.

I wish Marx had travelled more.

Well, in time his message spread wide enough, from Japan and Russia in the East to the Americas in the West and every direction in between.

Today's prophets are all globetrotters

Who all ?

However, what Ambedkar accomplished for Dalits, Jinnah never could for the Muslims, despite making strenuous efforts.

The idiot authors brings Jinnah down to the level of a civil right activist in India. JInnah was a nation builder, united millions of Muslims and formed a new country and this idiot thinks that a Dalit activist was able to achieve more. And you expect us to take this joke seriously.

Dalit activist ? Yes, he was that and more. He was one of discussion partners of Jinnah and one the co-founders of modern India just like Jinnah was of Pakistan and the main drafter of India's constitution which was progressive to a big extent unlike Tableeghi dictator Zia ul Haq who introduced irrationality and more injustice into Pakistan through "legal" means. In 1954 before Ambedkar died he had a public meeting and there he and hundreds of thousands of his followers converted to Buddhism in rejection of his lower caste Hindu status where he and they were oppressed. Ambedkar was India's first law minister. Jinnah and Ambedkar were progressive people but they didn't go fully progressive, check out @Drizzt's other thread in this same forum section around the same topic. Ambedkar was of the same stature as Jinnah.

Your use of "Dalit activist" as a slur shows that you have casteist tendencies. Do you also use "That bhangi !", "That choora !", "That mirasi !", "That kanjar !" ?

It is you being the idiot, please see that.

 

[Faqirze]

How are Ambedkar and Jinnah in anyway comparable? we all see how great our beloved "Dalits" are treated in Pakistan. I suspect OP is a false flagger considering his post history.

Pakistan - International Dalit Solidarity Network

Introduction The Dalits of Pakistan face multiple forms of discrimination – as non-Muslims in a Muslim state, and as Dalits at the bottom of the caste hierarchy. If they are women, they are also likely […]

idsn.org

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

The OP was a fine read, thank you.



They were right to have reservations. The Western / Anglo model of "democracy" is an illusion of democracy. I have written of this in many places on the forum including here and here.



Nice to know that about Ambedkar. So other than he being the law minister he should also have been the home minister instead of the Hindutvadi crook Vallabhbhai Patel. And Jinnah had no time to initiate Socialism in Pakistan because he died right in 1948 and the effects now I write in this post from yesterday. Another tragedy was that the Pakistani establishment which claimed to speak in the name of Jinnah failed because it strongly disrupted the effort of some Pakistani Socialists and Communists who in 1951, only three years after the death of the Socialism-liking Jinnah, made attempt to bring leftist governance to Pakistan. And now the evil minions of Zia ul Haq rule the roost, going against the ideas of Jinnah.

@Bilal. @Areesh @MultaniGuy @Black Vigo @Mujahid Memon @Trango Towers, read above and read the OP. You don't know some ideological things about your country.

@Joe Shearer



Sadly not the case in India and Pakistan. From Rohith Vemula's and Payal Tadvi's suicides in 2016 to the Hathras gangrape / murder in 2020 to the fact that upper caste shopkeepers in some areas refusing to take back a biscuit packet touched by a Shudra / Dalit and the person having to buy the biscuits to even Muslims in Kashmir practicing untouchability to our dear prime minister, Pragati Purush of Vishwaguru India, Narendra bhai saying in the book 2009 Karmayog that the Shudras and Dalits clean the gutters and the drains because it gives them "Aadhyatmik anand" ( spiritual bliss ), not because they are being forced to for the last 3000 years... many other things. Ambedkar's community is trying to throw the yoke of social ostracization and inequality but the surrounding society is not allowing them to.

Was in Pakistan 3 months ago. The ground reality is that the people are fine and doing well. No one messes with them too. The BIGGEST tragedy is the indian muslims becoming a slave race to indian hindus/sanghis. Where indian muslim men are eunuchs and indian muslim women are the sex-slaves of indian hindus/sanghis.........

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Did you even read the OP properly ? Jinnah was in the Congress party which was an Indian party before the Partition. Did Pakistan get transported from Scandinavia or Pluto suddenly in 1947 ? Read this related thread also posted by @Drizzt before you rush to make a buthparast idol out of Jinnah :

The Historic Meeting of Ambedkar, Jinnah and Periyar

By – K. V. Ramakrishna Rao, B.Sc., M.A., A.M.I.E., C.Eng.(I)., B.L. A paper presented during the 21st session of South Indian History Congress held at Madurai Kamaraj University from 18 to 20 January 2001 and published in the proceedings, pp.128-136 Introduction: The meeting of Bhimarao Ramji...

defence.pk

Man, except for @Cheepek no other Indian this far is disrespecting Jinnah. Stop being an ordinary infant.

Sorry but a worthless, racially inferior slave race like indian Muslims are not even fit enough to mention the name of the great Jinnah. Whatever Pakistan and Pakistanis are going through at the moment is just temporary and Pakistanis will always superior to indian Muslims so much so that it cannot even be measured. indian Muslim men are ONLY good for being eunuchs and indian muslim women are only good for being the sex slaves of indian hindus/sanghis.............

 

[Paitoo]

Who all ?

So many - from the guy on LinkedIn who distributes corporate gyaan everyday, to the next door jobless Instagram influencer, to the haloed babas.

 

[jamahir]

So many - from the guy on LinkedIn who distributes corporate gyaan everyday, to the next door jobless Instagram influencer, to the haloed babas.

1. "Prophet" is a serious word not to be accorded legitimacy to some Capitalism-entitled Wall Street crook on LinkedIn or some baba.

2. According to the 75-year-old Indian societal expectations and culture I am "jobless", a designation lovingly accorded to me by multiple Indian nationalists and one Pakistani on PDF. Not blowing my own trumpet here but can we compare my intellect to these hundreds of millions of job'ed nationalists sitting in Infosys or ISRO ? But how will you describe "jobless" ? Though yes, I dislike all these FB and Insta people who put their personal life out to the world, whether it is their child's first birthday or some religious pilgrimage or the in-fashion pregnant tummy or their Captalism-full grand weddings or their dog doing something... This is just too ridiculous, in your face, irrational, obscene. Kaun hain yeh log ? Kahaan se aate hain ?

3. About babas, well, it is the same job'ed people who go to them.

 

[Mujahid Memon]

Ahh the expert who is here to teach us all about Pakistan.. kiddo I have travelled extensively in India. Have you been to Pakistan?

This guy would probably teach Nazism to Hitler if he was there back then

 

[jamahir]

This guy would probably teach Nazism to Hitler if he was there back then

Yeah because you and your chums will teach Islam and every other human affair to me.

 

[Trango Towers]

Yeah because you and your chums will teach Islam and every other human affair to me.

No Islam is information common sense js from God
If you choose to worship a cow that's your choice. If you want to come back in the next life as a cockroach that's also your choice.
No one has the right to impose their values on anyone. But please note yoh are of Pakistan defence forum where the vast majority not all are Muslims.