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26/11: Tahawwur Rana's verdict weakens India's case against ISI

^^^ Until the identities of those alleged to be 'ISI agents' is actually established as serving 'ISI and/or military', and a case for 'institutional ISI/PA involvement is made' (which Headley himself claims is not true), the ISI cannot be shown complicit in anything, Indian and Western wishful thinking and propaganda aside.

Well Headley said though ISI top leadership may not be aware of the plans but Iqbal's commanding officers and his unit of the spy agency knew about the operation. Now how much anybody deny it but since we are talking about ISI men's involved in the attacks then ISI is complicit in it. It's funny that you guys are accepting a part of Headley's statement that suits you but completely denying the other part. now that's nothing more than silly way of thinking. (read the source below)

Also why do you think Pakistan is so important that the whole world need to do propaganda against you, your spy agencies, your army?? Strategic location or hub of terrorism?? eh?? Denying the problem and closing eyes to the monsters will not wish your problems away dear. Journos in your country has tried to show how your spy agency and army has been infiltrated by terrorist scums and unfortunately those journos had to pay the price for speaking the truth by their lives.

Chicago Trial's Explosive Revelations

The verdict is in: David Headley's accomplice is found guilty. Sebastian Rotella reports on the unprecedented glimpse into the terrorist mindset the case offered-and the fallout for U.S.-Pakistan relations.
The terrorism trial of Tahawwur Rana, a minor accomplice whose trial ended Thursday in a guilty verdict on two of three counts, offered an extraordinary look into the underworld of terrorism and espionage in South Asia and had repercussions much closer to home.
The five days of testimony of confessed American terrorist and Pakistani spy David Coleman Headley were unprecedented in a U.S. courtroom. Headley delivered explosive revelations about how officers in Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI) funded, supported and directed the 2008 Mumbai attacks along with the Lashkar-i-Taiba militant group.

