1990/01/19 and the Kashmiri Pandits

[Soumitra]

@jamahir This one?

You know this is quite far fetched as I don't believe most Indian governments, including this one, will accept third party interference. Indeed, as far as I understand it, the stance of India for the past few years has been that Jammu and Kashmir is an internal issue of India. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

There is no third party present on this world that could pressurize India in anyway on Jammu and Kashmir. That can only come from within. Again, pardon me for being a pessimistic, I don't see that happening either. Especially with the way things are going these days with Modi incharge.

I agree completely. No external party can influence us on Kashmir. It is not their business.

The great Chaanakya has given 4 steps to resolve any issue

Saam - Talks
Daam - Rewards
Dand - Punishment
Bhed - Coercion

We already did lot of talking, we spent disproportionate amount of money on Kashmir but they kept on causing trouble. Now is time for dand with the Internet shutdown and jailing of stone pelters and their leaders and freezing of bank accounts. It seems to be working now as violence has almost come down to zero. We don't want to go to 4th step but are willing to do it if necessary.

 

[jamahir]

We already did lot of talking

When ??

Now is time for dand with the Internet shutdown and jailing of stone pelters and their leaders and freezing of bank accounts. It seems to be working now as violence has almost come down to zero. We don't want to go to 4th step but are willing to do it if necessary.

So what is the solution to the Kashmir question ?? How long will that region be under military suppression ( there are said to be 700,000 armed personnel there ) ??

Do you see a solution in the next 10 or 20 years ??

@Sher Shah Awan

I agree completely. No external party can influence us on Kashmir. It is not their business.

If a solution has not come out of the Indian and Pakistani establishments, there naturally has to be a third-party mediator, yes ??

 

[Soumitra]

When ??



So what is the solution to the Kashmir question ?? How long will that region be under military suppression ( there are said to be 700,000 armed personnel there ) ??

Do you see a solution in the next 10 or 20 years ??

@Sher Shah Awan



If a solution has not come out of the Indian and Pakistani establishments, there naturally has to be a third-party mediator, yes ??

Only solution is for them to give up arms and stones and be like any other state of India. And if they love Pakistan they are free to move there permanently.

Right now the status quo favours India.

Can it be better? Yes
Do we have to bow down to terrorist, stone pelters and their supporters to make things better? Absolutely No
Do we want foreign mediation? Hell no
That fool of a PM Nehru took Kashmir to UN and even though nothing came out of it, but 70 years later the Pakistanis still cry about a UN resolution which is not worth the paper it is printed on.

 

[PakistaniJunior]

Only solution is for them to give up arms and stones and be like any other state of India. And if they love Pakistan they are free to move there permanently.

Right now the status quo favours India.

Can it be better? Yes
Do we have to bow down to terrorist, stone pelters and their supporters to make things better? Absolutely No
Do we want foreign mediation? Hell no
That fool of a PM Nehru took Kashmir to UN and even though nothing came out of it, but 70 years later the Pakistanis still cry about a UN resolution which is not worth the paper it is printed on.

Excuse me but since when were you allowed to tell Kashmiris to move out of their own land ?? You need to realize that Kashmir is the land of Kashmiris, and by extension, it is within their right to decide where Kashmir should and shouldn't go. Since when does an outsider like you gets to decide whether Kashmiris should abandon their homes or not?
Despite what India claims, this is not a internal issue and no country in the world recognizes it as such. Foreign parties clearly regard Kashmir as disputed territory. By constantly covering your ears and repeating the mantra of "internal issue internal issue" you lot can not change the reality on ground.
Kashmiris have resisted since the times of our independence, it is clear to see what they actually want. Contrary to what your establishment says.

 

[jamahir]

Only solution is for them to give up arms and stones and be like any other state of India. And if they love Pakistan they are free to move there permanently.

Right now the status quo favours India.

Can it be better? Yes
Do we have to bow down to terrorist, stone pelters and their supporters to make things better? Absolutely No
Do we want foreign mediation? Hell no
That fool of a PM Nehru took Kashmir to UN and even though nothing came out of it, but 70 years later the Pakistanis still cry about a UN resolution which is not worth the paper it is printed on.

Then you should give the Kashmiris something that they will accept. Again I will write of my solution :

(a). Both India and Pakistan need to become governed by the same Progressive political system much like how pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were governed by the Ba'ath movement yet remained two independent republics.

(b). The LoC should be converted into an International Border passable by passport for reasons of trade, tourism and family visits.

(c). This way the Kashmiris will see that there is no point in continuing militancy, whether with guns or with stones, because both sides have a Progressive system that will be of their benefit and they will lose it if they continue militancy.

(d). This will stop most of the militancy within the Kashmir Valley. The militancy that will remain will be of the terrorist type and that can be resolved as a common problem of both India and Pakistan.

(e). Parallely, both India and Pakistan will also benefit as a whole.​

If the above solution ( there may be others by others ) is not applied, Kashmir will not see peace for the next 20 years, 30 years or more.