Because of his mix of front-line experience and high-level contacts, Headley's testimony was like a seminar in how terrorists communicate in code, do surveillance on targets and assemble plots while spies oversee the operations from the shadows like puppeteers. The case also showed how a growing number of serving and former Pakistani military officers have put their lethal talents at the service of Lashkar, al Qaeda and other groups. It revealed the impunity with which ISI officers and terrorists alike operate in Pakistan even when they target Americans and other Westerners. (See our readers' guide to the trial.)
The evidence combined with the indictment of Headley's ISI handler in the murders of six American victims of the Mumbai attacks has worsened the already troubled U.S. Pakistani-relationship. "The trial has been yet another bump in the road for U.S.-Pakistan relations," said Stephen Tankel, author of a forthcoming book titled Storming the World Stage: the Story of Lashkar-e-Taiba.
At the same time, the trial left enduring mysteries.
It did not answer questions about whether Sajid Mir, a Lashkar mastermind caught on tape directing the slaughter in Mumbai by phone, was once a Pakistani military officer. It did not explore the extent to which ISI chiefs beyond Headley's handler, known only as Major Iqbal, were aware of the Mumbai plot, which ultimately killed 166 people. Headley testified that he believed top ISI leadership was not aware, but he also said Iqbal's commanding officer and his unit of the spy agency knew about the operation.
Finally, prosecutors managed to skirt two delicate and interconnected issues that the U.S. government refuses to discuss: Headley's role as a U.S. informant and the failure of the FBI to stop his terrorist activity despite at least six warnings during seven years. Headley revealed that he was simultaneously an extremist and an informant for the Drug Enforcement Administration for at least two years, and that he gathered counterterror intelligence as well as doing anti-drug work.
Headley testified that he stopped working for the DEA in September 2002, but that did not change contradictions and gaps in the U.S. government's official version. The DEA has stated that he was deactivated in early 2002, while other agencies have said he remained an informant until as late as 2005.
"The lack of clarity reinforces suspicions that the U.S. government knew more about Headley than it has revealed."
The lack of clarity reinforces suspicions that the U.S. government knew more about Headley than it has revealed and that his role as an informant shielded him from more aggressive scrutiny in the years before his arrest in October 2009.
"I don't feel we got the whole story about Headley as an informant from the Americans," said a European counterterror official involved in the investigation. "I believe he was a drug informant and also some other kind of informant."
The jury did not get the whole story either. Headley had already pleaded guilty to doing reconnaissance in Mumbai and for a plot in Denmark. The official focus of the trial was the narrower issue of charges of material support of terrorism against Rana, who owns an immigration consulting firm in Chicago. He was accused of supporting Headley's reconnaissance for the Mumbai and Denmark attacks and of overall support for Lashkar. Prosecutors charged that Rana let Headley open an office of the firm in Mumbai and use the business as cover for his surveillance in India and Denmark.
The verdict suggested a common-sense analysis by the jury. Headley testified that the Mumbai plot was a joint operation in which he was directed by Major Iqbal of the ISI and the Lashkar handler named Mir. The defense established that Rana communicated with Major Iqbal, but not any Lashkar masterminds. Rana's lawyers argued that Headley, Rana's boyhood friend, was a skilled manipulator who convinced Rana that he was doing intelligence for the ISI against India, Pakistan's arch-enemy, and kept him in the dark about the Mumbai plot.
The acquittal on the charge of supporting the Mumbai plot indicates that the jury accepted that argument. But they apparently rejected the idea that Rana remained a dupe once the carnage in India had happened. Headley soon enlisted Rana to assist his reconnaissance on a newspaper in Denmark that has become an internationally known target of terrorists after publishing caricatures of the Prophet Mohammad in 2005. Because Rana was a devout Muslim, it seems hard to believe he did not suspect anything at that point.
Rana's conviction is a small victory. Washington has been pressing Pakistan for more than a year to arrest Major Iqbal as well as Mir and a half-a-dozen other Lashkar chiefs who have been implicated as masterminds. Despite abundant evidence and the U.S. federal indictment, the Pakistani government has not pursued those fugitives. They are not in hiding and continue to be involved in terrorist plotting, U.S. investigators say.
Lashkar is simply too powerful and too close to the Pakistani security forces, according to Western and Indian counterterror officials. Pakistani officials fear that arresting major figures in Lashkar, which has not attacked the Pakistani state, could result in violent backlash and further instability.
"They think they have to leave these Lashkar cadres free to control the organization," an Indian anti-terror official said. "They are worried that if they move against them, it could be a civil-war situation."
An award-winning foreign correspondent and investigative reporter, Sebastian worked for almost 23 years for the Los Angeles Times, covering everything from terrorism to arts to the Mexican border. He served most recently as a national security correspondent in Washington, D.C., and his previous posts include international investigative correspondent and bureau chief in Paris and Buenos Aires, with assignments in the Middle East and North Africa.
 
^^ But, but, some western western countries + bharat are pointing fingers at us. So many countries are pointing fingers at us, hence it must be true. Why would they lie to us? Not believing in these stories is a conspiracy theory. :lol: (typical bharati logic).

What these guys don't realize is that THEY are the ones making conspiracy theories. That's what happens when you throw words around like children throw toys without knowing what the word means. Pretty much anyone not believing in what they say must be a conspiracy theorist. But if you dig a little deeper, THEY are the ones making conspiracy theories.

Question for you and your likes, why do you think the west+india+other countries need to point fingers at you? Be honest in your reply.
 
no one has anything to loose or gain except the hawks in india. they now have less material which they could possibly use to drag ISI in the mumbai attacks.

and also many here were literally waiting for the US court to link Rana to mumbai attacks so they could change their gears while bashing ISI.

India was not expecting US to find Rana and India before US catching rana never knew rana ... i dont know how it impacts 26/11 .. and you are the guys who were rubbishing headly and rana now what happened?
 
India was not expecting US to find Rana and India before US catching rana never knew rana ... i dont know how it impacts 26/11 .. and you are the guys who were rubbishing headly and rana now what happened?

why dont u tell us what happened?? all i can see is talking without proof or evidence.
 
Hawks in India do not need American certificates to scold ISI at any forum. We have our own inputs and many times coming from very Pakistani analysts and ex COAS. Its a well documented fact how agencies in Pakistan are operating Jihadi factions since Russian invasion of Afghanistan.

Pakistan has been changing gear first by totally disowning Headley and Rana before the trail and now finding technical relieves out of a open conviction. Headley himself has attested that few people from ISI were involved and both Rana and headley assisted each other on many occasions.

will be interesting to see how much of what headly has claimed can be proved in the court.....
 