But you tell me, if the above solution is not the right one, which is ?? How will you convince them that they are like people of any state in India ??

 

[Pakistani E]

I agree completely. No external party can influence us on Kashmir. It is not their business.

The great Chaanakya has given 4 steps to resolve any issue

Saam - Talks
Daam - Rewards
Dand - Punishment
Bhed - Coercion

We already did lot of talking, we spent disproportionate amount of money on Kashmir but they kept on causing trouble. Now is time for dand with the Internet shutdown and jailing of stone pelters and their leaders and freezing of bank accounts. It seems to be working now as violence has almost come down to zero. We don't want to go to 4th step but are willing to do it if necessary.

Yes, thank you for presenting RSS/BJP point of view. I am already aware of this. I have little to say to you folks. My posts were directed towards the few remaining Indians who care about human rights and want to resolve issues with as less loss of lives as possible.

Your talk of 4th step is hilarious though, so couldn't help but mention it. Tell that to the thousands Kashmiri civilians already dead and buried, and the victims of rape by Indian soldiers. Please, do not claim any moral high ground. Petty nationalism/religious extremism is what you are fighting for. That's all it is.

So what is the solution to the Kashmir question ?? How long will that region be under military suppression ( there are said to be 700,000 armed personnel there ) ??

Do you see a solution in the next 10 or 20 years ??

@Sher Shah Awan

This person that you quoted has presented the view of India in my opinion. Of the government, and most likely most of the public. There will never be peace in such a condition. I am pro peace too to a certain extent, but if India does not wish to come to the table and continues towards destroying Kashmiri identity, do not expect there to be peace.

 

[langda khan]

I am not Right-leaning yet I believe that the Kashmiri Pandits should be allowed to return to their Kashmiri homeland. Part of the problems in the Kashmir valley will end.

Allowed?

Wow.

 

[jamahir]

There is no negotiation with such aggressors. There is no reasoning or truth and reconciliation with folks who wish to eradicate their enemy. Hindutva is a simplistic childish philosophy that reduces the world to Hindutva and existential threats to Hindutva.

Was going through this thread of mine from 2.5 years ago and found your above text which has been proved true now. Only last month Amit Shah being the Home Minister imposed on the country by the BJP went to Kashmir and declared that : (a). His government will never talk to Pakistan, (b). Modi Model for Kashmir is of employment and brotherhood ( LOL, does he remember the various genocide-chanting Dharam Sansads of his Hindutvadi gangs since December 2021 and Modi's unfulfilled 2014 electoral promise to provide 20 million jobs in India every year ? ), (c). Kashmir will be "the most peaceful region in India" which means continued military occupation there and complete disregard to political, social and socio-economic disharmony in the rest of the country.

I find your explanation of the worldview of Hindutva discerning.

Allowed?

Wow.

What word would you have preferred me using ?

 

[langda khan]

What word would you have preferred me using ?

Not allowed.

No one gets to allow any Indian from going and working and living anywhere in India.

Are you really Indian or a false flag?

 

[AlKardai]

Was going through this thread of mine from 2.5 years ago and found your above text which has been proved true now. Only last month Amit Shah being the Home Minister imposed on the country by the BJP went to Kashmir and declared that : (a). His government will never talk to Pakistan, (b). Modi Model for Kashmir is of employment and brotherhood ( LOL, does he remember the various genocide-chanting Dharam Sansads of his Hindutvadi gangs since December 2021 and Modi's unfulfilled 2014 electoral promise to provide 20 million jobs in India every year ? ), (c). Kashmir will be "the most peaceful region in India" which means continued military occupation there and complete disregard to political, social and socio-economic disharmony in the rest of the country.

I find your explanation of the worldview of Hindutva discerning.



What word would you have preferred me using ?

Not allowed.

No one gets to allow any Indian from going and working and living anywhere in India.

Are you really Indian or a false flag?

Normal Indian vs Indian Hindutva

 

[langda khan]

Normal Indian vs Indian Hindutva

Son you never reverted to my reply on running.

 

[jamahir]

Not allowed.

No one gets to allow any Indian from going and working and living anywhere in India.

I agree, no one should dictate where one Indian lives anywhere in India or shouldn't live and this was the intent of my post. This thread is from two years ago and I simply desired for Kashmiri Muslims to enable more Kashmiri Pandits to live and prosper in Kashmir. And either 1000+ Pandits or 1000+ Pandit families did start to live there since or maybe it was even before 2020 but this year seems to have started many targeted killings by militants - 27 victims by October and include 18 Muslims including Amreen Bhat a TV actress, singer and SM poster, then a female Sikh school principal, a Pandit teacher both in the same school. These killings started a fear among those Pandits and they declared their intention to leave. About two or so families left too. But this isn't the fault of the Kashmiri Muslims, indeed when that dishonest and poison-spreader film The Kashmir Files was released many Kashmiri Pandits refused to lay blame on most of the Kashmiri Muslims and denounced the film.