Guys these things are difficult to prove, due to obvious reasons. No one working with intelligence agency will meet people with real names, that is basic. Same thing about raid. The point being how many such instances you find in real life that makes you suspect one way or other.
Not that difficult, provided one has proper evidences of others involvement, like Col. Purohit a serving col of IA was found involved in train blasts. But the fact remains there that India always try to take benefits of doubts.

The list of incidence I saw makes me believe ISI supports terrorist. kasab was biggest example, if there is nothing to hide why try denying to core.

:lol: what is this thread about? kasab is only arrest in 26/11, and there is nothing to prove ISI's involvement in 26/11, and you still call him biggest example.
 
Question for you and your likes, why do you think the west+india+other countries need to point fingers at you? Be honest in your reply.

Be specific on the bold part please, and give examples other than India's finger pointing.
 
He has done nothing of the sort - he claims that the individuals he dealt with were ISI, but he also states that he does not know their real identity, if he is not sure of their real identity, then he cannot really establish whether or not they were actually ISI.

Both Headley and US investigators have yet to establish that the individuals Headley dealt with were serving ISI or Military officials.

There is indeed a lot to 'gloat about' given Headley's testimony that he is not aware of the real identities of "Major Iqbal' and Company.

Yes, you still have a semblane of a fig leaf that everyomne else can see through.
 
If ISI was really not involved and this "major Iqbal" was really a rogue, you would have the ISI trying to unearth his identity and rid itself of such rogues. Have we seen any indication of this?

Did we see any introspection of why Osama was staying undtected in a garrison town for 5 years?

It is no secret that LET is an ISI creation. Hafiz was the featured guest at the Rawalpindi corps commander's iftar soon after 26/11.

These are no rogues, they are following the well established policy of Pakistan that has not changed for decades.
 
Be specific on the bold part please, and give examples other than India's finger pointing.

Below is the US pointing at you. By the way, you also have given your esteemed input in below thread but still want to act as if you don't know anything.


www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-foreign-affairs/113753-pakistan-officials-colluding-militants-us-presents-evidence.html

so, the question remains the same, why would someone blame Pakistan? Don't they have anything else to do?
 
If ISI was really not involved and this "major Iqbal" was really a rogue, you would have the ISI trying to unearth his identity and rid itself of such rogues. Have we seen any indication of this?
The ISI has nothing to go by except a false name, per Headley himself - no concrete ID, rank or even any concrete evidence that the individual was/is in the military.
Did we see any introspection of why Osama was staying undtected in a garrison town for 5 years?
What does that have to do with Headley and the allegations of ISI collusion with him?

Stick to the topic please.

---------- Post added at 01:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 AM ----------

Below is the US pointing at you. By the way, you also have given your esteemed input in below thread but still want to act as if you don't know anything.


www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-foreign-affairs/113753-pakistan-officials-colluding-militants-us-presents-evidence.html

so, the question remains the same, why would someone blame Pakistan? Don't they have anything else to do?

Propaganda and geopolitical games.
 
The ISI has nothing to go by except a false name, per Headley himself - no concrete ID, rank or even any concrete evidence that the individual was/is in the military.

What does that have to do with Headley and the allegations of ISI collusion with him?

Stick to the topic please

Well, if he were a rogue, there is enough to get started if the intention is there in the first place.

Anyway, the wikileaks made it clear that USA ooks at ISI as a terrorist organization. The fig leaf is falling day by day. I am not sure if it is already too late to do anything, especially if people continue to be in denial.
 
Well, if he were a rogue, there is enough to get started if the intention is there in the first place.

Anyway, the wikileaks made it clear that USA ooks at ISI as a terrorist organization. The fig leaf is falling day by day. I am not sure if it is already too late to do anything, especially if people continue to be in denial.

Beating the bush again again, or what they say in local proverbs, Billi Khamba nochay, When Rana were declared innocent in 26/11, you resort back to old techniques of mud slinging, The very same old American pointing out, The Hafiz Saeed Drama.

I need official stance, not unofficial stance. You indians always like to twist words. Let me give you an example, as you Indians always debunk us by saying show us the Proof India is involved in Balochistan.

Same case here, Show us ISI is involved, or else you are spreading and believing the conspiracy theories. Simple is that
 

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