And I now turn to Delhi where only last month the BJP member of parliament, Parvesh Verma, stood in an open ground and misused the unfortunate and criminal murder of a Dalit youth from a few days prior and called for total boycott of Muslims including socio-economic - the working that you mention. The murderers of the Dalit youth were Muslim but this wasn't a religion-based murder but the murderers were anti-socials who had snatched the youth's phone and stabbed him but he survived and was going to testify in court but those criminals and their friends were threatening him and his family to withdraw from the court but decided to murder him. Now if one looks at the CCTV stills of the murder scene the crime is being committed in an alley near the gate and there is a man seated on a chair almost outside the gate. As the criminals kept stabbing the youth the seated man remained seated, not moving at all to help the youth. This unfortunate crime wasn't a religious crime and happened because of the Capitalist, dog-eat-dog, violent and chaotic nature of Indian society where people are ready to kill another human for a few rupees more. So instead of blaming the Indian socio-economic and social systems the BJP leaders created a religious crime out of this crime of callous and senseless money-earning by poor people who happened to be Muslims and the BJP leaders and other Hindutvadis called it a work of "Jihadis" and all. Watch what Parvesh Verma says :

Read the shameful comments by Hindutvadis in the comments section, supporting these vile, anti-human words of Parvesh Verma. And this is the same Parvesh Verma who along with two other BJP leaders, Kapil Mishra and Anurag Thakur, who initiated the anti-Muslim violence in Delhi in early 2020 and are still not punished.

Normal Indian vs Indian Hindutva

Unpleasant situation.

Son you never reverted to my reply on running.

Why do you use this pompous word "Son" ? Are you American, because it is from their culture ?

 

[Ghazwa-e-Hind]

Thread opener seems like a BJP IT cell account.

@Areesh was right

 

[langda khan]

I agree, no one should dictate where one Indian lives anywhere in India or shouldn't live and this was the intent of my post. This thread is from two years ago and I simply desired for Kashmiri Muslims to enable more Kashmiri Pandits to live and prosper in Kashmir. And either 1000+ Pandits or 1000+ Pandit families did start to live there since or maybe it was even before 2020 but this year seems to have started many targeted killings by militants - 27 victims by October and include 18 Muslims including Amreen Bhat a TV actress, singer and SM poster, then a female Sikh school principal, a Pandit teacher both in the same school. These killings started a fear among those Pandits and they declared their intention to leave. About two or so families left too. But this isn't the fault of the Kashmiri Muslims, indeed when that dishonest and poison-spreader film The Kashmir Files was released many Kashmiri Pandits refused to lay blame on most of the Kashmiri Muslims and denounced the film.

And I now turn to Delhi where only last month the BJP member of parliament, Parvesh Verma, stood in an open ground and misused the unfortunate and criminal murder of a Dalit youth from a few days prior and called for total boycott of Muslims including socio-economic - the working that you mention. The murderers of the Dalit youth were Muslim but this wasn't a religion-based murder but the murderers were anti-socials who had snatched the youth's phone and stabbed him but he survived and was going to testify in court but those criminals and their friends were threatening him and his family to withdraw from the court but decided to murder him. Now if one looks at the CCTV stills of the murder scene the crime is being committed in an alley near the gate and there is a man seated on a chair almost outside the gate. As the criminals kept stabbing the youth the seated man remained seated, not moving at all to help the youth. This unfortunate crime wasn't a religious crime and happened because of the Capitalist, dog-eat-dog, violent and chaotic nature of Indian society where people are ready to kill another human for a few rupees more. So instead of blaming the Indian socio-economic and social systems the BJP leaders created a religious crime out of this crime of callous and senseless money-earning by poor people who happened to be Muslims and the BJP leaders and other Hindutvadis called it a work of "Jihadis" and all. Watch what Parvesh Verma says :

Read the shameful comments by Hindutvadis in the comments section, supporting these vile, anti-human words of Parvesh Verma. And this is the same Parvesh Verma who along with two other BJP leaders, Kapil Mishra and Anurag Thakur, who initiated the anti-Muslim violence in Delhi in early 2020 and are still not punished.



Unpleasant situation.



Why do you use this pompous word "Son" ? Are you American, because it is from their culture ?

Again a wall of text.

 

[jamahir]

Thread opener seems like a BJP IT cell account.

@Areesh was right

LOL.

But I agree, Areesh the Gay Mullah is Right. Right wing.

Again a wall of text.

That "wall of text" is not even half a webpage. And seems you have never read a book. But since you are impatient read and watch this speech from the same event, this time BJP leader Nand Kishore Gurjar admitting to participating in the anti-Muslim violence in Delhi in early 2020 and promising to repeat and he also calling the lynched Akhlaq as a pig and then castigating the Communists and other progressives ( in his words "The intolerance crowd" ).

This is just the regular "Bharat Mata ki jai" and "Jai Shri Ram" crowd.